Continuing work on CoG invasion plan

This thread is for the minutia and detailed work of the invasion plans for the attack/defense for the upcoming war with C3B. All suggestions, discussions, arguments are to be limited to tactical and construction statements ONLY!!!!

AM I GETTING THROUGH TO YOU GUYS? PROVO, MAGNUS, EMP, CROXIS, LOGICSEQUENCE?

Ok, enough said. Now...we will do all refinements, adjustments, etc. here. I can't do screenies because my idiotic computer won't do them. If someone would post a clean screen of the target area, that would be greatly appreciated, so that we could all refer to it .

Rcoutme, I promise to stick to Civ3 specifics, now that the poll is passed.

City of God Take IV

We are at turn 115, and the Brazucan Peace ends 127, right after our first election at turn 125, and we now have a long term plan, with 11 against 3 votes, simple 2/3 majority). This will set the initiation of the plan at turn 130, and landing at turn 141.

As Thunderfall and Cheetahpolis got more than 6 pop at the time of the invasion, thanks to rivers, and we certainly have 4 more cities at that time, we can maintain 50 units for free at that point.

Target OOB: 90 Units towards target period 135-145

15 Galleys INVASION (12 short)
9 Ancient Cavalry (3 projected) INVASION
14 Warriors ( requires a 840 Gold Upgrade to Swordsmen) INVASION

1 Catapults (1 short) INVASION
4 Javelineers INVASION
10 Horsemen (10 short) DEFENSE/DECOY
10 Swords (Built 135-145) DEFENSE/OFFENSE

10 Spearmen (4 Short) DEFENSE
10 Workers DEFENSE

We need to build 34 new units in 20 turns time to make this plan work.
This also means 50 gold in upkeep per turn, so our science will suffer badly in
the period 135-142, when the completion of the Forbidden Palace wil reduce corruption and waste tremendously. Most defense units built to cover KD and Kamina as well as our Northcoast will be built in this period. However, as we incur losses on them and take own losses, and take their cities, our income will increase from turn 145 onwards. Turn 135-145 will require max gold and luxury for a transition period, until Forbidden Palace is complete.

However, this plan will only require the following cities full dedication:

Charnel, Ryttyla and Savannah for Galleys (11)
Fanatazuma , Borodino, Cheetahpolis for horsemen, spearmen, warriors, catapults (17), add other cities in to assist
Kamina: Build one galley after harbor

Zoi will be kept for settlers, Thunderfall for FP and Ferrania for general development. 2 Zoi settlers to be used in invasion.

Also notice we need gold for investigating 2-3 cities prior to attack.

Galley Production

Charnel* grows next turn, use forest for two more shields

115-119, 119-123, 123-127 all deployed at departure point by 130.

3 Galleys

Savannah, one garrison short, send spear from Fanatazuma

115-119, 119-124, 124-129,

3 Galleys

Ryttyla
115-118, 118-121, 121-124, 124-127, 127-130

5 Galleys

Starting number of Galleys:

NE Galley, poised to pick up 2 JT in DMZ
Iron Island Galley Settler Ferry
Ryttyla Galley

Projected number of Galleys ready to depart turn 131: 15

Force Composition, base 15 Galleys.

NE DMZ Galley: 2 Javelineers (jumps on en route)
4 Zeus Galleys: 9 Ancient Cavalry, Settler (6 present, 3 projected, 1 needs to jump on en route)
Javelineer Galley 2: 2 Javelineers
9 Swordsman Galleys: 14 Swordsmen/1 Catapult

Total Invasion Force: 30 Units, 14 Swords/9 Mounted/4 Javelins/1 Catapults, 2 settlers

Note that the above plan is for a smaller force and an earlier attack. This is an alternate to the original plan...thus allowing the flexibility to decide which way we want to proceed.

Once the turn gets in, which hopefully happens today later on, we can work out with figures and builds further just to make sure.

rcoutme said:

AM I GETTING THROUGH TO YOU GUYS? PROVO, MAGNUS, EMP, CROXIS, LOGICSEQUENCE?

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Hey what did I do

The file has been forwarded. Please everyone involved open it and do the estimates.

A few comments regarding the builds after playing the turn:

1) Why we need one catapult? Don't understand. IMO, we don't need this stuff. It works only in large numbers.

2) Re Charnel: Last galley will not get there is time. Also, the city cannot make it to size 6 without luxury slider to 20% hence is stuck at 4 spt and galley builds take 7 turns not 5 like in the plan.

3) Re Savannah: Spear has been dispatched to Khazad instead, Savannah has to cope with regWarrior as MP. OK but galleys have to be part-rushed since city is in 7spt atm.

4) Re Rytty: makes 10 spt hence can build galleys every 3 turns not like 4 in the plan.

5) We cannot have 15 galleys ready as per schedule, it will be 12 maximum.

6) The plan basically and substantially ignores military police issue to a certain extent except for CoMA comments. Also, seems that upgrading warriors, especially regulars, to swords is a bit vague. We can be better off partially cash-rushing veteran swords. Also, some warriors will be required to block the coastal tiles near Unlucky Harbor.

Turn 118
By my calculations: assuming Provo's above figures
We have: 5 Galleys--we would still need 10
Warriors: 18 -- need 14 for invasion upgraded?
Spears: 6--need 4
JT: 4 done
AC: 7--need 2--they come automatically
Workers: 11--1 over (although some are captured and therefore not as good as our own)
Swordsmen: 0 -- need 10 (to be built 135-145 anyways)
horsemen: 0 -- need 10
Settlers: 0 -- need 2

Ryttyla and Savannah are in galley production to maximum. Ryttyla gives one every 3 turns, Savannah every 5 turns (although we can pay to rush on 4th). This means that Ryttyla can produce (by turn 130) 4 more. Savannah can produce 3 (if we rush).

