r16
not deity
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2008
- Messages
- 11,217
what was broken was the man , not his faith .
tolkien would have been so ready to deny , so eager to reject . But he felt it wouldn't be right : He owed his wife life . What would happen to the love of his life when he said "No. And you can stuff it..." ? His mother had provided him a template of what to expect with her own suffering . Nothing could justify the repeat of all that . Bullying in England is reported to be an exalted form of art ; anybody who survives the schoolyard almost intact can be trusted to have iron nerves and well grounded principles that to keep for life and an instant readiness to fight to keep them for life . But then when the opposition gets to be a whole freaking intelligentsia or at least a substantial proportion of England's future opinion leaders one also has to learn to bite the bullet .
yes Sir , Tolkien was a Papist . He would bide his time . To throw the spanner to the works , to delay from inside . He thought quick and played the game . The messenger , a fellow from Oxford or something , but a few years senior as far as ı understand it , failed to see it in the wrecked shell of a man in front of him ; not everybody could be blessed with the stiff upper lip and to cap it Tolkien had seen "almost" no combat at all ... The fellow would be talking on how the Ancients would have no clue about the stresses and the needs of the modern life and Tolkien would be biting his lips ... It was 1917 and there was a Great War going on ...
it's of course somewhat related to Germany , this thing that initially got Tolkien into writing a whole new world and took a sliver of that here and there to be published as the Hobbit and the LotR ; to eventually win a whole literary fame that will take far too much abuse not to last .
what follows could be expected to raise a couple of eyebrows of any sane person with any kind of interest in history : Can almost hear the mutterings of "Denial of Agency" ... Well , Germany had coal and iron and they would set out to build the Ironworks , a whole lot of Ironworks ... Before Industrial Revolution the size of a country was quite relevant to its power , somewhat more than it's now . Factory production added a new dimension into the balance , those who didn't have the land could still have more guns and cannons to get the land from those who had it but lacked the factories . ı have seen it mentioned that France was a laggard in the whole of the Industrial Age , specifically when compared to the Great Britain and soon-to-follow US because a comparative absense of coal and iron deposits . Even more imposing must be the case of China , a titan of the world -before the Industrial Revolution- with finished iron production that simply dwarfed any competitor . Yet doomed to fail , simply because the Yellow River was so troublesome to travel on the sections that lied between the coal and the iron deposits . As England rose with vastly increased production followed closely by the Europeans who could , China quickly found itself surprassed . In the battles of the Opium War the Chinese would find their cannons to be useless in shore to ship duels not because they were morons that remained wed to a nostalgic fixation with their past but there was no way for them to finance the development of new armaments , let alone change the entire inventory of weapons in every decade or so . 1840s was a European victory , 1810s the entire continent would have failed to make a dent in the Chinese ... True or false ?
true or false , doesn't make much difference to the case at hand ... Germany had coal and iron , even more abundantly compared to Britain proper . Germany would become a major player . Big enough to be a threat to a country that took pride in that a quarter of any world map would be painted in the crimson that showed the British possessions . Back then war was as natural as the rain that rained and the sun that shined . There would be a war . London watched Germany thrashing France , knowing well Berlin would become the capital of a competitor that would be even more menacing than the archenemy of centuries , France . Of course any powerful Germany would find itself on a collusion course with Russia , which was proving to be a disturbing prospect for Britannia ruling the waves to cowe the world . Almost explains why the new German "Literature" had so ardent patrons from Britain ...
unfortunately nobody says "LOL what?" to me these days ... But then we in Turkey are living through another application of the same where the United States sold it to our newly elites that they would do so well , even rule the world with a fake anti-Semitism . When one gets into following conspiracies there is no end to the evilness and the power of those who "rule" the US behind the scenes ; a claim both their opponents and themselves foster relentlessly . It's with this world for such a long time , and remember ı am a guy who reads just one book in a given field and feels so ready to tackle the issues -so good for me that ı surely can't be playing this for keeps . Say , all the Muslims would be called Saracens before the Crusades or possibly at the time the Church -as in a West European setting- became aware of Islam . Neverminding no Muslim would be like using the term , the Europeans knew ... The Muslims were so big liars that they chose to hide their roots from Ishmail , son of Hagar who was a slave of Sarah :
The application of the blanket term “Saracen,” however, is a product of Western imagination. The Ishmaelites, Latin authors believed, desperately wished to conceal their base heritage. They wanted to pretend that they were not the illegitimate children of a slave. Hence, they called themselves the “Saracens,” the descendants of Sarah, rather than, more properly, the “Hagarenes.” One twelfth-century writer cautioned, “You should know and you ought never to doubt that these people, who take pride in their name, are not and never should be called Saracens. They are ‘Agarenes,’ and rightly named such.” Despite this warning, European writers by and large rejected “Agarene.” “Saracen” was simply too useful—by itself evidence of that faith’s base ancestry (Muslims were born of a slave), its illegitimacy (they were bastards), and its mendaciousness (they used their name to lie about it).
