Mod Component Requests Thread
- Thread starter Thunderfall
- Start date
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
Damn, beat me to it, I was about to say the exact same thing 
.
Aussie_Lurker.
.Aussie_Lurker.
It would be nice if the following features were implemented:
1. Scorched earth policy - easy ability to destroy own tile improvements & demolish buildings (I know that the later is possible though. The only problem with that is that there is no use for it in terms of scorched earth policy, as when the city is captured, the one who captured it has to rebuild EVERYTHING (as if it was demolished) and that's just sily. It brings me to #2)
2. Change the way capturing cities works in terms of buildings. When a city is captured, the one who captured it should not rbuild all buildings unless they were purposefully demolished by the original owner. To make a cpature more realistic, however some building should be destroyed (especially if artillery/bombardment was used), however some should remain. Otherwise there is not too much sense in capturing and keeping the city...
3. This a rather huge request: I think more techs and more various units should be added. For instance from the current vanilla game and most of the mods I personally did not get a good feeling in terms of progression through history with units. In my opinion it should be like this: warrior/hunter(missile)/sp/ancient spearman -> sowrdsman/axeman/improved spearman/archer/skirmisher/chariot & horse archer (now mounted unit type becomes available due to domestication) -> phalanx/hoplite/hyspast..(sorry never remembered how to spelled it correctly)/juveline/cavalry (not to confuse with gunpowder one)/battering ram (this is probably a good place to introduce seige weapons unit type, battering ram should only be used on cities bomardment, i.e. it cannot attack) - the theme for this age is Greek -> legion/praetorian/+improvements to archers, mounted, and skirmisher units & also introduction of advanced seige weapons (catapult, balista) - this is the Roamn age -> finally we are moving into dark ages -> then to middle ages -> reneissance & exploration & later (first musketteers begin introfuced, conquistador (should get big bonses vs native american units of that time), etc) -> enlightement & into Napoleonic Era (riflemen, calavlry, advanced acnons & other bomb. weapions of that time) -> industrial era (first World War) -> infantry, artillery, advanced gunpowder cavalry, first tanks, biplanes -> World War II - type units -> Cold War-type units -> Modern units -> future units
These are definitive ages from the military perspective. Some of this is already implemented in some mods, however not in as much detail. In particular there's no distinction between early egyptian & babilonian vs greek-style vs roman style eras (its all just one in current versions), also there's no distinction between early & late medieval, there are not that many exploration & enlightment age units, napoleonic times are also lacking - basically just rifleman is clearly not enough, - in fact at that time there were first air baloones made, so theoretically that unit could become available - only for survelence (not bombing) purposes.
Another point to make here is that I think hit points should be altered. Generally they should be extended to around 90 for modern units and up to may be 300 for futuristic units:
warrior = 2
archer = 4
swordsman = 6
phalanx = 9 + strong defence bonuses
legion = 12-13 + offence bonuses
longbowman = 18
maceman = 18
knight = 22
musketman = 25
conquistador = 28
rifleman = 35
infantry = 45
mechnized infantry = 60
IFV = 75
modern armor = 85-90
the above are just proposed values, and by all means they should be refined with certain bonuses and promotions)
also I have trouble with modern era navy: how come destroyers cant attack several times per turn - I think it's just natiural to think that a single destroyer should defeat say 4 galleys nopt just strength-vise but also turn-vise. Same goes for IFV and several other modern units.
AS to the navy, I think ancient navy should do much better - not just galley, but also trireme, quadrireme, etc...
The number of technologies should be increased as well.
4. It seems strange to me that future tech gives just +1 happiness and health - it's a layman's approach. I think there should be more variation - like may be every 5 future techs one hammer is added to every tile or unit cost reduced, or whatever...
5. This is big... You CAN carry over research points to a new tech, however this logic surprisingly does not extend to production...
In some cases you can have the following situation: city production per turn = say 200 hammers, unit cost = 70 hammers => result = waste of 130 hammers -> wrong This is what should happen i think:
Case 1: units: - produce (city production MOD unit cost) units & carry the remainder to the next thing in que: 200 mod 70 = 2 + 60 hammers carried towards next thing => yes 2 items should be produced, or whatever quantity in your case
Case 2: buildings/wonders/projects: obviously you can't have 2 granaries, so show a poup -> the one where you select what to rpoduce next, and just copy the remainder of hammers (city production per turn - completed building cost = remainder) to the neweley selected item (if it's a unit whose cost is still less than a remainder (your city is a production monster) -> then do as in case 1 -> produce more than one unit), if a the next selected item is building start priducting it, carring over the hammers to it (if the cost of it is less than available carried over hammers, then start from the beginning - offer second choose what to build poup, etc...untill the remainder of hammers is exhausted.
