Successful Counterreformation and its effects upon affected states

Domen, that's my point - she wasn't, she was hugely driven by her Catholicism. So you need to distinguish between 'Catholics' who act in this way and 'Catholics' who do not if you're going to actually understand. Specifically, you need to work out whether the operative factor is Catholicism or something else.
 
Was Mary Tudor really a relatively sane and secular ruler ??? I've heard other things about her. Protestant propaganda? :)
Insofar as she's painted as being any more ruthless or bloody-handed than her contemporaries, yes.
 
Another effect of the success of Counterreformation in Poland was Germanization of previously Polish-speaking Protestants (due to the fact that they were "cut off" from cultural centers of their religion using Polish language, as those centers - located mostly in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth - declined).

That was visible in mixed Polish-German border regions with large numbers of Polish-speaking Protestants - East Prussia (Ducal Prussia), Silesia (Lower & Upper), Pomerelia (Royal / West Prussia), Pomerania (here Kashubian - a Slavic language closely related to Polish), Greater Poland. Władysław Chojnacki wrote an article "Zbory Polsko-Ewangelickie w byłych Prusach Wschodnich w XVI-XX w." ("Polish-Evangelical Communities in former East Prussia in 16th-20th c.").

He found the following number of Protestant communities in Ducal Prussia (later East Prussia) in which Polish was the language of church service:

a) 16th century - 260 Polish-Evangelical communities in East Prussia (100%)

b) year 1901 - 129 Polish-Evangelical communities in East Prussia (49,6%)

Speed of Germanization of Protestants in East Prussia intensified especially after 1850, when it was most affected by Prussian policies. Counterreformation can't be entirely blamed for that, but it was one of major factors (together with the Partitions, the rise of nationalisms*, and Prussian anti-Polish policies).

*Most of Protestant Mazurs from East Prussia - despite being speakers of Polish language - became more influenced by German nationalism than by Polish.

As the result the number of Mazurs was declining as they were gradually abandoning also their Polish language and therefore becoming Germans.

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Exactly the same thing - Germanization - happened to most of Protestant Lithuanians who inhabited Klein Litauen - eastern part of East Prussia.

Klein Litauen was defined as territory in East Prussia inhabited by Lithuanian-speaking majority, therefore its boundaries were fluent.

Originally Klein Litauen (Lithuania Minor) encompassed more than half (over 8,000 km2) of what is now Kaliningrad Oblast of Russia.

Later - as Germanization of Prussian Lithuanians progressed - that territory was gradually shrinking, especially fast during the 1800s.

Shortly before World War 1 territories with Lithuanian-speaking majority encompassed perhaps already only Memelland (Klaipeda Region).

Counterreformation in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was also a major factor in Germanization of Protestant Lithuanians in East Prussia.

In case of Lithuanian Prussians that Germanization was actually much faster - at least during the 1800s - than in case of Polish Mazurs.

That was caused by fact that most of Lithuanian elites became Polonized, so there remained not enough activists to support the cause of preserving Lithuanian language and establishing Lithuanian national identity among Prussian Lithuanians (in case of Mazurs, such Pro-Polish activists - both those who were local Mazurs from East Prussia and their followers living across the border in Congress Poland, in Mazovia - existed and actively promoted "the Polish option").
 
That's funny, coming from a Briton.
There is that, although in fairness the Anglicans had their act together enough by the 19th century that there was at least a baseline of shared doctrine and rite. With the Prussian Union, you're looking at two entirely different churches being jammed together by royal decree, resulting in a church with very little identity beyond the fact of its Protestantism.
 
Regarding Mazurs:

Mazurs are an ethnographic group of Polish people, who lived in Mazovia (where they originally came from), East Prussia, Podlachia, Sudovia, Belarus and Lithuania (as the result of Mazur colonization). All of Mazurs in East Prussia (Ducal Prussia) were Protestants, while most of them in other regions - Catholics.

