Breakdown of American horse rush

I just wanted some clarification on the horse rush as I am a relatively new player.

Are you sticking both workers on beakers for the first five turns to research HBR while exploring with the GP?

Is the next step to put both workers on hammers and then pop out horsemen ASAP? Do you usually use any exploration gold to rush the first horseman in order to secure more huts to pay for the 2nd and 3rd horsemen and then make them into an army and then take a cap?

Thanks

The Americans start with a settler and a great person (random one).

The GP is used the first turns to explore, take huts, ...while you research HBR.
The gold you got from the exploration and huts is used to rush at least 3 horsemen.

let one horseman get at least veteran status from fighting barbarians close to your enemies, and take their cities.



America is the best for horserushing because there are 3 Gp's imo that are great for the start :
°Industrialist ; 50 gold, for rushin
°Leader : veteran units
°Great scientist : immediately get HBR



But I wonder why I am putting this here, because MorteEterna has made a thread for this a while ago...just search the strategy centre

Sn1p3rk1ll3 said:

The Americans start with a settler and a great person (random one).

The GP is used the first turns to explore, take huts, ...while you research HBR.
The gold you got from the exploration and huts is used to rush at least 3 horsemen.

let one horseman get at least veteran status from fighting barbarians close to your enemies, and take their cities.



America is the best for horserushing because there are 3 Gp's imo that are great for the start :
°Industrialist ; 50 gold, for rushin
°Leader : veteran units
°Great scientist : immediately get HBR



But I wonder why I am putting this here, because MorteEterna has made a thread for this a while ago...just search the strategy centre

Click to expand...

That doesn't work in that way. You have to bank hammers while choosing HBR. Then with the GP you should get a goodie village and get it for free. That means 20 beakers, that could be 20 hammers, that could be 40 gold instead of 25 gold that you get. Almost 2 turns of an horsemen. And, if you don't get it, you can work on horseback obviously. Great scientist should never be wasted to rush HBR but use it later for Code of Laws or other technologies, and using it to explore and get HBR normally.

Great leader almost never appear then, no problem. You should explore with it instead, and after you have explored enough, you can settle it for veteran horsemen

....I never horserush, so I may make mistakes here

So basically:

Turns 1-10 (or until you get HBR from a village)
1 worker on beakers
1 worker on hammers
Explore and find villages with GP

Then, after getting HBR) all workers on Hammers and rush horses as quickly as possible
Try to get first horseman up to veteran before making army.

Correct?

Yukon79 said:

So basically:

Turns 1-10 (or until you get HBR from a village)
1 worker on beakers
1 worker on hammers
Explore and find villages with GP

Then, after getting HBR) all workers on Hammers and rush horses as quickly as possible
Try to get first horseman up to veteran before making army.

Correct?

Click to expand...

no, not at all.

4000BC Settle your city. Put two workers on science to research HBR. Explore with your GP. Look for huts and land that you can name.
3500BC You have completed reasearching HBR. Now put two workers on forests, start producing horsemen. You usually can have close to 40 gold by this point, from your GP exploring. Rush the horsemen with gold whenever you can.

After you get the first horseman, go look for more barbs and huts. Gold should be quick to come by since the horses can get to the barbs quickly. After you get 3 horses, form the army, whether they are vet or not. A horsearmy overruns barbs, so it's easy to upgrade them at that point.

Typcially by 3000BC, you can have your first horsearmy. If you get one early enough, it's often a good idea to produce a second and sometimes 3rd and 4th army, depending on how much gold you get, whether or not you are being rushed, and how effective a subsequent horsearmy would be vs. teching up immediately.

What I listed above is generally for GAs, GHs,and GLs.

With a scientist: set workers on 2 forests in 4000BC, set it to produce a wonder or galley, and then explore with your GS to get huts. Return him to your cap by 3500BC, or earlier if you have picked up gold. Once he's back to the cap, use the Scientist for HBR, and switch production to horsemen, which you should get the first one for 0 gold because you have banked 20 hammers by 3500BC.

With a Great Explorer (gold): 4000BC, set workers to research HBR, Use the GE for 50gold, rush a warrior in 4000BC, and another in 3900BC. Go find barbs and huts. You should have plenty of gold to rush horsemen by 3500BC.

