Cyrus/AMAZON Diplomacy

I logged in to check if vikings had finally met us yet. Nope. I really don't get those guys. They have the most to gain from circum nav bonus, but looks like they really screwed that one up all to hell. Don't they start with fishing even? Amazing..

Just as I'm leaving, I catch Sommer logging in. I decide to chat, sure enough, he's finally all willing to talk now that I sent a PVM for a machinery deal. He stated his team was DRAFTING up some sort of deal/response now.

I then left it at that since he got disconnected (or possibly fake disconnected, lol)
 
Dearest Amazons,

The Maverick people deeply regret our inability to properly assist our friends and neighbors in the past. As we have benefited so greatly from our alliance thus far, we can only wish that we had in our possession appropriate "tokens of goodwill" to repay the debt. Alas, we are but a poor nation.

It would appear, however, that great developments are afoot, which may well result in us acquiring some treasures in the near future. You may rest assured that, in such a case, our thoughts would be only of how our new-found fortune may benefit our Amazon friends.

Yours truly,
Mavericks.

This is still has not been sent by us. Do you guys want me to email it?
 
I don't like that so much anymore :D , and it's a touch outdated.

Sounds like obs has been communicating with them since then. Maybe he should propose a different response as a consequence?
 
The Maverick people deeply regret our inability to properly assist our friends and neighbors in the past.

This sounds to me almost like we are admitting blame.

I"d like to post the other response I mentioned, but I'm not sure what our pw is.

* Edit

Alright, I did a search, found the PW and checked our mail. Nothing new in so far. So I sent the last draft I had drawn up. I put a random name down so they don't THINK it's me writing both.
 
Yes, I sent them this one:
Dear brave Amazon warriors.

Thank you for finally getting back us once again. In exchange, we’ll try to answere your questions and see how we can help your people out.

You did ask us what we could do to help the Amazons. Well, there were a lot of things, unfortunately we had waited all this time while hearing no news from your diplomats. Needless to say, this has been our main bottleneck, and we assumed either your diplomats were trying to cause your own civ a downfall, or you felt you were getting enough help from elsewhere so didn’t want anymore.

The Mavericks are finishing up shopping around for the best deals, but as we understand it there is nothing we have that you want at this time, so unfortunately we can not help you out there. Perhaps in the future though, you may want to think again. Maybe you would like to spread a religion from us, or other such things? We have been getting some offers for those as of late. In the meantime we haven’t settled yet on any major concrete deals, except for one with Carthage. However, due to their request, we are not liable to discuss it.

It is a shame that we are not working closer together; there are many big techs our traits can bring in, but you force us to work with other allies instead.

In the meantime, there is one growing area for concern. We’ve noticed for a few turns now you are hammering spy points against us. This is very unsettling, and we would appreciate it if you could stop treating your ally in this matter. This can only result in a bloody conflict with each other, and we’d rather keep the Amazons as an Ally than a Foe. Blood is a big expense.

I have not received anything else in pvm from my (un-official) machinery inquirey.

I am hoping this may incite them to break down their faction against us if they THINK they could get machinery. Anyhow, even if it doesn't work, just POSSIBLY we could get some other things from Theology as well.

For now, we are stuck in the worst position of the prisoner's dilemma. But as the prisoners grow, eventually someone can't resist and the chain breaks. I hope it's sooner rather than later. Sadly, STILL we can't find anyone else.
 
Alright, looks like our diplomatic account has received an OFFICIAL e-mail by them.

To obsolete and the Mavericks,

Our Diplomat is on sabbatical, and I, the Zenobian Captain, have been authorized to respond to your recent messages.

We Zenobians are intrigued by your offer to trade Machinery, however, we have noticed that you do not yet have Machinery. In order for us to determine what steps we would be willing to take in order to obtain Machinery from you, we would first need some idea as to when you will actually have Machinery. We would not want to make any commitments until you obtain Machinery, or at least know for certain when we could expect to receive it, because Machinery is such a valuable, expensive technology.

Also, we can not trade for Machinery because we don't have Metal Casting and we have no plans to research it in the near future. The reason for this is three-fold. First, we have prayed to the powerful Sea-Goddess Doris and recently christened a boat in her mighty name. In return, she has promised to keep our homeland safe from Naval invasion for many years, so we will not need Triremes.

Second, the Goddess Aphrodite has informed us that her husband Hephaestus, blacksmith of the Goddesses, does not wish us to build any forges at this time, because without a more Organized Religion system, they would be far too expensive and time consuming.

Finally, Athena, Goddess of wisdom has made it well known to Zenobians that the mighty obsolete, creator and mastermind of the world famous WE/SSE strategy is a prominent advisor of your team. We therefore think it highly unlikely that we would succeed in a race to build a Giant Colossus. Additionally, our Goddesses might be offended if we were to build such a large male statue.

For these reasons, we think it unwise to sacrifice any resources to obtain that which we cannot use. It would therefore be difficult for us to offer you anything for MC, as it worthless to us, and as we have explained we will not be researching it for the same reason. We are anxious to hear your suggestions as to how this problem could be resolved.