Mazurs were probably the most expansive of historical ethnographic groups of Polish people.

Here is a map showing the expansion of Mazur (aka Mazovian) settlement, occurring since the 13th century (and also earlier but on a smaller scale):

Spoiler :

And here is a map which shows a comparison of modern Polish borders with old administrative divisions of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in 1619 (but only those administrative divisions of the Commonwealth in its borders from 1619, which are still within the modern borders of Poland):

Spoiler :


LEGEND:

Royal Prussia:

Pom = Pomerelia (Pomerelian Voivodeship + vassal areas: Lands of Lębork and Bytów)
Malb = Malbor Voivodeship
Wm = Duchy of Warmia
Chł = Land of Chełmno

Greater Poland (with Cuiavia, Land of Sieradz and Land of Łęczyca):

Poz = Poznan Voivodeship ---> Greater Poland "proper"
Kal = Kalisz Voivodeship ---> Greater Poland "proper"

In = Inowrocław Voivodeship (without Land of Dobrzyn) ---> Cuiavia
Brz = Brzesc Kujawski Voivodeship ---> Cuiavia
Sier = Sieradz Voivodeship ---> Land of Sieradz
Łcz = Łęczyca Voivodeship ---> Land of Łęczyca

Mazovia (with Land of Dobrzyn, without Podlachia):

Db = Land of Dobrzyn (without Land of Michalow which was transferred to Land of Chelmno)
Pł = Plock Voivodeship
Ra = Rawa Voivodeship
Maz = Mazovian Voivodeship


Podlachia:

Pod = Podlachian Voivodeship

Lesser Poland

Kr = Cracow Voivodeship (plus Silesian Duchy of Siewierz in the west - light bronze)
San = Sandomierz Voivodeship
L = Lublin Voivodeship

Red Ruthenia (only this part of historical Red Ruthenia which still belongs to Poland today)

Ru = Ruthenian Voivodeship (without Duchy of Chelm)
B = Belz Voivodeship
Ch = Duchy of Chelm

Other lands:

Grand Duchy of Lithuania:

Polesia (Pls) - Brest-Litovsk Voivodeship (only this part which still belongs to Poland)
Tr - western part of Troki Voivodeshop (borderland of historical Black Ruthenia, Dzukija and Sudovia)

Ducal Prussia:

Mazury - Mazuria (together with Upper Prussia and part of Powiśle region)

Add to this also Upper and Lower Silesia, Land of Lubusz (small region located between Silesia and Pomerania, to the west of Great Poland - sometimes counted as part of Greater Poland) and Pomerania (aka Western Pomerania), which were outside of the political borders of Poland in 1619, but which used to be historically Polish lands during the Middle Ages.

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I added colours, descriptions and arrows to those maps posted above, but I found the "blank map" with borders somewhere in this thread:

http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=25312

Very useful thread.
 
The creation of the so called "Polish strip in Lithuania" - areas with Polish settlement in what is now Lithuanian-Belarusian borderland as well as southern part of Latvia (yes - there historically was and still is some Polish minority in Latvia) was precisely the result of that expansion of Mazur settlement AND of Polonization of local people (Lithuanians, Belarusians / Ruthenians, Germans from the region of Polish Livonia - today southern Latvia) by expanding Mazurs.

Mazur settlement in East Prussia was both spontaneuous and planned - they both naturally migrated into that area, and were also invited to settle there, at first by Teutonic Knights, then by Albrecht Hohenzollern. There were also Protestant religious refugees from Mazovia escaping there in the 1600s.

Mazurs who settled in southern part of East Prussia (Ducal Prussia) assimilated local Baltic-speakers - Old Prussians - and mixed with them.

Later after the secularization of Ducal Prussia (in 1525) by Albrecht Hohenzollern, Mazurs who lived there converted to Protestantism.

On the other hand, following the Counterreformation (1600s) Mazurs who remained across the border - in Mazovia - became overwhelmingly Catholic.

