Revolution: with BarbarianCiv, Rebellion, AIAutoPlay

jdog5000 said:

This can also happen if you attempt to run a map with the wrong number of civs. If you are using the default 18 civ dll, you can't use a 24 civ map. If you do it crashes just as described. Hope that helps.


No, there currently is not ... it should be very easy to merge the source code for the two. I'll be posting a new version of the source code as I apparently left a file out of the zip (thanks to PTM for catching that!), I may have time to merge them but it will be untested.

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Good to know. I may want to take that on as a project, if you can't get to that yourself.

Great to hear from you JDog. Appreciate you checking in on how your magnificent mod is going every now and then. She's a fine baby of yours indeed. There is a bit of an undercurrent of interest now in merging Blake's Better AI and Revolutions. These two mods are the BEST pieces of mod software ever written for civ in my *humble* opinion. This is because both you and Blake were not scared to take on the complex civ engine in such a way like you had a vision that you could make the game fundamentally better than it already was.

The issue about Better AI is that it still appears to be in incremental evolution, with Blake having to tweak it regularly a bit like you had to do with Revolutions until you finally hit a sweet spot (a sophisticated act of judgement). Build 2/12 of Better AI looks like focussing on the issue of AI aggression. It appears the AI is less aggressive in this build than previous builds. However the sheer volume of variables and interrelationships makes this difficult to test without a long gestation period at a guess. However it is possible that Better AI at build 2/12 might be well suited to Revolutions at it's current point of evolution because of this tone down in aggression. Maybe now would be a good point to rush up a quick merge release.

I can only suggest this. I do have programming skills in C, C++ and Java enough to read the underlying logic and modify code with a good prospect of not messing it up. What I'm disinclined to do is muck around with setting up the compiler and learning the in's and out's of assembling a complete mod package for the enlightened fanatics who play Revolutions. That would be time consuming and tedious at a guess.

However if you spent some time at some point when it is not going to ruin your life, judging the complexity of the merging effort and passing on some detail to us mediocrity on how to do it, I or another programmer might be willing to make the effort and become the slave who does nothing but release new versions of Revolutions in concurrence with significant new releases of Better AI.

What would be music to my ears would be if you were to say that the merging effort is nothing more than taking function A from Better AI and pasting between code slab X and Y of Revolutions and repeat N times, like a cooking recipe.

However my gut feeling is that it won't be that simple obviously! The complexity of CIV, Revolutions and Better AI logic would minimise the chance of a cooking recipe like solution to merging the logic.

Cheers, no rush, enjoy your post Revolutions life and regards.

PS) someone suggested a multiplayer version of Revolutions but the effort required to produce and test such an animal appears to me to be enoumous. However I might be imagining complexity that is not really there?

Now, I didn't read all the post so I don't konw if this was already talked about and or added or thrown out the window but... anything with more then 10
pages I find myself NOT reading all of. Anyways here an idea for the mod.

"Becoming a barbarian"

If your civilization starts to lose per turn then any of your units that are a amount of range away from your will have a chance of becoming a barbarian and would have an even better chance of becoming a barbarian if within barbarian culture
Also if your civilization starts to lose per turn or has bad then a city that is an amount of range away from your capital or the FP wonder will have a chance of becoming a barbarian city. And an even better chance of becoming a barbarian if it is not conneted to your capital or if it is near a barbarian city.

Also. Barbarian units near the barbarian city that turns into a civ should also turn into that civ. And, I don't know if this is already so, but they should start out at war with everyone.

Thats all.

I've started the merge with the BetterAI mod ... it's easy but time consuming. Don't know when it will be completed, but I think it'll be done by the weekend.

As the BetterAI mod is a constant work in progress, I hope that once this initial merge is complete, it will be easier for some of you to remerge in the future. Cheers!

Thanks jdog! I'm sure if you leave instructions or a paper trail of what you're doing that somebody with some skills will be able to keep the updates going.

I can't wait to play the merged mod. I've never looked forward to a mod this much before.