then some weird stuff on how Christianity was "some conspiracy" that usurped the Greco-Roman character of the biggest empire that the world knew at the time . The anti-Semitism is based on the success of Christianity itself , which must be the "single" thing taught to the nobles and the intelligentsia of the day , even if that "day" could be really measured by the millennia the Church ruled the West uncontested . Not much surprise in that a popular prophecy that boiled the blood of the first Crusaders was :
...the “King of the Greeks and Romans” will arise to conquer all of the kingdoms of the Christians, before taking his fight to the pagans. He will devastate their cities “and destroy the idols in their temples and call all the pagans to baptism, and in all their temples the cross of Jesus Christ will be raised. Whoever does not adore the cross will be punished with the sword, and after 120 years all the Jews will convert to the Lord, and his sepulcher will be made glorious.”
saracens are so easy , afterall . Consider the confusion of the poor feodal torn between the opposites of his training , the whole education he receives ... Bound to admire the glory of the Roman Empire for the laws that govern his life are from that glorious past , one look at the Roman ruins will raise doubts about his dwellings of straw huts and similar worthless structures . Even the paved road he walks on ... Not to mention that his King must claim descent from the said Romans one way or the other . This is Conspiracy , mon ami , don't look for sanity in it ... And then the Jews , who were utterly destroyed and dispersed by the glorious Romans and came back in the teachings of some poor fisherman or something whom the Jews took great care to kill ... If not alert , the Jews could come back . This being a tradition , the base the West was built on there is nothing exactly mysterious in the "new" that shook Germany while Bismarck was doing his best in order not to antagonize London .
a hate of industrialization and a desire for the countryside with a sprinkling of anti-Semitism ... Just par the course , if you will . For delaying factories and the like if possible . Chiefly through claims that the industrialists were straight Jews or Jews claiming to be Christians . With a stress on farming so that the farm owners , the landed gentry could be drafted in to oppose the factory builders with their wealth and existing power structures . As in Church and military hiearchy . So that the ways of the Old could be protected from the "dishonourable" ways of the new , the mockery and slurs from the industrialists . To cover it all a bit of new fangled German Nationalism ; this must not be unmasked as some British trick . Soon to be reinforced by Social Darwinists of all countries as a test environment , held tight under the unpriable vice of Prussian militarism ... With a staggeringly new thing , hostility to glorious Rome ... Blame the Darwinists for that .
tolkien would have been so ready to deny , so eager to reject . But he felt it wouldn't be right : He owed his wife life . What would happen to the love of his life when he said "No. And you can stuff it..." ? His mother had provided him a template of what to expect with her own suffering . Nothing could justify the repeat of all that . Bullying in England is reported to be an exalted form of art ; anybody who survives the schoolyard almost intact can be trusted to have iron nerves and well grounded principles that to keep for life and an instant readiness to fight to keep them for life . But then when the opposition gets to be a whole freaking intelligentsia or at least a substantial proportion of England's future opinion leaders one also has to learn to bite the bullet .
yes Sir , Tolkien was a Papist . He would bide his time . To throw the spanner to the works , to delay from inside . He thought quick and played the game . The messenger , a fellow from Oxford or something , but a few years senior as far as ı understand it , failed to see it in the wrecked shell of a man in front of him ; not everybody could be blessed with the stiff upper lip and to cap it Tolkien had seen "almost" no combat at all ... The fellow would be talking on how the Ancients would have no clue about the stresses and the needs of the modern life and Tolkien would be biting his lips ... It was 1917 and there was a Great War going on ...
it's of course somewhat related to Germany , this thing that initially got Tolkien into writing a whole new world and took a sliver of that here and there to be published as the Hobbit and the LotR ; to eventually win a whole literary fame that will take far too much abuse not to last .
what follows could be expected to raise a couple of eyebrows of any sane person with any kind of interest in history : Can almost hear the mutterings of "Denial of Agency" ... Well , Germany had coal and iron and they would set out to build the Ironworks , a whole lot of Ironworks ... Before Industrial Revolution the size of a country was quite relevant to its power , somewhat more than it's now . Factory production added a new dimension into the balance , those who didn't have the land could still have more guns and cannons to get the land from those who had it but lacked the factories . ı have seen it mentioned that France was a laggard in the whole of the Industrial Age , specifically when compared to the Great Britain and soon-to-follow US because a comparative absense of coal and iron deposits . Even more imposing must be the case of China , a titan of the world -before the Industrial Revolution- with finished iron production that simply dwarfed any competitor . Yet doomed to fail , simply because the Yellow River was so troublesome to travel on the sections that lied between the coal and the iron deposits . As England rose with vastly increased production followed closely by the Europeans who could , China quickly found itself surprassed . In the battles of the Opium War the Chinese would find their cannons to be useless in shore to ship duels not because they were morons that remained wed to a nostalgic fixation with their past but there was no way for them to finance the development of new armaments , let alone change the entire inventory of weapons in every decade or so . 1840s was a European victory , 1810s the entire continent would have failed to make a dent in the Chinese ... True or false ?