Many Lithuanian Grand Dukes also invited Mazurs to settle in their lands following the Union of Krewo in 1385 and in further centuries.

For some reason this Polish Mazur settlement is often overlooked, and nobody knows about it - while everyone knows about German "Ostsiedlung".

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Polish settlement in Red Ruthenia - nowadays South-Eastern Poland and Western Ukraine - was of course not the result of Mazur expansion.

That was the result of expansion of primarily Lesser Polish settlement. It started on a large scale roughly during the 13th century as well.

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"Polish strip in Lithuania" (its modern state - before WW1 and WW2 both its extent was larger and % of Poles among its total population was much higher):

Spoiler :



And here only the "Lithuanian" part of this strip can be seen (because the "Belarusian" part is included in "Slavicised" areas - both Belarusians and Poles speak Slavic languages so when Poles settle in Belarusian lands or when Belarusians become Polonized, it makes no difference from this perspective). Note that this map shows the modern northern boundary of this "strip" of Polonized areas, because Vilnius is not marked as part of it (and prior to WW2 Wilno was in great majority Polish-speaking, as well as in general historically - before WW1 and before WW2 - this Polish-speaking area was much larger):



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When it comes to Lithuania Minor (Klein Litauen) in East Prussia:

Here a map showing linguistic composition of North-Eastern part of Ducal Prussia in the 16th century, during the Protestant Reformation:

We can also see also areas with majority of Old Prussian language speakers in Sambia - to the north of Konigsberg (Karaliaučius):

 
Analphabetism per 1000 population (as well as per 1000 men and 1000 women) around year 1900:

Country - men / women / total (year of data)

1) Mostly Orthodox countries / regions:

Serbia - 662 / 926 / 790 (1900)
Russia - 616 / 831 / 724 (1897)
European Russia (without Congress Poland) - 572 / 824 / 702 (1897)
Romania - 458 / 767 / 606 (1909)

Average: 705.5

2) Mostly Catholic countries / regions:

Brazil - 808 / 896 / 852 (1900)
Mexico - 776 / 828 / 802 (1900)
Portugal - 608 / 774 / 697 (1911)
Spain - 558 / 714 / 638 (1900)
Congress Poland - 550 / 648 / 599 (1897)
Italy - 428 / 505 / 467 (1911)
Argentina - 307 / 354 / 329 (1914)
Ireland - 90 / 94 / 92 (1911)

Average: 559.5

3) Religiously mixed (including atheism) countries / regions:

Canada* - 680 / 830 / 750 (1916)
Hungary - 281 / 383 / 339 (1910)
Galicia - 248 / 314 / 282 (1910)
Austria - 261 / 212 / 187 (1910)
Belgium - 126 / 150 / 138 (1910)
France - 109 / 143 / 126 (1911)
Prussia** - 95 / 147 / 121 (1871)

Average: 277.6

*But IIRC around half of Canadians were Catholics (and many of Non-Catholic illiterates were most probably Native Americans).
**Majority in Prussia were Protestants but I have no exact data at hand. Catholics were majority of Poles and some Germans.

4) Mostly Protestant countries / regions:

Australia - ??? / ??? / 155 (1911)
Finland - 75 / 69 / 71 (1910)
Estonia - 64 / 58 / 61 (1881)
USA (Whites) - 50 / 49 / 50 (1910)
USA (Blacks) - 301 / 307 / 304 (1910)

Average: 128.2

As you can see the only Catholic country with low level of analphabetism was Ireland.

And that's obviously only thanks to British (= Protestant) occupation and existence of English schools.

But the price Irish people paid for compulsory education in English, was forgetting Irish language.

Similar situation was in Prussian-controlled areas with Polish population where education was compulsory, but also in German language.

In Poznan Province religion was in Polish* (other subjects were in German), while for example in Upper Silesia all subjects were in German.

