Vicevirtuoso's Civilizations

Typhlomence said:

Very interested to see the new direction you're taking the Madoka modpack, especially now as I'm partway through watching the anime series myself (been on my "to watch" list for a while, but your mod reminded me to get it ). Those new icons look good!

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Good to hear! It's a bit bittersweet when I hear people say that my mod drove people to watch the show. On the one hand, it makes me feel like I did a great job on the mod, and have gotten people to experience what happens to be my favorite anime. Hell, my favorite work of fiction, if I may be honest. But on the other hand, the mod is chock-full of spoilers, so if this was your first exposure to it, you basically already know everything that happens, which probably will affect your enjoyment of the show.

averysillyman said:

A few things to point out though, it would be cool if Mami's guns poked out of her frame slightly as well, and Kyouko's weapon being cut off is slightly strange.

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The funny thing about Kyouko's spear is that cutting its tip off is exactly what they did in the art piece I used to make the icon. Not exactly sure why.

For Mami, her guns stuck way too far out of the frame to make them fit -- they were poking into her Civilization icon! So for them to pop out of the frame, I'd end up erasing half of the guns and leaving the other half intact. While the idea of Mami using sawed-off versions of her muskets is pretty amusing, it would probably still look weird.

Vicevirtuoso said:

The funny thing about Kyouko's spear is that cutting its tip off is exactly what they did in the art piece I used to make the icon. Not exactly sure why.

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I mean the fact that the top half and the bottom half are not connected because the chain connecting them is cut off by the image.

averysillyman said:

I mean the fact that the top half and the bottom half are not connected because the chain connecting them is cut off by the image.

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Oh, I see. I guess I could scoot her over to the right some more so the whole thing can fit within the area.


EDIT: More new challengers! I'm currently debating whether they will have a UB or a UI, so there is not yet an icon for that or the UU. My icon makes them look like some global supervillain organization, but that's okay, since they are villainous (somewhat).

Vicevirtuoso said:

Good to hear! It's a bit bittersweet when I hear people say that my mod drove people to watch the show. On the one hand, it makes me feel like I did a great job on the mod, and have gotten people to experience what happens to be my favorite anime. Hell, my favorite work of fiction, if I may be honest. But on the other hand, the mod is chock-full of spoilers, so if this was your first exposure to it, you basically already know everything that happens, which probably will affect your enjoyment of the show.

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I certainly understand where you're coming from and it might have been better if I went into it before playing with your mod. However, I think I first wanted to watch PMMM when I read it was a deconstruction - which was at least the middle of last year - so it wasn't like I was going into it blind anyway. And I'm not sure I actually read enough of the information in your mod so that the whole plot was spoiled for me (and I purposely avoided anything to do with Rebellion).

Also now that you have music for your Vocaloid civ I am definitely going to play a game as them sometime in the near future.

Typhlomence said:

I certainly understand where you're coming from and it might have been better if I went into it before playing with your mod. However, I think I first wanted to watch PMMM when I read it was a deconstruction - which was at least the middle of last year - so it wasn't like I was going into it blind anyway. And I'm not sure I actually read enough of the information in your mod so that the whole plot was spoiled for me (and I purposely avoided anything to do with Rebellion).

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Yeah, I do think the only way that anyone is going into Madoka 100% blind these days is if somebody gets a friend of theirs who is not into anime to watch it. Which is pretty hard if you don't tell them the true nature of the show...but I have successfully done it.

Also now that you have music for your Vocaloid civ I am definitely going to play a game as them sometime in the near future.

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I should too, because...well, I need to listen to the soundtrack myself at some point!

Vicevirtuoso said:

I should too, because...well, I need to listen to the soundtrack myself at some point!

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Do what I do and just load up the entire folder in Foobar.

Hey, I'm coming here because I finally got a break-through on one of my codes that was sitting idle for 5 months thanks to you, so thank you very much.