I know that what I wrote above is not easy to implement to say the least, but these are just some ideas that I have been playing.
I think Civ IV in terms of technology is a great foundation, however in terms of gameplay soooo many things still need to be done. What I have listed above is just a fraction of it. Howver I hope that in a year or may be more we will see such trully great mod packs.
1. Scorched earth policy - easy ability to destroy own tile improvements & demolish buildings (I know that the later is possible though. The only problem with that is that there is no use for it in terms of scorched earth policy, as when the city is captured, the one who captured it has to rebuild EVERYTHING (as if it was demolished) and that's just sily. It brings me to #2)
2. Change the way capturing cities works in terms of buildings. When a city is captured, the one who captured it should not rbuild all buildings unless they were purposefully demolished by the original owner. To make a cpature more realistic, however some building should be destroyed (especially if artillery/bombardment was used), however some should remain. Otherwise there is not too much sense in capturing and keeping the city...
3. This a rather huge request: I think more techs and more various units should be added. For instance from the current vanilla game and most of the mods I personally did not get a good feeling in terms of progression through history with units. In my opinion it should be like this: warrior/hunter(missile)/sp/ancient spearman -> sowrdsman/axeman/improved spearman/archer/skirmisher/chariot & horse archer (now mounted unit type becomes available due to domestication) -> phalanx/hoplite/hyspast..(sorry never remembered how to spelled it correctly)/juveline/cavalry (not to confuse with gunpowder one)/battering ram (this is probably a good place to introduce seige weapons unit type, battering ram should only be used on cities bomardment, i.e. it cannot attack) - the theme for this age is Greek -> legion/praetorian/+improvements to archers, mounted, and skirmisher units & also introduction of advanced seige weapons (catapult, balista) - this is the Roamn age -> finally we are moving into dark ages -> then to middle ages -> reneissance & exploration & later (first musketteers begin introfuced, conquistador (should get big bonses vs native american units of that time), etc) -> enlightement & into Napoleonic Era (riflemen, calavlry, advanced acnons & other bomb. weapions of that time) -> industrial era (first World War) -> infantry, artillery, advanced gunpowder cavalry, first tanks, biplanes -> World War II - type units -> Cold War-type units -> Modern units -> future units
These are definitive ages from the military perspective. Some of this is already implemented in some mods, however not in as much detail. In particular there's no distinction between early egyptian & babilonian vs greek-style vs roman style eras (its all just one in current versions), also there's no distinction between early & late medieval, there are not that many exploration & enlightment age units, napoleonic times are also lacking - basically just rifleman is clearly not enough, - in fact at that time there were first air baloones made, so theoretically that unit could become available - only for survelence (not bombing) purposes.
Another point to make here is that I think hit points should be altered. Generally they should be extended to around 90 for modern units and up to may be 300 for futuristic units:
warrior = 2
archer = 4
swordsman = 6
phalanx = 9 + strong defence bonuses
legion = 12-13 + offence bonuses
longbowman = 18
maceman = 18
knight = 22
musketman = 25
conquistador = 28
rifleman = 35
infantry = 45
mechnized infantry = 60
IFV = 75
modern armor = 85-90
the above are just proposed values, and by all means they should be refined with certain bonuses and promotions)
also I have trouble with modern era navy: how come destroyers cant attack several times per turn - I think it's just natiural to think that a single destroyer should defeat say 4 galleys nopt just strength-vise but also turn-vise. Same goes for IFV and several other modern units.
AS to the navy, I think ancient navy should do much better - not just galley, but also trireme, quadrireme, etc...
The number of technologies should be increased as well.
4. It seems strange to me that future tech gives just +1 happiness and health - it's a layman's approach. I think there should be more variation - like may be every 5 future techs one hammer is added to every tile or unit cost reduced, or whatever...
5. This is big... You CAN carry over research points to a new tech, however this logic surprisingly does not extend to production...
