Fallout: Tame The Wastes

Spoiler :
One thing that would make melee stand out more is making the only units to have leech. Makes sense to me that these guys would be munching on guys since they get up close and personal with them. Reminds me of my New Vegas character who would go around smashing peoples faces in with her Super Sledge and fists then after battle having a quick snack to heal.


Yeah I haven't really decided what to do specifically with cannabalism, I just put leech in to see if I could merge it successfully, but my promos guy was (and is) on a break, so I just left it at that for now, i could disable it till it is ready but pfff... Chances are Cannabalism will be limited to certain specialist units.

Spoiler :
Perhaps at least have you able to destroy cites near the start? I say this because it seems you can just spam cities to grab what you want with no fear of anyone stopping you once you have the city down. Maybe make it so you cant take a civs capital though?


This would require some special coding, we might be able to do it.. I don't know. I think however that getting a city 'down' is (or will be when we finish) much harder, so the reward in the early game is that you are safe in your town for a time. One feature I thought about trying to get hold of is in certain mods like AND you can build a gatehouse, and then an enemy cannot attack the town until the defense drops below a certain level, so undefended towns can be taken instantly, but ones with walls you will need some heavy weapons to bombard it first.
With all the Barbs and DOps and animals about though, getting that city down is a much more challenging process, so spamming should be more limited, maybe settlers need to take longer to build if they are churning out too fast..

Spoiler :
I found explorers are really good for escorting settlers. I had to use these guys to settle into a vault that was really far away. The Master had me squished in a corner of the continent and there was only a gap of 1 tile left in the south the squeeze through so I figured I had to force my way through and found a city on the other side of the Master so I could reach other civs and continue my growth. In the end I kinda had a second empire that was on the other side of the masters land. They had to get their own resources until the master was kind enough to link me some roads up


You highlight a very good point here that escaped my attention, Settlers need to be able to move freely through enemy land, as otherwise a faction can get boxed in and not grow (which actually happens in tension in all my tests and it just never occured to me that the settlers could not go anywhere!) I will also (if I did not do it already) be using caravan techs that will allow trade routes on various land tiles (like with rivers, coasts and oceans) so that when you have sufficiently advanced caravan logistics you will be able to connect far away settlements without having to run a road all the way. I don't no whether it will allow connection through enemy land though.. something to be explored in the future!

Spoiler :
I know in Rise of Mankind: A new dawn they have it so cottages don't upgrade until you reach a certain tech maybe you could look into how they do that and apply it to the improvements in this?

Yeah a lot of the big mods already have this feature (which is why it was a surprise when I noticed it was not there)
Now that I have a coder, we may be able to do that, it used to be that I would only have a chance of merging something if it was a stand alone mod comp.

Spoiler :
I think the first place I saw the minigun was in rotary weapons. If you mouse over it though it does say the other techs you need but even though I seem to have them I still couldn't build him.


Hmm.. that is strange, I don't know why it would be like that, the only other thing I can think of is that it might need Adv. Munitions Resource, do you have that? You can build other Power Armours right?
If all that is true then I really don't know what has happened...Something must be wrong with that unit but I don't know what as it doesn't give any errors.. so it should be fine..

Spoiler :
Time to start a game as the raiders! I'm going to try out the melee line this time and try and be as much of a bastard as possible as raiders should be.


Yeah Raiders get 100% boost for all their pillaging, so you don't really need to declare war, just build loads of DOps and go pillaging and slaving everybodies workers! :p
 
Just a quick post while I'm playing. My idea about rushing out explorers to escort settlers. It worked very well. I'm playing on prince on great plains.

I rushed to get explorers explored with them while teching to settlers.

Once I got them I would just send explorers back to grab a settler somewhere good then settle and just leave the city to grow and build. I focused on cutting the map in half so basically I have the whole of the west to myself. I'm lucky to start where I did as it seems the mid west part of the great plains is the best place to start. All those ruins to fuel your economy.

Yeah so its turn 311 and I have 17 cities I think something like that. That's more than everyone else put together x2 :eek: the whole of the west map is mine. Nows its time to develop those cities and land. You may be wondering what my science is like well its fine at 30% right now I could probably run it fine at -gold but I never like seeing myself lose money. I think the free scientists and other specialists have been helping pick up the lack oh and I suppose my thieves that have been destroying everyone's lands have been helping me stay afloat. I've also been selling techs for gold or bullying The Master my closest neighbor.