How do I run "AIAutoPlay"? I tried typing SHIFT-CTRL-X during a game, and nothing happened.

Alright, it compiled ... I make no promises, but here is the merged dll for BetterAI and Revolution. To install, unzip and replace the dll in your Revolution folder (perhaps rename the one that's there in case you want to go back). Also included in the zip is an xml file that Blake (the BetterAI guy) suggests you use as well. I believe it changes difficulty level settings. Anyway, place it in your Revolution folder as well, inside the same set of subfolders it comes in in the zip.

Let me know if/how it works!

BetterAIRevolution

If it works well, I'll post the sources and a guide for future merging. Enjoy.

JD

Thanks. I can't wait!

Thanks jdog!!! Appreciate the effort! It will be fun to try. You managed to merge it quicker than I had anticipated. I'm hoping that this is a sign that the merge complexity isn't too bad.

Can somebody clue me in about the following lines from the .ini file?

IndexModifier = 1.0
IndexOffset = 0
HumanIndexModifier = 1.0
HumanIndexOffset = 0

I know that they all impact the likliehood of revolutions but I'm unclear on exactly how they do so. What I'd like to know is the difference between the modifier and the offset, and whether or not the first two options impact the human player at all.

Thanks!

When you say the mod has no multiplayer compatibility, does that include hotseat?

Fosse said:

Can somebody clue me in about the following lines from the .ini file?

IndexModifier = 1.0
IndexOffset = 0
HumanIndexModifier = 1.0
HumanIndexOffset = 0

I know that they all impact the likliehood of revolutions but I'm unclear on exactly how they do so. What I'd like to know is the difference between the modifier and the offset, and whether or not the first two options impact the human player at all.

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Suggest that you go to the menu along the top of the screen and search for any these terms like indexoffset under "search this thread". From memory, Jdog has responded to a similar question some time back.

I've done that. There is one post that discusses those lines (I've copied them from there, in fact), but it doesn't satisfy my curiosity. jdog explains that increasing the numbers will increase revolutions and provides some suggestions for a player who was worried he wasn't seeing enough. But there are no specific descriptions I've been able to find about how the different numbers interact, what the difference between an "offset" and a "modifer" are, and if the top two numbers impact the human at all.

Does Revolutions work hotseat?

Quaetam said:

Does Revolutions work hotseat?

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It seems to, though I haven't played a full game in hotseat.

Well I've run a few automated tests on the Better AI and Revolutions test hybrid code Jdog kindly provided.

As far as I can tell to 80% probability, it's got the big tick I would need more time to test it to 100% certainty.

It's great to see ai-merchants now going on trade missions and ai-artists culture bombing along a squeezed border. I haven't had enough time to test the combat code completely. I would be looking for the AI to form more rounded balanced stacks when out in the field.

Would love to hear what others think.....

As far as how the Revolutions state machine goes now interacting with Better AI, the balance doesn't seem to have altered! AI nations seem to have the same difficulties with Revolution as they always did. However some AI nations for reasons that are still not clear to me, are able to keep a stable society and prosper. It all depends on context and it's difficult to make an outright conclusion.

My gut feeling tells me that the experiment has worked. I'm a little dissapointed that the better AI mind is not even better, but I think writing an artificial intelligence machine in CIV is probably more complicated than writing a chess playing algorithm, so I'm not surprised.

That's where Jdog comes back in. If he could give us a guide on how he did the merge, we revolutions fanatics could continue on the merge efforts as Blake makes more inroads into the AI.

By the way, Blake has made an effort to make the aggressive AI option a serious game play mode. If you want bloody revolutions and lots of chaos, check it out.

Thanks again Jdog. I wish I could be 100% percent certain that the merge has worked but for me 80% will do. I've done all my testing on standard settings, map sizes and speeds.

I'm now going back to marathon mode. I won my first domination win on Monarch level using the Revolutions mod on a huge map taking me 89 hours, two and a half months, one alliance and multiple vassals. So I'll give better feedback after my next marathon game finishes....