In some cases you can have the following situation: city production per turn = say 200 hammers, unit cost = 70 hammers => result = waste of 130 hammers -> wrong This is what should happen i think:
Case 1: units: - produce (city production MOD unit cost) units & carry the remainder to the next thing in que: 200 mod 70 = 2 + 60 hammers carried towards next thing => yes 2 items should be produced, or whatever quantity in your case
Case 2: buildings/wonders/projects: obviously you can't have 2 granaries, so show a poup -> the one where you select what to rpoduce next, and just copy the remainder of hammers (city production per turn - completed building cost = remainder) to the neweley selected item (if it's a unit whose cost is still less than a remainder (your city is a production monster) -> then do as in case 1 -> produce more than one unit), if a the next selected item is building start priducting it, carring over the hammers to it (if the cost of it is less than available carried over hammers, then start from the beginning - offer second choose what to build poup, etc...untill the remainder of hammers is exhausted.
I know that what I wrote above is not easy to implement to say the least, but these are just some ideas that I have been playing.
I think Civ IV in terms of technology is a great foundation, however in terms of gameplay soooo many things still need to be done. What I have listed above is just a fraction of it. Howver I hope that in a year or may be more we will see such trully great mod packs.
Also forgot to mention another issue: resources & tile improvements & technologies
1. I think by default (with no appropriate tile improvements on them resources should not chnage the value of a tile at all) I mean how, for instance you can benefit from say gold if you don;t have a mine - it's just not possible in real life.
2. There should be an evolution for all categories of tile improvements. For example - early mine = +1 hammer -> advanced mine = +2 hammers -> modern mine = +3 hammers (the actual hammers, gold, or food should vary of course not just on the level of tile improvement but on the resource, which brings me to #3).
Now second point to mention here is the reason I think the levels of tile improvements approach is better than simply "you discover a tech and say all mines get +1 hammer" is because in real life even if you did discover a tech - you have to implement it - build infrastructrure, which in my example means the mine of the next level. So it's important to actually build the next level tile improvement.
3. The differences between resources in terms of yields should be more pronounced - for instance how come gold and gems in many mods and in vanilla are only a bit different from say wine. Gold & gems are clearly more expensive.
4. Technology should enable tile improvements & new levels of those. It should also enable resources (like i does well already). But in addition it should also include some extra bonuses: like when you discover biology your farns get +1 food (yes it's in the game already, but I think there should be more such techs - i.e. tech that change the yield in some way).
5. Finally I think it's not quite realistuic that: you discovered say iron working, and did not visit some tile outside your borders which has iron (after you discovered iron working), the resource is nonetheless revealed (provided of course you have map info for that tile - either you visited it before you dscovered iron working or may be you traded maps with someone). It's just not realistic - as if by some magic you get knowledge as sson as you discover iron working that somewhere OUTSIDE your borders there's iron.
I think it should work differently: a tech ENABLES and REVEALS resources but only as long as they are within your borders, and may be if yuou have open borders agreement with other civs, then a resource should also be reveled on their territories. The restshould remin hidden until you actually visit a particular tile.
You can make it even stricter - autoreveal resources only if there's line of sight your borders + enemy cities for which you have line of sight (their cities have religion of which the main temple was built in one of your cities).
6. Last but not least - it may be worth considering having several resources on a single tile (obviously compatible resources, i.e. not corn & iron, but say iron & coal, or corn & wheat), so that when you build a tile imp. that enables collection of these resources both are collected.
1. I think by default (with no appropriate tile improvements on them resources should not chnage the value of a tile at all) I mean how, for instance you can benefit from say gold if you don;t have a mine - it's just not possible in real life.
2. There should be an evolution for all categories of tile improvements. For example - early mine = +1 hammer -> advanced mine = +2 hammers -> modern mine = +3 hammers (the actual hammers, gold, or food should vary of course not just on the level of tile improvement but on the resource, which brings me to #3).
Now second point to mention here is the reason I think the levels of tile improvements approach is better than simply "you discover a tech and say all mines get +1 hammer" is because in real life even if you did discover a tech - you have to implement it - build infrastructrure, which in my example means the mine of the next level. So it's important to actually build the next level tile improvement.
3. The differences between resources in terms of yields should be more pronounced - for instance how come gold and gems in many mods and in vanilla are only a bit different from say wine. Gold & gems are clearly more expensive.
