GOTM23 Succession Game [civ3]

I really hope he can play.
In case you need to skip him, ControlFreak, I probably won't be on the board tomorrow -so, don't worry if you don't see anything from me.
I will pop up on Friday and most likely play my turns over the weekend.

I will be away from Friday to Sunday so wont be able to play any turns until Sunday PM

I figured we'd have problems running this game quickly, as I asked for people who had no time for Civ.

Frankly, I'm surprized the PTW team is playing so quickly. (Hey, I'm allowed to look. I'm running both. )

smackster, if you can finish by Friday, please take it now. Then Karasu can get it after you and we'll see where MacBaldrick is by then.

If you can, post here either way smackster.

We'll get it going one way or another.

I got it, I'll finish and post my 10 turns by end of day

Smackster

Thanks smackster.

AlanH
smackster (Playing Now)
Karasu (Ondeck - will play 10)
Alweth (Added!)
MacBaldrick (MIA - where are you?)

Sorry to miss my turn - I didn't pick up the thread email promptly (am still struggling thru GOTM21 at half-hour a turn) and with the time zone difference too much time passed. It is now 18:45 on Wednesday evening (15th) here in UK.

Might be best to pick up later as I tried this as a QSC (never submitted) but didn't have time to take it much further - so I have too much inside info (like where the other horses, iron & Civs are). This should be all out in the open by my turn.

Phew - what a lot of interesting discussions. I've never done a palace jump but finding a good location for a FP will be key as this is not a wonderfull location (at least until the oil is found - ages away). I built cities at a 4 / 4.5 radius with little loss of productivity but an outer circle hits too many mountains / desserts I think - you will be able to judge long before we have that many settlers.

Correction - I think is was at 5.5 radius building cities on the hill next to the olives (in the desert) to the NW and next to sheep / goats to NE. Need to reveal more of the map before commenting further.

MacBaldrick@ are you still willing to play and check the forums when your turn is due? If so, I'll leave you in the last slot of the rotation.

Please work harder at forgetting the map. And if you do remember something. Please don't post it. I'll take the comment about the oil as an educated guess regarding the desert terrain that surrounds us.

Sorry if I pushed the pace a bit with my first stint. Maybe you were all expecting a 48 hour respite while I wrestled with it, but my schedule gets more hectic mid-week, so I figured I'd better get it out of the way in a single overnight session on Monday.

Note that, if we go too slowly relative to the PTW team, they'll all come back and heckle us after they've finished Ted already claims to be chuckling!

Some higher power is working against us. High winds on the NE seaboard in US, power lines down, get home with no power, therefore no internet access. Being dedicated I've come back into work to download the save, I assume it will go quick 10 turns with only one city, should be a breeze.

3050BC

Before I hit end turn I traded Pottery to Egypt for 10GP. As soon as they meet somebody else they will get it so might as well take their 10GP for ourselves. I'm tempted to trade Wheel as again as soon as you trade it to anyone they will all get it very soon after (AI->AI trading is very cheap), but decide to wait as I've only just got into this game. Decided to leave the music on as I'm working in the dark through power cut, wierd music.

Turn 1 3000BC

See a Zulu scout, had we met them before, still can't get online to check. Whatever they have nothing to trade.
NW Scout- NE->N
NE Scout - N->NW
SW Scout - NE (onto mountain)
Worker completes irrigation, decide to road that square. Really want to road the wool, but decide that a one click of the happiness slider will lose us 1GP, which is exactly what we'll gain from roading the flood plain now, and then move to the wool (3 turns to get to the wool) Nobody has anything to trade. In a game with raging barbs expect lots of trades because of the AI killing barb camps

Turn 2 2950BC
Makkah grows to 4, luxury flipped to 10% we are losing 1 per turn now, but have 62 in hand. 5 food and 5 shields per turn, Granary in 3, growth in 4 no amount of manipulation can change that yet.
NE Scout NW->NE (on hill to see far)
NW Scout N->NW
SW Scout E->N (back into space)

Turn 3 2900BC
NE Scout NW->N
SW Scout NE->NE
NW Scout W->W
Still feel very tempted to take Spain 22 Gold for Wheel, in a normal game I would take it but here I feel responsible for you guys and pass it up for now, but will take it soon.

Turn 4 2850BC
Worker completes road, decide to irrigate plain on the way to wool, that extra food will be needed before we need the happiness. One gold is nothing at this stage as its so easy to get 25 Gold from a barb camp
NE Scout N->N
NW Scout W (onto mountain)
SW Scout NE->NE (actually fat fingered it, still working in the dark, but the move is ok)

Turn 5 2800BC
I'm sitting here in the dark, only light is from the computer, wind is blowing outside, haunting music from Civ, very atmospheric. Well you have to be there. I'm making the most of my 10 turns.
Disaster hits, Disease!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What can you do, we'll be losing 2 population, we have to work the FP. That's life, sorry that's Civ.



Bingo, lights come back before I get a chance to move.