This would leave us 3 Galleys short. Unlucky harbor can be switched from spearman to galley. It can be modified to give 2 spt (giving the galley in 8 turns), however the galley would have to find its way to the other forces. Alternately, some of the shields could be rushed. Charnel will finish its settler in 2 turns. It can then be switched to galley, however, I do not think we will get more than one galley out of there by turn 130. Kamina will finish its harbor in 6 turns and will expand at the same time. It produces 4 spt. It may be able to get up to 5 spt after expansion. This might allow it to produce the last needed galley.


The capital, Fantazuma, can not get 15 spt until another mine is produced (5 turns from now) unless Ryttyla is reduced in spt. This means that it produces horsemen 1/3 turns. Thus, it will produce 5 horsemen in the time allotted. Borodino is getting 6 spt. It will finish a spearman in 2 turns and then can produce horsemen 1/5 turns. This would give us 2 horsemen.

We will have only 7 horsemen and not enough cash for upgrades nor enough troops for protection of homeland under these conditions.

Or and Emp will each produce a warrior (provided that the game does not auto-change them to swords) in 7 turns. Coba (on iron island but not in the trade network) will produce a warrior in 3. Dzib. will build a worker in 6 and expands in 3. Duck Pond will build a spearman in 19 and expands in 1 turn. Zoi will produce a settler in 4 turns and expands in 4 turns (provided Akots remembers to make them happy...sorry that I forgot to mention that one Alex )

So...this current plan can not kick off on schedule, as far as I can tell. What do we want to do about this?

Most of your calculation are correct. We are short in many parameters for the plan. There is a cash reserve or 500g. We can spend it by part-rushing units and galleys. For example, Savannah has 7spt. After first turn production, there 7 s are rushed to 10 s worker paying 12g which gives galley in 4 instead of 5 turns. Same goes for any build in the capital. We can have first 10 s there, then rush a spearman for 40g and then switch to horsemen ready in 2 turns instead of 3. The main problem is that we don't have enough workers to be able to catch up with the agricultural high-rate growth of cities. Many tiles are not improved especially with regard to mining and roading hills and mountains. This is due to the industrious trait greatly weakened in C3C compared to PTW or vanilla. Well, obviously, Maya is not the best choice of civ but we have to cope with what we have. Also, having only one source of luxury does not help at all.

To be honest, we cannot seriously count on meeting the requirements for the plan. We either have to wait (while C3B also builds up and acquires new techs) or have to start the assault with whatever we will have on hand.

Also, I would say that decreasing science rate does not help much. It would only give something about 30gpt which is not worth it apparently.

I was given very thight deadlines and target production quotas in setting up this plan, so only use it as benhmarking for the major operation. Remember I asked for turn 135 as departure, but our COMA asked for an acceleration. If Emps intelligence is correct, we can still leave at 135 and make it.

Provolution said:

I was given very thight deadlines and target production quotas in setting up this plan, so only use it as benhmarking for the major operation. Remember I asked for turn 135 as departure, but our COMA asked for an acceleration. If Emps intelligence is correct, we can still leave at 135 and make it.

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I would like to know the source of Emps intel. Perhaps it is disinformation? I expect them to attack much sooner.

It would be quite possible that they attack sooner. Why not?

Then there is no reason to delay, accellerate the plan if you believe so.
If you are so certain about the plan going on so soon, why don't you Embassy and Investigate them. That is all you need, above speculating and complaining about the plan.

Provolution said:

Then there is no reason to delay, accellerate the plan if you believe so.
If you are so certain about the plan going on so soon, why don't you Embassy and Investigate them. That is all you need, above speculating and complaining about the plan.

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Whose complaining??? I can't speculate??? Why do you think I'm running for embassador??? Stop trying to bait me.

MM, I meant the Civ3 mechanism of Shift E, for Embassy and Espionage, where we we pay some gold for an Embassy, and investigate San Luis and Fortaleza, possibly also Rio.

I am not trying to bait you. That you are running for Ambassador is a totally different debate. However, invalidating intelligence we got based on election campaign criteria is not always the best way to go, you should consult FA and EMP in order to determine if his intelligence hold any water, then possible use the Embassy function.

Besides MM, being against the invasion plan makes you non-representative to what we seek to achieve, namely an invasion and a military win sooner than later.

Provolution said:

Besides MM, being against the invasion plan makes you non-representative to what we seek to achieve, namely an invasion and a military win sooner than later.

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Just because I don't fully endorse your plan doesn't mean I don't favor attacking c3b. Stop trying to pin me as a pacifist. I was advocating attacking c3b when everyone else was all wrapped up in the "alliance"

MM

I suggest you present your qualities as a candidate in the nomination and election debate thread, and I hope you contribute to planning in this thread, not using this as a personal platform for your campaign. This thread is for the war-planning, to come with constructive ideas on how to conduct it, not speculate or spread doubt about politics.

Provolution said:

MM

I suggest you present your qualities as a candidate in the nomination and election debate thread, and I hope you contribute to planning in this thread, not using this as a personal platform for your campaign. This thread is for the war-planning, to come with constructive ideas on how to conduct it, not speculate or spread doubt about politics.

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I am not presenting my qualities as a candidate here. I am not using this as a personal platform for a campaign. I simply stated it was possible that we were giving disinformation as to when c3b will attack thus throwing off the timeline in this plan. Why should I not post that in this thread? Stop trying to portray me as a troll... How can add constructive ideas if you attack everything I post?