Science Victory is far too easy.

Isn't that what time victory is for?

Yeah, but that doesn't feel like you really did much other than play the game and miss your target, that's why it's usually turned off. Time is basically the participation award, science victory is more like you won, but you still had to put in effort to actually win, it's like diving for home plate in baseball.
 
...that's why it's usually turned off.

What do you mean by “usually”? The GotM, HoF, and other series that I am familiar with do not bother turning off time VC.

Time is basically the participation award..

I would actually like to see a Deity game won by score and time where the human player didn't just pause a domination run.
 
The science victory is totally the easiest one out of all of them, at least

Except it is not easier than Diplo. And there are only four VC. And it involves almost all of the tech tree. So not a bad VC by any means.
 
What do you mean by “usually”? The GotM, HoF, and other series that I am familiar with do not bother turning off time VC.



I would actually like to see a Deity game won by score and time where the human player didn't just pause a domination run.

Oh wait time is won by score? I never noticed, probably because I have only had time victories 3 times before I turned them off.
 
Which is why science is the only VC that I ever turn off.

As you've said and I'm not afraid to admit, it's always my back-door victory. Early game social policy track (particularly after finishing the first tree) usually is my statement that I'm heading down this or that victory path. When things seem insurmountable, I switch to science.

It's also by far the hardest VC to block an AI from achieving.

So turning science VC off offers a positive and a negative. The positive is that the AI can't snipe a victory condition under your nose when you're on track to reaching one of the other VCs. The negative is that your back-up plan is gone.

Yeah, you're right, the fact that capturing the capital doesn't ruin the ship was a bad change, imo. Personally I think SV would be fine as it was in Civ 4 - you could block it by capturing the capital.

Funny thing is, I turn off time and diplo victories, and leave science enabled. In any case, it is warfare that decides 85% of my games anyway .
 
Yeah, you're right, the fact that capturing the capital doesn't ruin the ship was a bad change, imo.

I agree with this, it is kind of frustrating. I have lost SV to civs that I wrecked, as in Pangaea maps where I kicked them off the mainland but left them their several trash island cities. I knew they only had one part left, but I thought I time to complete a dom sweep. Quite annoying!

Funny thing is, I turn off time and diplo victories, and leave science enabled. In any case, it is warfare that decides 85% of my games anyway.

The AI has a pretty hard time winning by Diplo, but I think it be left enabled unless you are hand-picking opponents. Some of the AI really need that as an option to give you any competition at all. Or do you turn it off so that you are not tempted to use it as a fallback VC?

The only thing I turn off is the time victory.

What is the point of turning off time victories? Do your games really go that long?
 
Its also the only victory I have ever seen an AI achieve.

The fact that you can just turtle yourself to SV without really doing anything on the international stage shows something is wrong. The only remotely hindering thing might be not having aluminum but even then you can just build recycling plants.

It also comes across as some kind of cop-out victory condition. For example, if you fail a domination you can juist say, or well I'll just build the space ship. :crazyeye:

Nothing in the UN can slow you down really. Spaceship Factory and International Space Station are pretty much useless because by the time they come around chances are you've already built half the ship.

I think at very least the spaceship parts need to be knocked back in the tree. Ideally all at Future Tech, seeing as they are all sci-fi anyway.

I have seen the AI win culture and I have seen Alex almost win diplomacy. Only way I stopped him was the buy out his city states.

The most impressive ive seen was culture though. Check out this thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=554140

Yep, that’s right, Brazil beat me by culture in 1828 with 288 tourism per turn. I cant remember though whether this was their carnival figure or their stock figure. But still, for me that is super impressive.

I think science victory needs to be in there for the AI because the AI doesn’t really “shoot” for a victory type. So by default if it’s the best civ and is teching the best then it can win science. I think science is too easily manipulated though. For instance, does the AI know to shoot for hubble and use the scientists to bulb for the expensive science techs? Does it use the engineer to rush build spaceship parts after unlocking the social policy in order?

In future civ games I think the victory types need to be hard coded into the AI behaviour.
 
@beetle: When I first started playing I had turned it off because the times were taking a long time. I think I've just simply kept it off since then.
 
The AI has a pretty hard time winning by Diplo, but I think it be left enabled unless you are hand-picking opponents. Some of the AI really need that as an option to give you any competition at all. Or do you turn it off so that you are not tempted to use it as a fallback VC?
I just don't like the mechanics of it. I never liked the idea of people voting for a winner...feels too much like an episode of Survivor.
 
I just don't like the mechanics of it. I never liked the idea of people voting for a winner...feels too much like an episode of Survivor.
It also breaks suspension of disbelief in terms of bribing AIs to vote for you. Put yourself in the AI's shoes: if you were getting close to a culture or spaceship victory, is there ANY way that you would vote for another civ knowing that your votes would probably cause him to win and consequently you lose before you reach your victory condition? Probably not. And would you allow any amount of favor that AI did for you earlier coerce you into voting for him and losing the game? Not a chance!
 
It also breaks suspension of disbelief in terms of bribing AIs to vote for you. Put yourself in the AI's shoes: if you were getting close to a culture or spaceship victory, is there ANY way that you would vote for another civ knowing that your votes would probably cause him to win and consequently you lose before you reach your victory condition? Probably not. And would you allow any amount of favor that AI did for you earlier coerce you into voting for him and losing the game? Not a chance!

That's partly why many do not like winning by diplo unless there's no alternative or it's the specified victory condition for GoTM etc. The mechanics of winning it feels cheesy.
 
Exactly. Although, diplomacy in general is a little problematic for immersion purposes. I have no trouble with science victory, though.
 
What is the point of turning off time victories? Do your games really go that long?

If you ask me, I think if no one already won by that point then I and AIs should continue fighting until anyone declared winner by any other victory instead of "Time out, that guy win"
 
The reason Science Victory is too easy is probably because science is that powerful. Once you gain a science lead, it is very difficult for other victory types to beat you: get the Great Firewall/culture wonders to stop a culture victory, better units to stop a domination victory, get the gold buildings/trade route slots faster to stop a diplomatic victory.
 
The reason Science Victory is too easy is probably because science is that powerful. Once you gain a science lead, it is very difficult for other victory types to beat you: get the Great Firewall/culture wonders to stop a culture victory, better units to stop a domination victory, get the gold buildings/trade route slots faster to stop a diplomatic victory.

Yeah this no doubt has a lot to do with it
 
The reason Science Victory is too easy is probably because science is that powerful. Once you gain a science lead, it is very difficult for other victory types to beat you: get the Great Firewall/culture wonders to stop a culture victory, better units to stop a domination victory, get the gold buildings/trade route slots faster to stop a diplomatic victory.

Yes and this is why the cultureal victory mechanics don't seem finished to me. Falling behind in culture is DEVASTATING if you are in a different ideology. Same ideology? No problem, it hardly matters at all.

Absolutely dominating another civ in tourism and culture should have more benefits throughout the game, not just on the turn you win.
 
Absolutely dominating another civ in tourism and culture should have more benefits throughout the game, not just on the turn you win.
Well, it significantly buffs your spies and helps with domination in that cities come out of resistance twice as fast. I would like to see tourism and culture make CS bribes go further or something. It seems inconsistent to have CS totally immune to the dominant ideology.
 
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