Poor mutants. The things I've done to them. He must have a bad start or something for what ever reason he didn't build workers for soooooo long and by the time he did I had slavers just grabbing his workers as they came out the city. I've also settled around his borders and pushed them back so his capital is working only the first ring on two sides of it. Maybe I can culture flip it in time. :D

Another reason I've noticed for why the great plains map favors the west is there is just no room in east. Take poor John Bishop on my map. He's got no room at all to expand he's just stuck in the bottom right corner. He might be able to get one or two cities out. This might not be a problem or bigger map sizes (I'm playing on standard)

On the topic of expansion the AI really needs to get new frontiers faster. The only person in the game other than me to have more that one cite is the tribals and I'm guessing that's only because they get them early.

Ok so that wasn't a quick post in the end >_< well one turn off slave catchers! Back too it. Just in time too sheriffs have started ruining my fun these slave catchers should be able to stand up to them :D
 
Great! All this information is great to hear and know!

I have never really been a fan of the great plains map, it is a bit poop..I think it would be better if everyone started on the same side of the map.

Yeah I suggest to get the full feel you should play on really big maps, the plan eventually is that I want people to still be trying to reach and colonise the East in the 3rd+ era, taking forever to journey across in any meaningful way, and using Derigible convoys and vertibirds to get out there.

Small maps are good for testing combat and other concepts that need close proximity to opponents though.

I will look into New Frontiers, I probably need to tweak the AI to value it more like I had to for Assigned Tasks, I may increase it's prereq's as well to make it harder to beeline. I'll look into that.

With the mutants it maybe that they did not have a lot of food and so grew very slowly, which would mean they would not have enough city size to make space for a worker, if it got combat units early and built one.. maybe..

I will probably look at modifying explorers, maybe reducing their numbers so you can't have as many for the settler exploit.. not sure what I could do to fix that, as they were designed to be able to survive animal attacks for exploring, not for settler escort..

Also don't forget, Security have Combat Bonuses against DOps!

I think I will also look at making cities and things more expensive, so that you cannot just Spam found without developing the economy, without completely crippling yourself in the process, so that expansion is a more balanced and difficult process, as you are protected from animals as well, so that removes a lot of threat early on for small cities.. A developed economy needs to be much more crucial for expansion.
 
I don't think the explorers escorting settlers is that big of a deal. You could get similar results with any unit really you'd just have to make a bunch of them and it'd be slower. If anything it makes sense who would be best to go with a bunch of civilians going to build a new settlement? The wilderness expert of course! If there were barbs that could come in my land and raze cities that would have slowed me down a lot more. Right now I can just settle a city and leave it. If I had to supply it with units and actively defend it I wouldn't be able to spam cities as much.

The more I think about it the more I like the gatehouse idea or something similar to it. Maybe something like the barricade stops units from entering until its down. This way a fresh city that's just been planted isn't invincible. Maybe make it so you can only raze cities until a certain tech that way you can't just grab good cities you'd have settle the land yourself. Perhaps too have it so cities are razed 1pop at a time like in civ5 so you'd have to take time destroying the city. That gives people a chance to take it back. I do think the capital should get some kind of special protection though so you can't just raze it at the start. Probably make it so you have to have the conquest tech to take someone out of the game. Just had another thought :D what if cities founded on a vault had some extra security? They could just close the vault door right? Maybe you'd need a tech to crack the door or something. Just throwing ideas out there :D
 
yeah vaults have got a whole heap of special buildings that they will have eventually that will generally be better non-vault buildings. Including a big ass door! I remember from Fallout tactics to get into vault 00 or is it vault 01? you have to drive a giant nuclear warhead up to it and then... duck!

All those ideas for cities are good, but unfortunately it would require a lot of coding, it is probably possible.. The Next Big Release is hopefully going to be focussing on economy, so I will probably make cities really expensive to run, so like i said if you expand too quickly your economy ends up in the toilet and everything falls apart!
 
the dyntraits code is not fully working yet, some bits have been removed and then marked as fallout content, because we don't have a particular trait, but I put a pause on it, because it was a much bigger job to get it functional than I thought it would be. In truth I know very little about what it does (code wise) I just gave it to flitz and said MAKE IT WORK!! and he said ok :D

Yeah I need the brain power to sit and pick at your source code, as a lot of the time I look at code and just go ow! I need the english version :D hehe

Our next big move hopefully (after we get some bits tied up and hopefully integrate it better with ai) is economic stuff, overhaulling building abilities and the like so we can shake up how the wasteland economy functions, but I need flitz to work his magics before I can do that :D
 
I deleted k-fallout and re-downloaded and installed and now it crashes as soon as I get to selecting countries. Didn't there used to be a separate 'Art' part of the download?
 