Oh yeah, would it be possible to not only supply a merge guide Jdog, but instructions on how to make the DLL compatible with 24 nations too?

Three cheers for Jdog...... and Blake!

Fosse said:

Can somebody clue me in about the following lines from the .ini file?

IndexModifier = 1.0
IndexOffset = 0
HumanIndexModifier = 1.0
HumanIndexOffset = 0

I know that they all impact the likliehood of revolutions but I'm unclear on exactly how they do so. What I'd like to know is the difference between the modifier and the offset, and whether or not the first two options impact the human player at all.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Umm, what are you talking about? I didn't see any .ini file in the download.

Come to think of it, I've been playing a game under this mod for about 10 hours now, and I find it indistinguishable from the standard game. There have been no revolutions, no settled barbarians, nothing.

I placed the unzipped package in my "mods" folder, and I loaded the mod, but I don't think the mod is working.

What am I doing wrong?

glider1 said:

Well I've run a few automated tests on the Better AI and Revolutions test hybrid code Jdog kindly provided.

As far as I can tell to 80% probability, it's got the big tick I would need more time to test it to 100% certainty.

It's great to see ai-merchants now going on trade missions and ai-artists culture bombing along a squeezed border. I haven't had enough time to test the combat code completely. I would be looking for the AI to form more rounded balanced stacks when out in the field.

Would love to hear what others think.....

As far as how the Revolutions state machine goes now interacting with Better AI, the balance doesn't seem to have altered! AI nations seem to have the same difficulties with Revolution as they always did. However some AI nations for reasons that are still not clear to me, are able to keep a stable society and prosper. It all depends on context and it's difficult to make an outright conclusion.

My gut feeling tells me that the experiment has worked. I'm a little dissapointed that the better AI mind is not even better, but I think writing an artificial intelligence machine in CIV is probably more complicated than writing a chess playing algorithm, so I'm not surprised.

That's where Jdog comes back in. If he could give us a guide on how he did the merge, we revolutions fanatics could continue on the merge efforts as Blake makes more inroads into the AI.

By the way, Blake has made an effort to make the aggressive AI option a serious game play mode. If you want bloody revolutions and lots of chaos, check it out.

Thanks again Jdog. I wish I could be 100% percent certain that the merge has worked but for me 80% will do. I've done all my testing on standard settings, map sizes and speeds.

I'm now going back to marathon mode. I won my first domination win on Monarch level using the Revolutions mod on a huge map taking me 89 hours, two and a half months, one alliance and multiple vassals. So I'll give better feedback after my next marathon game finishes....

Oh yeah, would it be possible to not only supply a merge guide Jdog, but instructions on how to make the DLL compatible with 24 nations too?

Three cheers for Jdog...... and Blake!

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How do you run these "Automated Tests"? Is that the "AI Auto-Play" feature? When I try to activate it (SHIFT-CTRL-X), nothing happens.

bardolph said:

How do you run these "Automated Tests"? Is that the "AI Auto-Play" feature? When I try to activate it (SHIFT-CTRL-X), nothing happens.

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Do you have it enabled in the .ini config file

glider1 said:

Thanks jdog!!! Appreciate the effort! It will be fun to try. You managed to merge it quicker than I had anticipated. I'm hoping that this is a sign that the merge complexity isn't too bad.

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It really isn't bad at all as most of my code is in new functions added to the SDK, seperate from what Blake was working on. There were a couple places in this initial merge that took some work, but mostly it was very straight forward. I'll post the sources soon ... as soon as I unpack my computer from moving over the weekend.

glider1 said:

Oh yeah, would it be possible to not only supply a merge guide Jdog, but instructions on how to make the DLL compatible with 24 nations too?

Click to expand...

I'll include this in the guide, but it's really easy. There's a line in CvDefines that sets the max number of civs, so you can set it to whatever you want. It's commented in the Revolution code and will be in the new download as well.

Glad it worked!