Also, when I am reading your posts, your avatar makes me think of this (even though they are bending in opposite directions, go figure).
Eye tricks!

Hello!
First of all, I would like to thank you very much for these Civs, they pretty much rekindled my love for the game (and I finally made an account to thank you ).

You also made me (almost) watch Puella Magi, I know it's a great show (hailed as the deconstruction of the Magical Girl genre) by SHAFT and the Urobutcher himself. I still can't stand the art though, no matter how much I try D:

I have a question though, for Hatsune Miku's spring onion filled Civ, have you intended to replace ALL Scientist slots for Musicians? In some of my games, there are certain wonders that still give me points for Great Scientists(aside from the free ones from Porcelain Tower, Hubble Space Telescope, etc.). Is it a bug, or is it still within your intentions? I wish I had a screenshot.

Miku herself is awesome though, especially that science jump when the tourism starts kicking in



Again, thank you very much kind sir, and I would like to see more works from you!

bane_ said:

Hey, I'm coming here because I finally got a break-through on one of my codes that was sitting idle for 5 months thanks to you, so thank you very much.

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Sorry you're having to drudge through my old, uncommented, clunky code.

AsmodeiaAria said:

You also made me (almost) watch Puella Magi, I know it's a great show (hailed as the deconstruction of the Magical Girl genre) by SHAFT and the Urobutcher himself. I still can't stand the art though, no matter how much I try D:

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>not liking wideface


No, but seriously, watch it.

I have a question though, for Hatsune Miku's spring onion filled Civ, have you intended to replace ALL Scientist slots for Musicians? In some of my games, there are certain wonders that still give me points for Great Scientists(aside from the free ones from Porcelain Tower, Hubble Space Telescope, etc.). Is it a bug, or is it still within your intentions? I wish I had a screenshot.

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All her UA does is replace Scientist specialists. Any progress towards Great Scientists from other sources are unaffected.

Spoiler :

Since you also have a section for your Fate/Series Civs, are you planning to make some more? There are many Fates to choose from (Stay Night, Zero, Extra, Extra CCC, Apocrypha, Prototype, you name it!), and there is plenty to choose from in the historical leader/hero list.

Here's a suggestion, if you don't mind:

Saber (from Fate/Extra)

Spoiler :

Real name: Nero Claudius Augustus Caesar Germanicus

UA: Aestus Estus (The Embryonic Flame) - Captured cities have less Resistance time, and receive +10% production when a Domus Aurea is built there.
UB: Domus Aurea: Replaces the Coliseum. It only gives +1 Happiness, but has a Great Slot of Art and an Artist specialist slot. When that slot is filled, the building provides +3 more Happiness and +5% to that city's Culture output.
UB: Fountain (of the Saint, but that's too long I guess): Replaces the Garden. No longer needs to be built near a River tile, but it is more expensive to build. Also, units trained in the city with a Fountain receive a Promotion based on what Tile the city is in.
[These promotions are based on Saber's abilities]

What do you think?

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Right now, due to the very large amount of work I'm going to be putting into the new Madoka mod, any other Civs are on hold. In fact, more than likely, the Madoka conversion mod will be my final mod. It's going to take me several months to complete, and, with patches, balancing, and new features, will be a project I'll be keeping up with for years. It'll essentially be the mod I do from now on.

Vicevirtuoso said:

Sorry you're having to drudge through my old, uncommented, clunky code.

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I still find your code incredibly easy to follow, even if it's uncommented. Although I still feel guilty for describing the UA of my current project, and a friend said "Oh, so it's like Ocelot's UA, just with science instead of golden age points?"

Yes. Yes it is... ;__;

Vicevirtuoso said:

Right now, due to the very large amount of work I'm going to be putting into the new Madoka mod, any other Civs are on hold. In fact, more than likely, the Madoka conversion mod will be my final mod. It's going to take me several months to complete, and, with patches, balancing, and new features, will be a project I'll be keeping up with for years. It'll essentially be the mod I do from now on.