4. Technology should enable tile improvements & new levels of those. It should also enable resources (like i does well already). But in addition it should also include some extra bonuses: like when you discover biology your farns get +1 food (yes it's in the game already, but I think there should be more such techs - i.e. tech that change the yield in some way).
5. Finally I think it's not quite realistuic that: you discovered say iron working, and did not visit some tile outside your borders which has iron (after you discovered iron working), the resource is nonetheless revealed (provided of course you have map info for that tile - either you visited it before you dscovered iron working or may be you traded maps with someone). It's just not realistic - as if by some magic you get knowledge as sson as you discover iron working that somewhere OUTSIDE your borders there's iron.
I think it should work differently: a tech ENABLES and REVEALS resources but only as long as they are within your borders, and may be if yuou have open borders agreement with other civs, then a resource should also be reveled on their territories. The restshould remin hidden until you actually visit a particular tile.
You can make it even stricter - autoreveal resources only if there's line of sight your borders + enemy cities for which you have line of sight (their cities have religion of which the main temple was built in one of your cities).
6. Last but not least - it may be worth considering having several resources on a single tile (obviously compatible resources, i.e. not corn & iron, but say iron & coal, or corn & wheat), so that when you build a tile imp. that enables collection of these resources both are collected.
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
hey George, you definitely put forward some good ideas re techs and resources.
I do feel that your point #2 and point #4 are essentially the same, though, in that certain techs will boost the output of various improvements-like mines, quarries and lumberyards for instance. I know that several of my civics options grant boosts to improvements, but techs should do the same.
As far as the value of certain resources go, I think this should stem more from scarcity than the resource in question. For instance, if you have gems a-plenty in your neck of the woods, but only a single source of Vino, then vino should have greater monetary value than gems. However, if you meet a civ who has NO gems whatsoever, then his asking price for them should be quite high-even higher if you are culturally superior to him.
Which begs another question-can anything be done to change resources so that 1 deposit is not neccessarily enough to run a whole empire, and where how much of a resource an empire already has will impact on the value they will place on any additional sources? I would very much like to know.
Aussie_Lurker.
I do feel that your point #2 and point #4 are essentially the same, though, in that certain techs will boost the output of various improvements-like mines, quarries and lumberyards for instance. I know that several of my civics options grant boosts to improvements, but techs should do the same.
As far as the value of certain resources go, I think this should stem more from scarcity than the resource in question. For instance, if you have gems a-plenty in your neck of the woods, but only a single source of Vino, then vino should have greater monetary value than gems. However, if you meet a civ who has NO gems whatsoever, then his asking price for them should be quite high-even higher if you are culturally superior to him
.Which begs another question-can anything be done to change resources so that 1 deposit is not neccessarily enough to run a whole empire, and where how much of a resource an empire already has will impact on the value they will place on any additional sources? I would very much like to know.
Aussie_Lurker.
Definitely this is another great point. In real life resources are scarce, however in Civ, currently they are infinite. So I think that there should be a system which would actually require that for example in order to produce swordsmen in 6 cities you have to have 3 iron deposits and not one.
I also want to get you opinion on my first post, which has ideas regarding other issues - not just resources. I guess I should have made it onepost, but not all ideas come at once
I also want to get you opinion on my first post, which has ideas regarding other issues - not just resources. I guess I should have made it onepost, but not all ideas come at once
Should be able to have a preview of the map area you are about to trade, knowledge of the actual map areas that have been traded and offer certain areas of your map that you can section and select.
For example, you have an offer from your oppenent to give their map for a peace treaty. Sort of have a preview where in the globe that particular map piece would cover, before the trade. You should be able to know how big that oppenent's map is before accepting it.
Also knowing what maps the other guy has given is important too. That way you would know what areas you need to defend and what areas the oppenent has already been to and what areas they might be going towards. If the enemy has no idea that you have an island somewhere, that island might not get discovered for some time. This can become very strategic, from this place you could gather and launch a main force from there and the enemy wouldnt know where its coming from.
This could be done if you can modify the military advisor to show the maps that have been traded from different oppenents. Dont just merge all the maps to your map, but be able to select and see the map that the opponent gave to you. Maybe if by date as well, so you can see the enemy's progress.