true or false , doesn't make much difference to the case at hand ... Germany had coal and iron , even more abundantly compared to Britain proper . Germany would become a major player . Big enough to be a threat to a country that took pride in that a quarter of any world map would be painted in the crimson that showed the British possessions . Back then war was as natural as the rain that rained and the sun that shined . There would be a war . London watched Germany thrashing France , knowing well Berlin would become the capital of a competitor that would be even more menacing than the archenemy of centuries , France . Of course any powerful Germany would find itself on a collusion course with Russia , which was proving to be a disturbing prospect for Britannia ruling the waves to cowe the world . Almost explains why the new German "Literature" had so ardent patrons from Britain ...
unfortunately nobody says "LOL what?" to me these days ... But then we in Turkey are living through another application of the same where the United States sold it to our newly elites that they would do so well , even rule the world with a fake anti-Semitism . When one gets into following conspiracies there is no end to the evilness and the power of those who "rule" the US behind the scenes ; a claim both their opponents and themselves foster relentlessly . It's with this world for such a long time , and remember ı am a guy who reads just one book in a given field and feels so ready to tackle the issues -so good for me that ı surely can't be playing this for keeps . Say , all the Muslims would be called Saracens before the Crusades or possibly at the time the Church -as in a West European setting- became aware of Islam . Neverminding no Muslim would be like using the term , the Europeans knew ... The Muslims were so big liars that they chose to hide their roots from Ishmail , son of Hagar who was a slave of Sarah :
The application of the blanket term “Saracen,” however, is a product of Western imagination. The Ishmaelites, Latin authors believed, desperately wished to conceal their base heritage. They wanted to pretend that they were not the illegitimate children of a slave. Hence, they called themselves the “Saracens,” the descendants of Sarah, rather than, more properly, the “Hagarenes.” One twelfth-century writer cautioned, “You should know and you ought never to doubt that these people, who take pride in their name, are not and never should be called Saracens. They are ‘Agarenes,’ and rightly named such.” Despite this warning, European writers by and large rejected “Agarene.” “Saracen” was simply too useful—by itself evidence of that faith’s base ancestry (Muslims were born of a slave), its illegitimacy (they were bastards), and its mendaciousness (they used their name to lie about it).
then some weird stuff on how Christianity was "some conspiracy" that usurped the Greco-Roman character of the biggest empire that the world knew at the time . The anti-Semitism is based on the success of Christianity itself , which must be the "single" thing taught to the nobles and the intelligentsia of the day , even if that "day" could be really measured by the millennia the Church ruled the West uncontested . Not much surprise in that a popular prophecy that boiled the blood of the first Crusaders was :
...the “King of the Greeks and Romans” will arise to conquer all of the kingdoms of the Christians, before taking his fight to the pagans. He will devastate their cities “and destroy the idols in their temples and call all the pagans to baptism, and in all their temples the cross of Jesus Christ will be raised. Whoever does not adore the cross will be punished with the sword, and after 120 years all the Jews will convert to the Lord, and his sepulcher will be made glorious.”
saracens are so easy , afterall . Consider the confusion of the poor feodal torn between the opposites of his training , the whole education he receives ... Bound to admire the glory of the Roman Empire for the laws that govern his life are from that glorious past , one look at the Roman ruins will raise doubts about his dwellings of straw huts and similar worthless structures . Even the paved road he walks on ... Not to mention that his King must claim descent from the said Romans one way or the other . This is Conspiracy , mon ami , don't look for sanity in it ... And then the Jews , who were utterly destroyed and dispersed by the glorious Romans and came back in the teachings of some poor fisherman or something whom the Jews took great care to kill ... If not alert , the Jews could come back . This being a tradition , the base the West was built on there is nothing exactly mysterious in the "new" that shook Germany while Bismarck was doing his best in order not to antagonize London .
a hate of industrialization and a desire for the countryside with a sprinkling of anti-Semitism ... Just par the course , if you will . For delaying factories and the like if possible . Chiefly through claims that the industrialists were straight Jews or Jews claiming to be Christians . With a stress on farming so that the farm owners , the landed gentry could be drafted in to oppose the factory builders with their wealth and existing power structures . As in Church and military hiearchy . So that the ways of the Old could be protected from the "dishonourable" ways of the new , the mockery and slurs from the industrialists . To cover it all a bit of new fangled German Nationalism ; this must not be unmasked as some British trick . Soon to be reinforced by Social Darwinists of all countries as a test environment , held tight under the unpriable vice of Prussian militarism ... With a staggeringly new thing , hostility to glorious Rome ... Blame the Darwinists for that .