FREAKIN' IDIOT!!! I changed the system to only have 2 parts, as it actually worked out smaller.. then like the genius i am I somehow managed to not link to the right file! I am amazed that it downloaded anything at all.

the good news is that if you look in the assets folder, you should see an art.rar, uncompress that and HOPEFULLY life should be fine!

The Download should now be fixed to point to the right file!!
 
oki, the platform is ready,

this is what it includes:
1. jculture and j improvement mods (its instead of super forts - u can replace it with super by compare )
2. hated civs/favorite civs
3. fresh water mod - water from improvements + no fresh water from lakes or ocean
4. extended mountains mod - aloow pass on mountains, improvements tags and resources.
5. free tech from building tag (not implemented)
6. city unit and city size prereq (not implemented)
7. terrain health good/bad
8. unit prereq civic
9. specialist hsppiness/unhappiness
10. 50 civs on a map
11. woc tga index
12. unique civ project
13. project free unit
14. project help tag
15. kmod 1.41
16. slavery mod
17. extra pillage - 1.6 (i updated yours)
18. replaceble buildings
19. tlo promotion tags
20. native route mod
21. Civic Specialist Yield & Commerce Chan
22. platyping user interface / or bug interface (u can choose)

ill upload it for you this weekend.
 
Nice one!

There are definately some bits in there that sound interesting, the water one was one we talked about before.

Have you seen the Jcombo mod, it combines 4 of his mods, one of which I don't think you have, to do with cities. There are a couple things missing from the J version compared to Super Forts, like vision range from improvements, I use that so it would be missed, but there are some nice things from j that I would like, I wonder if we could combine the two?...

the (not implemented) ones, does that mean they don't work or just that you haven't used them in your mod? because I have the size prereq one in FTTW, at the moment it is linked to our popcost mod, though so it needs a bit of seperating out to be more flexible.

In the Archid slavery mod (I don't know which one you are using, but htat is the one we have) it has both unit and building civic prereqs, that also shut down if you change the civic, it is quite a neat feature!

I have been watching the platy interface stuff, a lot of it looks pretty cool, I am at the point where I don't know which to use, I have stuck with BUG because I am too lazy to change and undo or merge things. :D

I couldn't find any info on the extended mountains mod...

Specialist enhancement (happiness/unhappiness) also have Health/Unhealth, were you able to better merge it with the kmod code so it properly registers and calculates the impact of multiple specialists like kmod does? (I was too stupid to work out what to change to intgrate it properly, so it is sort of bolted on outside and underneath the proper Kmod stuff. I would also love to be able to get the Health/Happiness integrated with the civic changes as well, so civics can affect happiness and health too for specialists.

Thanks for updating kmod and extrapillage (I was too scared :D)

There are some other interesting bits in there, when you release I will had it over to my code guy (as he actually has the required intelligence to use it :D) and we shall see about updating!

nice one!
 
hey friend,

sorry,
i copied the list from my mod, there im not using all of the parts, but they are all merged and ready to be used, so you can ignore the "not implemented".

the archid slavery - im using yours, along with some merge from the original code - i think theres not too much differ between them

im aware and am a great fan to the jcombo mods.
i forgot to write that im using the jimprovement limi as well.
together the - culture control and improvement limit, are giving almost the same result as super forts - just whiteout the bomb thing vision and upgrade.
combining the two is too hard, you can go ahead and use super forts, you just need to replace and delete the j codes - it will be extremely easy to do if you compare your fallout code.
im using it out of pure habit :)

the mountains - are names mountains back to service - it allowes you to define variuos limitations to units, improvements and bonuses to peaks (you can also found cities on peaks). im using the version made by my old dune wars team - its great.

the health happy for specialists - well ive merged them , and it works well i think, ive been using it for a longtime.

extra pillage - well, it took a while but its good.

platy - well - i had that bug syndrome myself, but, i come to realize that platypings work is far more extensive and great then bug to my taste. its worth the transfer .
plu s- youll be able to use all of his other mod parts - which are plain awesome. with bug - its harder to merge them.


maybe ill find some more small mod parts duing the weekend, im planing on making jculture control optional - storylnes did it in hes iran iraq mod.

probably mid Friday ill upload it .

cheers :)
 
cool, no rush, i will need the help of my code guy.