With a Builder: Set workers to 2 science, research HBR. Set production to a Galley, use the Great Builder to rush the galley. Go into the city screen, it will say "Gally next turn" and "rush for 0 gold". Don't rush the galley for 0 gold. Instead, at this point, switch your building order to produce warriors. It will then say "Rush Warrior (X3), 0 gold". Do this, and you have 3 warriors on the first turn. This is the most powerful start, and you'll have no problem getting early gold, and maybe an early warrior rush as well.

This is the fastest horserush. The Aztecs are the second fastest usually. The Chinese are the other fast ones that can reliable horserush (the russians and indians can also horserush faster than most other civs, but only in specific cases).

I'm sorry to say this Grayson, but you are wrong. And I just explained 2-3 posts above how to get HBR faster. You bank HAMMERS while you choose HBR, look for goodie huts and get them. You will mostly get HBR, that is like getting 40 gold instead of 25. And you can still have horses before 5 turns. With explorer/builder I've had horse armies in 4 turns, and taking a capital in 6 turns (MadDjinn can tell you that). That's not about luck. And if you get gold from the first goodie village, switch to science.. There is much more to tell, however.

MorteEterna said:

I'm sorry to say this Grayson, but you are wrong. And I just explained 2-3 posts above how to get HBR faster. You bank HAMMERS while you choose HBR, look for goodie huts and get them. You will mostly get HBR, that is like getting 40 gold instead of 25. And you can still have horses before 5 turns. With explorer/builder I've had horse armies in 4 turns, and taking a capital in 6 turns (MadDjinn can tell you that). That's not about luck. And if you get gold from the first goodie village, switch to science.. There is much more to tell, however.

Click to expand...

I know this.

I was just trying to explain how the horserush is done in a simple manner. Of course you'll often get HBR from a hut, a lot of times there is a hut just 2 turns away from your cap. If it give you 25 gold instead, then you are guarenteed to have your first horseman at 3500BC at the latest, if you are working both on science. It's riskier to go for hammers instead of sea, but it often pays off, and it's doesn't really slow you down in the long run.

I just wanted to explain to him how to do it without luck (though it isn't really that lucky to find a hut and get HBR, because it happens a lot).

I've had horsearmies in ungodly amounts of time as well. You can get a lot of horsearmies if you get your 100 gold really fast, or if you find 7 cities, or get a walk-in on a cap really early. Whenever I get any of those things, the game is over, and it's too easy just to build 2, 3, or 4 horsearmies really fast and clean up.

The biggest drawback of working on hammers to me is those games where you don't get a hut. At what point to you cut your loses and start researching HBR? Obviously, spending 5 turns on hammers and then 5 turns on science isn't going to cut it. You'll have your horseman guarenteed at 3000BC, but that's not great at all. You will have a knowledge of the map, but still an empty cap. Of course, you can rush a warrior whenever you want at that point.

All I'm saying is banking hammers shouldn't be suggested for people learning how to horserush with the Americans for the first time. It's a much more advanced and risky way of doing things. If you find a hut, then it's going to work out great. Surprisingly, you should get a hut in a lot of games. I don't know the percentages of games where you get a hut in the first five turns with the Americans and their GP, but it's probably over half the games, or at least somewhere around there.

If you don't get a hut, then you have to improvise, which is too complicated to type out, and probably impossible to always accurately explain, based on what's going on with the other civs and the map.

Giving someone a method that's a little more reliable, which may not have the most powerful potential, but still be powerful, seems a little more wise I think. I hate to use a GS for HBR, but sometimes I find it necessary. I'm still hoping to pop HBR from a hut, then rush Code of Laws later, but that's not always going to happen, and sometimes is just more powerful to go ahead and get those horsemen out there ASAP.

For the original poster:
It's great to learn this horserush, but it's not what makes the Americans so powerful. Getting to the medieval era and rushing units for their hammer costs is the most powerful bonus in the game. Getting to code of laws means you can have settlers for 20 gold and only lose 1 pop in a city. Having the bonus that allows you to rush units for their hammer costs in the Medieval means that you should work on gold as much as possible, and not hammers. The interest from gold means you'll actually be doing more production from a city set to gold with workers on the sea than working straight up on hammers. Rushing units at hammer value also means that you can sell a unit, and then make that unit appear in a city where you rush it for the same amount that you sold the unit for. You can have a lot of militia too, because they come free with the galley. There is so much you can do with this bonus that I don't have the time to list it all here, but it just makes everything so much easier.

Learning the horserush is an ok step 1, but the more important thinga about the Americans is learning how to play them from the Medieval era and beyond.