Additionally could there be a way to trade only sections of maps? Keeping area 51 a secret base that you decide, by not giving it away that section when you trade maps. If the opponent wants to see that particular spot, make' em work for it. This would be tougher because the A.I. might not realize what part of the map it would need to complete its own map. But it would be good because you could hide allies, resources, forts, and armies there.
Just my thoughts on how to improve this great game.
For example, you have an offer from your oppenent to give their map for a peace treaty. Sort of have a preview where in the globe that particular map piece would cover, before the trade. You should be able to know how big that oppenent's map is before accepting it.
Also knowing what maps the other guy has given is important too. That way you would know what areas you need to defend and what areas the oppenent has already been to and what areas they might be going towards. If the enemy has no idea that you have an island somewhere, that island might not get discovered for some time. This can become very strategic, from this place you could gather and launch a main force from there and the enemy wouldnt know where its coming from.
This could be done if you can modify the military advisor to show the maps that have been traded from different oppenents. Dont just merge all the maps to your map, but be able to select and see the map that the opponent gave to you. Maybe if by date as well, so you can see the enemy's progress.
Additionally could there be a way to trade only sections of maps? Keeping area 51 a secret base that you decide, by not giving it away that section when you trade maps. If the opponent wants to see that particular spot, make' em work for it. This would be tougher because the A.I. might not realize what part of the map it would need to complete its own map. But it would be good because you could hide allies, resources, forts, and armies there.
Just my thoughts on how to improve this great game.
Great idea about how to improve map trading!
I also have several ideas reagrding new technologies. In fact it seemed a bit sad that poeple suggest the way to make games longer is to increase the cost of technologies. I say - more technologies instaed (of course I realize its much more work, but ikn the end it's worth it):
Here are some of the possible paths in various areas of research. I capitalized new techsnologies:
Construction: STONE WORKING -> BRICK MAKING -> masonry -> ARCHITECTURE -> construction -> engineering
Mining: mining -> METAL WORKING -> COPPER SMELTING -> bronze working ->
Sea: ...sailing -> SEAMANSHIP (more adavnced units than galley) -> MAP MAKING (allow map trading) -> HULLMAKING (more advnaced ancient ships)
...horseback riding -> HORSE ARMOR -> STIRRUP (knight)
...wheel -> TRADE (enables trade)
Agriculture: agriculture ->... WATER LIFTS/IRRIGATION ->... AGRICULTURAL REVOLUTION
And these techs should also make its way into the game (I just didn't quite know where it's best to put them)
-dark ages (req for feudalism)
-geometry (req for contruction)
-alchemy (req for chemistry)
-republic
-ethics
-wood working (stockade - prdecessor to city wall)
-herbalism (req. mysticism +new wonder: Valley of the kings, +new building: apothecary)
-plumbing (bath house building)
These are just for the early game, and if these are added, I am sure it will be more fun to play.
I took most of these from a great mod for CTP2 (Call to Power II) Ages of Man.
I also have several ideas reagrding new technologies. In fact it seemed a bit sad that poeple suggest the way to make games longer is to increase the cost of technologies. I say - more technologies instaed (of course I realize its much more work, but ikn the end it's worth it):
Here are some of the possible paths in various areas of research. I capitalized new techsnologies:
Construction: STONE WORKING -> BRICK MAKING -> masonry -> ARCHITECTURE -> construction -> engineering
Mining: mining -> METAL WORKING -> COPPER SMELTING -> bronze working ->
Sea: ...sailing -> SEAMANSHIP (more adavnced units than galley) -> MAP MAKING (allow map trading) -> HULLMAKING (more advnaced ancient ships)
...horseback riding -> HORSE ARMOR -> STIRRUP (knight)
...wheel -> TRADE (enables trade)
Agriculture: agriculture ->... WATER LIFTS/IRRIGATION ->... AGRICULTURAL REVOLUTION
And these techs should also make its way into the game (I just didn't quite know where it's best to put them)
-dark ages (req for feudalism)
-geometry (req for contruction)
-alchemy (req for chemistry)
-republic
-ethics
-wood working (stockade - prdecessor to city wall)
-herbalism (req. mysticism +new wonder: Valley of the kings, +new building: apothecary)
-plumbing (bath house building)
These are just for the early game, and if these are added, I am sure it will be more fun to play.