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Well it's probably going to be one heck of a final mod so I don't see a problem with that! Though before you made that decision did you have anything else planned other than Kantai Collection?

Also, in regards to the civilizations you're including in the new Madoka mod...

bouncymischa said:

I still find your code incredibly easy to follow, even if it's uncommented. Although I still feel guilty for describing the UA of my current project, and a friend said "Oh, so it's like Ocelot's UA, just with science instead of golden age points?"

Yes. Yes it is... ;__;

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I guess I should feel guilty too since my first civ - which is just about ready for release - shares the "National Wonders have extra art slots" part of the UA with the Vocaloid civ (with permission)...

Typhlomence said:

Well it's probably going to be one heck of a final mod so I don't see a problem with that! Though before you made that decision did you have anything else planned other than Kantai Collection?

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I had a few things lined up in my little scratch document containing uniques. A lot of them, I never worked on because I couldn't figure out a good way to implement their uniques. Or, in one case, someone beat me to the idea and did it in a way I liked enough that I didn't feel the need to make my own version -- fictional Civ authors are few and far enough between that we don't need five different versions of one fictional Civ, like historical Civ makers and their fascination with Israel!

So, here's the list of what probably won't happen now:

Also, in regards to the civilizations you're including in the new Madoka mod...

Spoiler :

Kyubey says that his race is some sort of civilization. Since the Magical Girl civilizations don't have Incubator UUs anymore, might we see an Incubator civilization instead?

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I actually did plan on including The Incubators as a Civ when I first came up with the idea for the new Madoka modpack. The idea was absolutely silly to the point where I would have needed to make them uncontrollable by the AI. They would have:

• Started with every technology in the game
• Unable to make Settlers, Military Units, Wonders or Spaceship Parts. Cannot annex Cities
• Tourism penalty of -9999999%
• City-State influence decays at 1000% of the normal rate and Gold gifts are 1000% less effective
• UU 1: Contractor. Stops city growth when built, cannot buy with Gold, has a huge production time. Goes to an enemy city and makes a new Great Magical Girl from it.
• UU 2: Assistant. You station it "inside" a Magical Girl like an Air Unit in a Carrier, and as long as it was partnered with the Girl, the Assistant would provide "moral support." But, you all know the Incubator definition of moral support...
• Would have a unique victory condition: Energy Victory. Must gain a set amount of energy, which is gained when any Magical Girl (including those of other Civs) turns into a Witch.

Crazy and sounds like a very strong deviation from the base game, but that's exactly why it would be too much work, impossible to balance, and impossible for the AI to play.

bouncymischa said:

I still find your code incredibly easy to follow, even if it's uncommented. Although I still feel guilty for describing the UA of my current project, and a friend said "Oh, so it's like Ocelot's UA, just with science instead of golden age points?"

Yes. Yes it is... ;__;

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I guess I should feel guilty too since my first civ - which is just about ready for release - shares the "National Wonders have extra art slots" part of the UA with the Vocaloid civ (with permission)...

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If it makes you guys feel any better, the original code for Incubators (back when they didn't have a button) was largely copied from Tomatekh's Mali. And hell, my UnitPanel.lua is copied from whoward's version; all I did was update it for BNW compatibility. We all started somewhere, and that was seeing what already worked and adapting it to your own mechanics.

Vicevirtuoso said:

I actually did plan on including The Incubators as a Civ when I first came up with the idea for the new Madoka modpack. The idea was absolutely silly to the point where I would have needed to make them uncontrollable by the AI. They would have:

• Started with every technology in the game
• Unable to make Settlers, Military Units, Wonders or Spaceship Parts. Cannot annex Cities
• Tourism penalty of -9999999%
• City-State influence decays at 1000% of the normal rate and Gold gifts are 1000% less effective
• UU 1: Contractor. Stops city growth when built, cannot buy with Gold, has a huge production time. Goes to an enemy city and makes a new Great Magical Girl from it.
• UU 2: Assistant. You station it "inside" a Magical Girl like an Air Unit in a Carrier, and as long as it was partnered with the Girl, the Assistant would provide "moral support." But, you all know the Incubator definition of moral support...
• Would have a unique victory condition: Energy Victory. Must gain a set amount of energy, which is gained when any Magical Girl (including those of other Civs) turns into a Witch.