Can't build the Settler now, we'll be down to 3 pop, decide to build at least one warrior then think about the Settler. Worker start irrigating the plains.
NW Scout W (onto hill)
NE Scout N->NE (see border edge of new Civ)
SW Scout W->N (maybe another border, hard to tell if I know this civ)
Luxury slider back to 0%

Turn 6 2750BC
Mecca back to size 2, oh dear. Grows in 1. Decide to build another scout then warrior, then Settler (maybe)
NW Scout NW->N (see another corner)
NE Scout E -> Meets India they have 10 Gold, need the Wheel
SW Scout NW ish into Zulu territory, wasn't sure who's it was, find Zimbabwe

Turn 7 2700BC
Builds new scout, going to look South
New Scout S->S
SW Scout W->W through Zulu
NE Scout N (onto mountain)
NW Scout NW->N Meets France, give them Pottery for 10 Gold
Switch Mecca not to work goats so we can grow in 2

Turn 8 2650BC
NW Scout W->W
New Scout S->S See olives looks like a great location for second city, already new that with the FPs (disease aside)
SW Scout NW-N
NE Scout W
Notice that Spain now have Wheel and all gold gone, I told you, should have trusted my instincts

Turn 9 2600BC
NW Scout N->N
Warrior compelte irrigation of plain, now roads it, we only just need to push the slider again
New Scout S-SE
NE Scout N->NW (see goody hut, oh goody goody)
SW Scout N->NW

Turn 10 2550BC
Build Warrior, decide to make him have a look NE
NE Scout gets Settler from hut. I'm going to give the next guy a chance to decide what to do, I would settle him in place.



New Scout E->S
SW Scout E->NW
NW Scout N->N
Switched Mecca to Settler, gets it in about 5, Meccas will be size 6 nearly 7 at that time.

Losing 5 Gold per turn, 60 in the bank, Myst in 5. The Disease really killed us, but we can pull this back.



Late in the day, need to stop now. Will fix the typos and mistakes tomorrow.

.SAV

Smackster

AlanH
smackster
Karasu (Playing Now)
Alweth (Ondeck - will play 10)
MacBaldrick

Bummer about the disease. That really sucks about FP starts. You guys really have a black cloud over your head.

About the free settler, I would move him. One tile in almost any direction is better than where he stands in the picture. SE is on the river and gets FP immediately. SW or NW get to the coast (not as important since your homeland's won't have any coastal towns for a while.) NE or E gets the sheep.

If you're willing to gamble you could move three tiles SE, SE, S. This would but ivory in your second radius, be on the river, get three FP and a goat. If India still only has 1 town, an embassy now will tell you how close to their settler they are so you can see how much of a risk it is to walk that far.

I did actually push him one south, towards the river already

So he's standing on the FP now?

@smackster

Good job under trying conditions . I love the atmospherics. I didn't notice the music was on, as I always have my speakers muted. I did turn animations on, though, so if anyone prefers them switched off, feel free to do so. I don't trust myself to spot AI movements without them.

I notice you stuck to maximum research speed. On the later techs I usually go for the 10% approach and build a cash mountain for trading. I'll be interested to see how this plays out. We should be in good shape to trade Mysticism in a few turns, as long as someone has something we need. High priorities for us are Iron and Writing, I guess, plus HBR.

Originally posted by ControlFreak
Bummer about the disease. That really sucks about FP starts. You guys really have a black cloud over your head.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but never mind, we'll be pumping poulation like fury now. We just lost four turns on our worker and settler production schedule .

About the free settler, I would move him. One tile in almost any direction is better than where he stands in the picture. SE is on the river and gets FP immediately. SW or NW get to the coast (not as important since your homeland's won't have any coastal towns for a while.) NE or E gets the sheep.

If you're willing to gamble you could move three tiles SE, SE, S. This would but ivory in your second radius, be on the river, get three FP and a goat.

Click to expand...

If we are going to settle locally think I favour S, SW. That gets us on the coast, with flood plains. There's not much point in snagging the ivory as it will only help this town. We will not have a land route to Makkah for a long time, and the coast gives us a better chance, with Map Making not so far away.

The reason I say "if" is I'm not sure what we are going to do with this city. It's a long way from home, and it's going to need defence or else it will just be easy meat for the Indians, but building and moving spears from Makkah would take for ever and divert Makkah from its main task of building a homeland core. Until this city gets a forbidden palace it will suffer major distance corruption, so its productivity will be lousy, and building its own defences will also take a while, during which it can't start the Palace prebuild. It will also need a worker or two to irrigate the flood plains. I guess the best way to go is to build a spear first, then a worker to get it growing as fast as possible, since food doesn't suffer from corruption, then use some pop rushes to produce some more defence, then start the Palace. Meanwhile we could keep in mind a requirement to get a coastal city nearer to Makkah so that when we get Map Making we can establish a sea trade route.

But I have no experience of trying to settle this far from home this early in the game. Anyone?