I took most of these from a great mod for CTP2 (Call to Power II) Ages of Man.
chef pablo
Warlord
How hard would it be to make a building need a spacific resorce and that building use that entire resorce.
my thinking is this if you want to produce an axman that axman would require an ax resorce created in an ax smithy,that required and used an entire copper sorce.the building improvement itself could be cheap to make maybee something like 10 hammers,but it would use the entire resorce.
this could be applied to lux resorces as well.
Just an old idea that i put a new twist on.
my thinking is this if you want to produce an axman that axman would require an ax resorce created in an ax smithy,that required and used an entire copper sorce.the building improvement itself could be cheap to make maybee something like 10 hammers,but it would use the entire resorce.
this could be applied to lux resorces as well.
Just an old idea that i put a new twist on.
Dom Pedro II
Modder For Life
chef pablo: see TheLopez's Building Resource Converter
It allows for exactly what you're asking for.
It allows for exactly what you're asking for.
A few ideas about NEW specialists:
farmer = +2 food, +2 gold, +2 birth rate
great farmer = +3 food, +3 gold, +2 health, +3 birth rate; special building: build irrigation/advanced farm building in city (+25% food); special action: build special advanced farm tile improvement (+8 food)
entertainer = +1 happy, +2 gold, +2 birth rate
great entertainer = +2 happy, +3 gold, +5 culture, +3 birth rate; special building: entertainment center (+3 happy); spcial action: no unhappy faces in city for 10 turns
doctor = +1 health, +2 science, +2 birth rate
great doctor = +3 health, +3 science, +3 birth rate; special building: farmacy (no health problems from diseases (if this feature is added in mods) or no health problems from certain cause (i.e. polution for example)); special action: no unhelathy faces for 15 turns
I noticed that people came uop with statesman & great staesman, as well as soldier & general - these are great as well. I hope that most of the mods will use these and mine.
Thanks.
farmer = +2 food, +2 gold, +2 birth rate
great farmer = +3 food, +3 gold, +2 health, +3 birth rate; special building: build irrigation/advanced farm building in city (+25% food); special action: build special advanced farm tile improvement (+8 food)
entertainer = +1 happy, +2 gold, +2 birth rate
great entertainer = +2 happy, +3 gold, +5 culture, +3 birth rate; special building: entertainment center (+3 happy); spcial action: no unhappy faces in city for 10 turns
doctor = +1 health, +2 science, +2 birth rate
great doctor = +3 health, +3 science, +3 birth rate; special building: farmacy (no health problems from diseases (if this feature is added in mods) or no health problems from certain cause (i.e. polution for example)); special action: no unhelathy faces for 15 turns
I noticed that people came uop with statesman & great staesman, as well as soldier & general - these are great as well. I hope that most of the mods will use these and mine.
Thanks.
I will expand on the new techs a bit:
-> - these describe the flow of techs
() - these are just some comments
[]-these describe possible effect
currently existing techs are lower case
NEW TECHS ARE UPPER CASE
- Hunting -> COOKING [health +1, may be something else]
- CLOTHING [happyness +1]
- CERAMICS -> pottery
- TOOLMAKING [ancient spearman unit, tool smithy (req. metal working): +5% production]
- STONEWORKING [enables stone, allows quarry on stone] -> BRICK MAKING -> masonry [enables marble, allows quarry on marble]
- agriculture -> ADVANCED FARMING (to account for invention of irrgation and ploughs) [farms +1 food]
- fishing -> sailing -> MAP MAKING [allow map trading]
- pottery -> wheel -> ROADS (to account for invention of engineered roads and carts AFTER the inv. of wheel which was first used in potter's equipment) [enables road improvement]
- ... -> HYGENE (perhaps a better name should be used for this; this is to account ofr invention of soap and sewage systems) [specail building: sewers: health +2]
- masonry -> GLASS [may be some wonder that increases culture] -> GLASS BLOWING [may be health +1, as glass pottery is much cleaner than clay]
- calendar -> WATER CLOCK/TIME MEASURING -> CITY CLOCK (much later obviously) [City Clock building +10% commerce, 2 culture]
- CLOTHING -> FIBER MAKING (to account for invention of cloth from flax and invention of silk) [enables silk & plantation, new wonder: Silk Road (silk planation +10 gold), may be new resource: flax)
- currency -> COINS [+1 free trade route in every city, +15% output to market building; enables sugar resource & plantation (this is not ideal place for it, as in reality sugar was inevented some 500 years later) ]
- ... -> SIEGE WEAPONS [catapult & ancient terbuschet units]
New techs so far - 17:
Cooking, Clothing, Ceramics, Toolmaking, Stoneworking, Brick making, Advanced farming, Map making, Roads, Sewers/Heygene, Glass, Glass blowing, Water clock/Time measuring, City clock, Fiber making, Coins, Siege weapons
These are just some new techs and their effects that would improve the game for the BC era. I will write the AD techs sometime later.