Crazy and sounds like a very strong deviation from the base game, but that's exactly why it would be too much work, impossible to balance, and impossible for the AI to play.

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That sounds amazing, and also horrendously complicated, lol.

Char Aznable would be amusing. Whenever he's defeated, he should don some headwear of some sort and come back as another player with a different name. Because, you know.

DarkScythe said:

Char Aznable would be amusing. Whenever he's defeated, he should don some headwear of some sort and come back as another player with a different name. Because, you know.

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And after he wins a Science Victory, in 10 turns, Nukes drop all over the planet. Y'know, to save it.



In other news, I decided to do this.

bouncymischa said:

I still find your code incredibly easy to follow, even if it's uncommented.

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Seconded.
I actually learned stuff (like looping through X) reading the 'old' codes.

Vicevirtuoso said:

I had a few things lined up in my little scratch document containing uniques. A lot of them, I never worked on because I couldn't figure out a good way to implement their uniques. Or, in one case, someone beat me to the idea and did it in a way I liked enough that I didn't feel the need to make my own version -- fictional Civ authors are few and far enough between that we don't need five different versions of one fictional Civ, like historical Civ makers and their fascination with Israel!

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Yeah, I'm worried about those things too. Someone already beat me to a Recettear civilization (haven't had time to try it yet), and the other fictional civilizations I have in mind, I'm really trying to think of good uniques for.

So, here's the list of what probably won't happen now:

Spoiler :

Kantai Collection -- you know this one already
Dr. Doom of Latveria -- couldn't come up with suitable uniques.
Ness of Eagleland -- this is probably the one I regret dropping the most, since I actually did have a great UA planned out: you'd visit Natural Wonders and beat powerful Barbarian bosses there to get the Sound Stone melodies. When you filled it up, you'd get something silly like +30% Combat Strength for the rest of the game. The main reason I didn't do this one is because it would have taken a lot of work.
Char Aznable of Neo-Zeon -- I would absolutely have to come up with red repaints of all the Armored units in the game, but I detest working with the 3D stuff...
Satsuki Kiryuuin of Honnouji -- Shockz beat me to this and did it in a pretty fine way.
Aikurou Mikisugi of Nudist Beach -- a flavorful UA would end up making this Civ very luck-based, probably. The idea was something like "Receive no Happiness or Yields from Cotton, Silk, Furs, or Dyes. Receive bonus Yields from all other Luxury Resources."
Pushmataha of The Choctaw -- yes, you read that right, a historical Civ! Problem is, I suck at historical research, and I had no real idea how to translate them to the game...

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Doctor Doom! I'm not a big Marvel person at all but I would definitely like to see someone make a decent civilization for Doom... Though I can see the problem with uniques. The only thing I can think of with my limited knowledge are Doombots and I'm not sure what they could be used for.

That Earthbound civilization concept sounds pretty interesting too, despite me not having played any of that series yet.

I actually did plan on including The Incubators as a Civ when I first came up with the idea for the new Madoka modpack. The idea was absolutely silly to the point where I would have needed to make them uncontrollable by the AI. They would have:

• Started with every technology in the game
• Unable to make Settlers, Military Units, Wonders or Spaceship Parts. Cannot annex Cities
• Tourism penalty of -9999999%
• City-State influence decays at 1000% of the normal rate and Gold gifts are 1000% less effective
• UU 1: Contractor. Stops city growth when built, cannot buy with Gold, has a huge production time. Goes to an enemy city and makes a new Great Magical Girl from it.
• UU 2: Assistant. You station it "inside" a Magical Girl like an Air Unit in a Carrier, and as long as it was partnered with the Girl, the Assistant would provide "moral support." But, you all know the Incubator definition of moral support...
• Would have a unique victory condition: Energy Victory. Must gain a set amount of energy, which is gained when any Magical Girl (including those of other Civs) turns into a Witch.