Yes I know what you mean about BuG and Platy, I have been looking at his new stuff with interest, it was always just far too hard (for me) to remove everything of BuG, but now that you have done it for kmod, I may think about the switch, I like the organisation of the pedia, that is the main one I have been looking at, as in the future we will have a lot of faction specific stuff, so being able to orgainse the units and things in the pedia will be good. To be fair Bug is like 5-10 years old now and when it was first made it was a revolution in game terms :D

Yeah my slavery stuff is just pure archid, he may have released a new version since I added it though, but it is a brilliant modcomp, the civic stuff especially is so cool, we will be using that a lot more in the future, having a lot of civic specific units and buildings, so when it changes if you are not careful half your empire may shut up shop! Also his Invisible stuff that is in there has a lot of use in my mod too :D

Yeah the jcombo stuff I saw that really interested me was the city one, as it has some code that allows you to make terrain and features unfoundable by each civ, currently my founding 'blocks' are done by a bit of python, so being able to move it to the xml and sdk would be great and allow me to do a lot more. Although we do have a map fix connected to it at the moment.. I would have to see about making that work with a different code version. I may well see if flitz can 'harmonise' the jcombo with superforts, I plan to use the extra stuff from superforts a lot in the future, like towns providing defense and being bombardable to give some real urban warfare dynamics!

yeah with the specialist heath and unhappy, when I was merging it I asked karadoc for help, and he said he had changed the ai for specialists, because in vanilla apparently the ai does not calculate the benefit of multiple specialists, only 1, so if the Health/Happiness code is not properly integrated with K's stuff, then the ai will not calculate their impact properly..or something like this.. it all sounded very clever anyway! So if oyu have managed to do that GREAT!

Yeah I really like the extra pillage, that was one of the first bits that went in I think for me, I liked that you could boost pillaging impact by trait, that was one of the main reasons I got it, as I want the Raiders to evolve a pillage economy :D Whats they need they takes! Making stuff is for losers! Stolen has put in his future plans that he wants to merge it with the TLO tags code, which will be cool as I had to remove all the TLO pillage stuff because it conflicted with EP, but TLO has some cool promo additions that I really like!

Ah I wonder if it was the back to service for mountains, I saw it but didn't bother reading too much incase it was the wrong one!

We shall see what the future holds! stay safe!
 
hehe you made me laugh a bit :)

so yeah, but did its share, but platypedia, surpassed it.

i havnt seen the slavery in action, so it must be cool.

i dont remember whats in the combo mod there, last time i cheeked it i had less grey hairs.
id love to see you get the extra stuff, maybe ill switch to it as well later on.

well- not sure how the ai will work the specialists, i just merged the code, and added some values to the different people :)

the extra pillage, also - didnt see it in action, so ill take ur word on it :)

i really like the tlo tags, they are just great.

anyway - ive began to "mine" some stuff from rev dcm - some tags i like - like obselete unit tag, ruthless ai and another tag for buildings. ill hope ill succeed, if i will compile with no errors, and test it , ill continue on to advanced diplomacy.

:)
 
I've got an odd problem; the game seems to load fine, but I only see the map, no data or controls. Even when I double click on a city it goes into the city view overhead mode but doesn't show anything else.

Im having this same problem. I have already tried re-downloading and installing the mod several times, but I have the same problem. I didn't have this problem in the older versions of the mod, for some reason.
 
Aw man!! I really don't know what the issue could be, as not everyone is suffering with the same issue, and I don't have it on my version so I am mighty confused!

I will download it today and see what happens.

Can someone with the issue enable their python logging and post any error messages they get?

It will be located somewhere like here:

C:\Users\John\Documents\my games\Beyond the Sword\CivilizationIV.ini

; Set to 1 for no python exception popups
HidePythonExceptions = 0

I will try downloading the mod today and see if I get the issue.

EDIT: I downloaded it and still didn't have a python issue.. If someone can post any python errors they get, then I might be able to find a solution..

Also, if you switch out the CVGameCoreDLL with the one inside the debug folder, and then report any messages it gives you this may help as well. You can ignore the line: 66 error at the start of loading, that one isn't important.
 
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