Sommerswerd,
Captain of The Zenobians

Once again their lies shine through. They mentioned earlier they were just about to get MC, and now they state something totally contradictory. (I thought so!)

We should tell them the TRUTH, on when we were going to bulb Machinery, so they are in fact not getting any official lie from us. Let everything check out. And we'll finish up by telling them since they won't be getting MC, we'll use the GE on something else then.

That way they feel they left themselves out of a great bargain. While we were trying to do us both a big favour.
 
Wow! That actually seems to have worked. :D Well done, obs.
Yeah, let's give them something more specific, and then pull back. Makes sense to me.
 
Well now that we got them talking... what do you think of a response like this? :

Dear mighty Amazons:

Thank you for your swift response. We saddened yet puzzled that you would consider such a powerful and key tech such as Metal Casting as useless. We understand that you feel it is de-valued due to the Colossus not being available.

However, for a fair price we could throw in a monopoly bargain where we agree not to transfer MC to a third party until you have completed building the colossus. Mavericks not building it would of course be part of the contract. With this water-based map, and all your growing cities, this should be a very wise investment.

As for the religion problem, Obsolete mentioned he did send some private messages out to others bargaining for missionary exchanges. We are sorry if you were not included on this list. We’d be happy to gift one to you for a fair compensation. It does indeed seem you are badly in need of a religion. Losing out on important civics and happiness can be very painful.

At the time of this writing, we will be bulbing machinery in 4 turns. That should be T-68. If on the other hand, it turns out we can not work out a fair trade with anyone, then we may default to saving our GE for rushing a world wonder instead.
 
I did some brief checking through our repository. To be fair to the Amazons, they did not exactly tell us they were a few turns short of MC in any official letter.

HOWEVER, Carthage, who was in cahoots with Amazons did in fact tell us this, and this is a direct quote from the official diplo responses.:
we are getting Metal Casting soon, and getting it a few turns in advance would not be helpful at all.

I'm not sure what a few turns to them means, but this e-mail arrived on the 13'th. And they are certainly not even researching it at this point (yes that is confirmed). So, it looks like a failed bluff.

I don't want to start cross posting here so I'll post later in the other thread.
 
Should we use GE to build Pyramids (which I think we should do), it would give us an option to bulb GS later on and then according to DaveMcW's article about order of bulbing we would need only alphabet to bulb Machinery with GS. I think that is better plan long term, I don't know how many turns it would delay us though?
 
I am > 90% sure we will build Pyramids next no matter what (assuming no bad RNG). I'm leaving a little lee-way in case we get a really beneficial deal here that gets us out of this dogpile vs us.

I swear, those two are sticking together through thick & water. Eventually though, we MAY crack them. What I really want from them hardcore now is Alphabet more than anything. Because the others we meet I fear are not going to have alpha either. Which means meeting them is almost as pointless.

I am so desperate, I'm going to renegade on deals if I have to.
 
I am > 90% sure we will build Pyramids next no matter what (assuming no bad RNG). I'm leaving a little lee-way in case we get a really beneficial deal here that gets us out of this dogpile vs us.

I swear, those two are sticking together through thick & water. Eventually though, we MAY crack them. What I really want from them hardcore now is Alphabet more than anything. Because the others we meet I fear are not going to have alpha either. Which means meeting them is almost as pointless.

I am so desperate, I'm going to renegade on deals if I have to.

All right, so basically:

Option 1 is to build the Pyramids

Option 2 is to bulb Machinery only if that will get us an ally because that is more important than a wonder here. Need to figure out what to do about the Carthage/Hannibal and Persia/Cyrus/Amazon alliance.

And yes, obsolete, I too couldn't find anywhere in an official letter where Amazon said they were close to discovering Metal Casting.
 
I think we don't need machinery now. Just stick to the original plan and build Pyramids with the GE. There is enough time to keep out of trouble if we build a few triremes.
 
If we build mids in four turns, we stick library somewhere in there, run 2 scientists and with the discount on alphabet we could have it in some 14 turns from now, and with 8GPP we should get Scientist in 29 turns from now.... And then machinery, correct me if I'm wrong on this math here.
I think this might be slow, but I still think mids give us better edge, since we ARE spiritual, and we should abuse HR, Representation and Police State.
We should bulb Machinery only and ONLY if Amazons are to commit themselves 100% to us. In the mean time we should start trireme policy against Q anyway.
 
It's possible Amazons may end up FAKING a deal/agreement with us, only to prevent us from getting Mids... That's a little scary...

If worse comes to worse here, and they don't want to deal again, we at least SHOULD have some brownie points for ATTEMPTING to make yet another deal with them.
 
If nobody has MC (which seems to be the case), Machinery does us no good - we'd have to 'give' them MC just so they can also have the option of also getting Machinery later. I vote stick with the Mids and abuse our SPI trait. And I'm 100% behind some trireme diplomacy, especially given how close Q is to us - we could do some damage here...
 
I'm very surprised that we still didn't get ANY answer from these guys after our last email. Should we follow up?
 
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