If India still only has 1 town, an embassy now will tell you how close to their settler they are so you can see how much of a risk it is to walk that far.

Click to expand...

Sorry, no embassy, we haven't learnt how to write yet. Even if we did see a settler near to completion we wouldn't know whether he would prioritise the spot we have in mind.

Since we can't see into the Indian territory right now, we don't know if a settler is already on the way. If he isn't then we would get there first anyway. The AI seldom settles within existing cultural borders this early, so it would take three turns for the Indian settler to get to a spot. We can hedge our bets. Move the settler south next turn and move the scout towards Delhi. The scout will then be able to see into Delhi on the subsequent turn to tell us whether there's a settler moving to beat us. If there is, we go south west for a coastal city. If not we still have the choice.

I shouldn't get to hung up about using our 'free' city as even if moving down to the river/coast location is hardly wonderfull and we may be hemmed in by the Indians.

IMHO build defensive units till size 3 then go for a settler to build another city. Choices are 1/ build towards core then use worker to link by road. Repeat in new city till we link to expanding core - 2/ build city chain across to other coast to hem in the Indians 3/ occupy as much good land as possible to cramp Indian development. With so much dessert to S & W I would go with latter.

Either way a long term back-burner project unless we reveal some important resource.

Have we decided / agree where to settle next and in what order (each player's choice but guidance with underlying thinking would be nice) ? Need to check close in terrain for good sites.

PS Pure guess as to presence of oil but this is a Cracker scenario

Originally posted by AlanH
@smackster
I notice you stuck to maximum research speed. On the later techs I usually go for the 10% approach and build a cash mountain for trading. I'll be interested to see how this plays out. We should be in good shape to trade Mysticism in a few turns, as long as someone has something we need. High priorities for us are Iron and Writing, I guess, plus HBR.

Click to expand...

Just left it where it is. In fact if the disease had not hit I think we would have got it by now. Then would have turned on 40 turns for Poly. I like Poly as the AI often does not get it. The others would have got Iron and Writing for us. But we can go either way.

Originally posted by AlanH
@smackster
But I have no experience of trying to settle this far from home this early in the game. Anyone?

Click to expand...

Just build two warriors, then temple, then spear, then workers, then settlers. If 32 barb horses come near, gift it to the Zulu's.
It was free so nothing to lose. Corruption will be very bad so it isn't much use. Now with the temple the culture will grow and grow to help our domination limit

One thing we should note on this game is that the growth rate is slow, see how the AI has settled so few cities and are behind already.

Sorry about suggesting embassy without writing. I'm good for a few boneheaded comments.

The only experience I had with a far away city was in my QSC entry for this very game so it's sort of spoiler info for you. I got a free CITY on the very end of the Roman pennisula. I didn't even have the choice to move it. I did as smackster suggested and built warriors and a temple. Then switched to spears, occationally rushing with pop. I made sure to keep the Romans on my side during wars so they wouldn't gobble it up. My plan was to get a leader and move the palace to this far away city to take advantage of the city rank bug. I ran out of RL time and had very bad leader luck. Maybe you guys would to better.

In my preparation for that, I ran very tight city spacing, no more than three tiles all around my FP city (built in the olive grove). If I could have pulled it off, I would have had a ton of rank 1 cities.

About the civ growth: The AI try to build settlers from every town AFAIK. On this desert map dotted with food bonuses there is a tendency to see the sheild power of the bonuses rather than the food power. Failing to prioritize a "settler factory" is a big disadvantage. I think that is the reason for the slow growth. Once they develop enough towns on food bonuses, they will start reproducing rapid, would be my guess.

We should consider the "free settler" as a repayment by the gods of the RNG for taking two citizens away from us. I'm pretty sure I popped the same hut in my QSC and got a conscript warrior, and I played on until 1200 AD and never saw any flood plain disease at all. In any case, we should take it and make the most of it. I'm reassured that you guys think we can get it to produce. At least its rank corruption factor will be low for a while, until the core has grown a bit.

Have we decided / agree where to settle next and in what order (each player's choice but guidance with underlying thinking would be nice) ? Need to check close in terrain for good sites.

Click to expand...

I'd like to see a bit more terrain to get a good dot map aroud Makkah, but if I had to settle a city now I'd go for S, S, SW, or S, S, SW, SW if you prefer a bit more distance (I like three tiles, specially as they are on the same side of the river) . I know it's on the flood plains again, but it gives us two places to expand population fast, it's in reach of the olives with a cheap or rush temple build, and has plenty of two-food tiles to work until we can get some worker action going down there. Other options are W, W, NW to grab some olives and to grow towards Carthage, or N, N, N to get to the goats and to point towards Persia.

@smackster: Note that your timeline turn dates are wrong. After 2750 you were running 40 years per turn, hence your save file is 2590 BC, but your last turn reported is 2550 BC. Also, we are only 4 turns from Mysticism, not 5. You're forgiven, of course, lateness of the hour, strange Halloween conditions and all