*When Prussian authorities attempted to abolish also religion in Polish (and to replace it by religion in German), school strikes started:

https://www.google.pl/search?q=Wrze...hannel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=WBasU-uOGsOg8we5pIGoDg

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Source of data in this post:

Ignacy Weinfeld, "Rocznik Polski 1922", 2nd edition, published by Książnica Polska T.S.N.W., Warsaw-Lwow 1922.
 
Excerpt from an essay by Lithuanian historian Zenonas Norkus, "The Grand Duchy of Lithuania in the Retrospective of Comparative Historical Sociology of Empires":

(...) The border line between the GDL’s metropole and periphery remained sufficiently clearly expressed during all the existence of the GDL. The metropole comprised the areas with paganism, and later – Catholicism, as dominating religion (not only among elite). (...) Religion drew a clear line
between the Catholic elite of the metropole and the local Orthodox elite of the periphery, including, from the middle of the 16th century, the Protestant Livonian elite. The precise localization of the metropole area of the GDL is the object of discussions. No wonder that Belarusian historians tend to move its eastern and western boundaries further to the East and to search for the nucleus of Mindaugas’ Lithuania in the Black Rus’. A similar tendency could be found in the works by Matvei Liubavski, who claimed that ‘Lithuanian dukes could get more support and instruments for their rule from Russian society than from Lithuanian society’.52 Writing about post-Vytautian Lithuania, the author identifies its metropolian area with the territories of Vilnius, Grodno, Minsk, Mogilev guberniyas of tsarist Russia as well as with the eastern part of the Kaunas guberniya. ‘This area was in a dominating position in the Lithuanian-Russian state. It was most densely populated and had the largest population. (...) The ruling Lithuanian elite did not assimilate the local elite, but was assimilated itself, which is characteristic of both barbarian kingdoms and ‘vulture empires’. This trend took an opposite direction after the Christianization of Lithuania, which initiated the Polonization of local Orthodox believers in the imperial periphery. The Polonization took place among Lithuanians as well, both in the periphery and the metropole (...) On the eve of the Union of Lublin, the Lithuanian magnates were more Polonized than the GDL’s nobility (...) In the case under consideration, the periphery, informal empire and hegemony sphere of the confederative Polish-Lithuanian state included at the end of the 16th century – 17th century Livonia, Eastern Prussia, and Ukraine. Political problems, which had been created by the Polish colonization of Ukraine, and the inability of the Republic of Two Nations to solve them, caused political and military catastrophe of the middle of the 17th century, after which the Republic was just an object of imperial expansion of neighboring countries, instead of being a self-assertive empire itself. The solution of Ukraine’s problem was complicated by the interpretation of the idea of ‘Antemurale Christianitatis’ (Bastion of Christianity), which became dominant in the Polish-Lithuanian state from the beginning of the 17th century. This idea was a united imperial project of the Polish-Lithuanian state which had to embody shared values, able to overcome the differences between peripheries and metropole. After the victory of the Counter-Reformation, ‘Christianity’ was identified with the Catholicism, and such interpretation of the imperial idea transformed it into a barrier to integrate the Orthodox periphery in the southeast. If the Reformation in the GDL had ended with the victory of Protestantism, the geopolitics of Eastern Europe could have acquired a different shape and the Republic of Two Nations could have to stand the attacks of Russia only. Now it had to fight Russia and Sweden, the Protestant Empire of Northern Europe in the 17th century. The Swedish attacks were caused not only by the conflict of interests in Livonia but also by the claims of the representatives of the Catholic branch of the Vasa dynasty, ruling as elected kings of the Polish-Lithuanian state, to the throne of Sweden, realization of which would have meant the arrival of Jesuits to Scandinavia. ‘Antemurale Christianitatis’ was the imperial project of the united Polish-Lithuanian state. Had the Gediminds’ or Jagiellonians’ Lithuania any similar project? The absence of such project makes the historians speak about the imperial character of the GDL with certain reservations. ‘It is true that we usually tend to think of empires as states with concentrated central power of monarch, which are able to impose their language, religion and even way of life on subordinated countries. This is not the feature of Lithuania during the reign of Gediminas and Algirdas. On the contrary, the Gediminds on thrones of annexed principalities tended to accept the Orthodox faith and even the language of the land’.76 We mentioned already the claims of the Gediminids to rule over all the territories inhabited by the Baltic tribes. But even if such ‘pan-Baltic’ imperial project had ever existed, it was already forgotten in the 15th century and remembered as ‘pure history’. The evidence, supporting such diagnosis, is the fact that the Lithuanian ruling elite never showed any attempts to exploit favorable conditions and to annex Prussian lands. When Lithuania annexed Livonia, this last victory of Lithuanian imperial expansion had nothing in common with the ‘pan-Baltic’ idea. ‘Lithuania annexed Livonia and not Latvia’.77 The idea of subordination