Crazy and sounds like a very strong deviation from the base game, but that's exactly why it would be too much work, impossible to balance, and impossible for the AI to play.

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Wow, that is really crazy. But then again, so are the Incubators. I suppose it would be difficult in any case to make an Incubator civilization work like it does in PMMM. So does that mean that there won't be a gameplay purpose for Incubators?

If it makes you guys feel any better, the original code for Incubators (back when they didn't have a button) was largely copied from Tomatekh's Mali. And hell, my UnitPanel.lua is copied from whoward's version; all I did was update it for BNW compatibility. We all started somewhere, and that was seeing what already worked and adapting it to your own mechanics.

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I suppose that's true! But I have been contacting the authors of the mods I used as references just to make sure that it was okay, just as a courtesy.

Vicevirtuoso said:

In other news, I decided to do this.

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"The Vocaloid software was initially developed at the Pompeu Fabra University in Barcelona, so it made a good alternative to crowding up Japan further."

Well, you learn something new every day!

The Incubators are way too advanced, you couldn't even put them in as a faction in a lot of sci-fi settings.

Case in point, the Isolation Field.

Typhlomence said:

The only thing I can think of with my limited knowledge are Doombots and I'm not sure what they could be used for.P.

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The way I thought of Doombots would have been that they enable your capital to survive capture somehow, relocating itself. Immediately scrapped that idea because I consider it a cardinal sin to make a unique which requires you to be defeated first.

Motomiya Nagisa said:

The Incubators are way too advanced, you couldn't even put them in as a faction in a lot of sci-fi settings.

Case in point, the Isolation Field.

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And yet, they ultimately got beaten by a couple of very emotional 14-year-old girls...



Incubators will survive in the new mod in multiple ways, though. First: they will start spawning in the "Hostile" faction, a renaming of Barbarians which will also include Witches and Familiars, when a Magical Girl has lived a pretty long life (75+ turns). They'll go after her, not with a melee or ranged attack, but with words. They'll attempt to distress her so that her Soul Gem will get all nasty. You'll have to shoot them down while they try to escape, Homura-style. Additionally, DHomu still has her Incubator Slaves, and the Pleiades have their Artificial Incubators.

really liked the vocaloids, although the specialist bonuses are too OP for my liking. in fact, most of your civs are OP compared to base civs. Although if you only play your own civs it's balanced with each other.

zukenft said:

really liked the vocaloids, although the specialist bonuses are too OP for my liking. in fact, most of your civs are OP compared to base civs. Although if you only play your own civs it's balanced with each other.

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I find the Vocaloids to be much more in-line after I nerfed them. Now you have to go after National Wonders you might not otherwise build, rather than having the "gimme" of the National College. The production nerf also helped bring them in line, so now you're getting a maximum of +3C/+4S/+4G from Musicians instead of +3C/+5S/+5P/+5G. Which is still very good, but not having Scientists is a pretty serious drawback as compensation. Babylon is considered the best Firaxis Civ in the game strictly because they get a lot of Great Scientists -- in the endgame, those matter much more than your Science per turn.

I'm curious which of my other Civs you feel are overpowered. There's a lot of Madoka civs that I will admit do need more readjusting -- UMadoka in particular, but also Homura, DHomura, and Kyouko. Currently in the process of working on that, though. Big Boss (subsistence) is also quite a wild animal to bring in line, but I haven't gotten enough targeted feedback on his most recent update yet. I don't have enough time to play several test games myself, unfortunately, and rely mostly on user feedback.

Got a hard time seeing Ocelot, Armstrong, Nanoha, Rider, Lancer, Statesman, Cole, or Nemesis as being overpowered, though...