of all Russian lands (testified by the historical documents from the reign of Algirdas) was more operative in practice. Suzerainty over these lands was claimed by the Golden Horde and Tatar political entities, therefore the GDL rulers thought that the necessary condition to subordinate Russian lands is to subordinate under Lithuanian hegemony part occupied by the Tatars. In the situation of threat from Lithuania, the princes of Moscow sought the assistance of the Tatar Khans. Lithuanian rulers concluded that the best way to subordinate Moscow was to have control over its suzerains. Such idea underscored the ‘grand strategy’ of Vytautian Eastern politics. It could even seem during the reign of Vytautas that the subordination of Russia was very close – with Vytautas’ grandson (Basil II) on the throne of Moscow it remained only to put under Lithuanian control the Tatar steppe, because otherwise the control of north-east Russia could be neither long-term nor stable. Subordination of all Russian lands is an imperial idea, which is typical of a ‘vulture empire’ and of certain species of ‘shadow empires’. They lack ‘soft’ power, i.e. power of cultural attraction. The aspirations of their ruling elites do not go beyond claims to be legitimate successors to certain political (imperial) or civilization tradition. The Gediminids claimed the inheritance of Kiev Russia. The success of their project would have meant that the inheritance of Kiev Russia is not divided among three nations of eastern Slavs, which emerged out of the Ruthenians because of the failure of the GDL’s imperial project. The differentiation of Belarus and Ukrainian ethnos is the most significant long term outcome of the GDL’s imperial expansion to the east. Such outcome was possible because Algirdas did not succeeded in crushing Moscow and Vytautas did not win at Vorskla. If the results of these fights had been different, Moscow would not have had the chance to become ‘the third Rome’, but Vilnius would have become ‘the second Kiev’. ‘Unification of western Russian lands around Lithuania was essentially the re-building of destroyed political unity of the Kiev epoch, the rediscovery of the lost political centre. The difference was only that because of the historical circumstances such centre was established at the Vilija river, and not at river of Dnepr, as it was in the end of the 9th century’.78 But the new centre did not become the ‘second Kiev’. Vilnius did not become the centre of rebuilt political unity of the Ruthenians but caused the division of the latter into separate nations of Belarusians and Ukrainians. Samuel Adrian M. Adshead gives a similar picture of geopolitical consequences of the possible success of imperial the GDL’s project: ‘Yet the Vorskla may have made a difference. If it had gone the other way, Vytautas might have separated from his cousin Wladyslaw of Poland, undone the union of Krevo, and reunited the Russians round Vilnius or Kiev rather than round Moscow’79 But the idea of S.A.M. Adshead that liquidation of Kreva Union was an inevitable result of Vorskla victory is untenable. Rus’ of the “Second Kiev” could have been different from the factual Muscovite Russia and from its predecessor Byzantine Russia of ‘the first Kiev’. To change Catholicism into Orthodox faith was not politically beneficial to Vytautas, because this would have provided the Teutonic Order with the necessary justification to continue the war against Lithuania. What is even more important, after the Christianization of the metropole, the subordination of all Russian lands did not exhaust the imperial project of the GDL. After Christianization, the latter could be described by the words which S.N. Eisenstadt wrote of empires, that ‘they have often embraced some wider, potentially universal political and cultural orientation that went beyond that of any of their component parts’80 The episode of Grigoryi Tsamblak during the second half of the reign of Vytautas, when the grand duke took care to both establish a separate province of the Lithuanian Orthodox Church and to unite it by the bonds of Church Union to the Roman Catholic Church, was not accidental. The success of such Unite Church was a key to the cohesion of the state during the existence of the Grand Duchy, and later – of the united Polish-Lithuanian state. In the 16-17th centuries, for representatives of local Ruthenian elite, to belong to Unite Orthodox meant the half-way on the way to Catholicism and the membership in Lithuanian nation of noblemen, which was a part of Polish macronation.81 The areas of the Polish Lithuanian state, where church union did not take roots, remained not-integrated into its political organism. The potential of the Union to perform such role was limited by Muscovite support to those Orthodox, who opposed the Union. Therefore the Union did not become a reservoir of resources of “soft power”. The Lithuanian dependence on Polish support to defend against Moscow was pre-determined by the failure of the GDL to subordinate the whole Rus’ under its political control. The success at this could have lead to the different role of the Union: something more than just a half-station for Orthodox Ruthenian nobles under way to become Polish speaking Catholic Lithuanians. Such Union of Orthodox and Catholic churches, and potentially – the synthesis of two cultural traditions (Byzantine-Russian and Western-Latin), could became the distinctive idea of the GDL empire. However, this idea was viable only if the GDL had submitted all Russian lands under its rule and had eliminated the forces, which had political interest in preservation of distinction of Orthodoxy. (...)
 
There is that, although in fairness the Anglicans had their act together enough by the 19th century that there was at least a baseline of shared doctrine and rite. With the Prussian Union, you're looking at two entirely different churches being jammed together by royal decree, resulting in a church with very little identity beyond the fact of its Protestantism.
Yes, my point was less about Anglicanism's particular broad range, as the fact that British official church, and the monarch's relation to it, is a Frankenstein combination of Anglicanism and Presbyterianism.
 
There is no doubt that this was (and to some extent still is) the stereotype of Bavarians in Protestant regions of Germany.

These stereotypes are still to some extent alive today, but now they are more like jokes, rather than real expressions of racist views.

I discussed with a German forumer who is from Northern (Protestant) Germany on another forum, and this is what he wrote:



And one German-speaking Lorrainer told me that both them (Lorrainers) and Poles fell victim to the same Protestant Prussian Imperialism.

Western Germany (including the disputed German-French region of Alsace-Lorraine) was also mostly Catholic, like Southern Germany.

Common ethnic slur againist Bohemians from Moravians and againist Czechs from Slovaks is "Švéd" (Swede in English) I think it came from countereformation (not sure, it also be because Czechs are cold or negative)
 
Yes, my point was less about Anglicanism's particular broad range, as the fact that British official church, and the monarch's relation to it, is a Frankenstein combination of Anglicanism and Presbyterianism.
That's true enough, but a Frankenstein is necessarily ambiguous. The Church of England is a bizarro hybrid with both archbishops and synods, but their relationships and doctrinal basis are all relatively clear, at least by Protestant standards. With the Prussian Union, nobody quite seemed to know who stood where or what they were supposed to believed, or who even had the right to decide any of those things. Low Church Anglicans are subject to bishops and Anglo-Catholics are subject to synods, but were Reformed Prussians subject to bishops or Luterhan Prussians subject to synods? Nobody quite seemed to know for sure. The structure of the Church of England is unusual but clear, but the the Prussian Union was just a mess.
 
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