-> - these describe the flow of techs
() - these are just some comments
[]-these describe possible effect
currently existing techs are lower case
NEW TECHS ARE UPPER CASE
- Hunting -> COOKING [health +1, may be something else]
- CLOTHING [happyness +1]
- CERAMICS -> pottery
- TOOLMAKING [ancient spearman unit, tool smithy (req. metal working): +5% production]
- STONEWORKING [enables stone, allows quarry on stone] -> BRICK MAKING -> masonry [enables marble, allows quarry on marble]
- agriculture -> ADVANCED FARMING (to account for invention of irrgation and ploughs) [farms +1 food]
- fishing -> sailing -> MAP MAKING [allow map trading]
- pottery -> wheel -> ROADS (to account for invention of engineered roads and carts AFTER the inv. of wheel which was first used in potter's equipment) [enables road improvement]
- ... -> HYGENE (perhaps a better name should be used for this; this is to account ofr invention of soap and sewage systems) [specail building: sewers: health +2]
- masonry -> GLASS [may be some wonder that increases culture] -> GLASS BLOWING [may be health +1, as glass pottery is much cleaner than clay]
- calendar -> WATER CLOCK/TIME MEASURING -> CITY CLOCK (much later obviously) [City Clock building +10% commerce, 2 culture]
- CLOTHING -> FIBER MAKING (to account for invention of cloth from flax and invention of silk) [enables silk & plantation, new wonder: Silk Road (silk planation +10 gold), may be new resource: flax)
- currency -> COINS [+1 free trade route in every city, +15% output to market building; enables sugar resource & plantation (this is not ideal place for it, as in reality sugar was inevented some 500 years later) ]
- ... -> SIEGE WEAPONS [catapult & ancient terbuschet units]
New techs so far - 17:
Cooking, Clothing, Ceramics, Toolmaking, Stoneworking, Brick making, Advanced farming, Map making, Roads, Sewers/Heygene, Glass, Glass blowing, Water clock/Time measuring, City clock, Fiber making, Coins, Siege weapons
These are just some new techs and their effects that would improve the game for the BC era. I will write the AD techs sometime later.
I have a few suggestions about line of sight/visible active tiles:
1. May be it's not realistic that ANY tile within cult. borders is active (meaning you see what's going on in there). I think it should only be active if it's within city radius, or within tile improvement's, unit's line of sight, otherwise it should be explored but darkened. This way if for example enmy units will enter you won't see them - it's realistic.
2. Another thing I don't understand is why when you research sattelites you don't get line of sight for entire map, instead, the map just becomes explored. This is silly. I think when you dscover sattelights it makes more sense to: a) be able to build national wonder Globe Sat (makes entire map visible as if you had units all over the map (no darkened tiles), b) still require resource discovery like I described in my previous post on resources, so that you don't just discover that aha - enemy has oil there, or there is alluminum on that unsettled island - no-no - you have to actually visit the tile with your units to discover, or use scouts/explorers, AFTER you discovered enabling tech for that resource, to discover that resource (for scouts & explorers it's enough to have a resource in line of sight in order to discover it, for all other units, they have to be present on resource's tile).
So making resources discoverable by visiting tiles will not only make open border agreements more useful, but will also make scounts and explorers more useful.
I think it will make game more realistic.
1. May be it's not realistic that ANY tile within cult. borders is active (meaning you see what's going on in there). I think it should only be active if it's within city radius, or within tile improvement's, unit's line of sight, otherwise it should be explored but darkened. This way if for example enmy units will enter you won't see them - it's realistic.
2. Another thing I don't understand is why when you research sattelites you don't get line of sight for entire map, instead, the map just becomes explored. This is silly. I think when you dscover sattelights it makes more sense to: a) be able to build national wonder Globe Sat (makes entire map visible as if you had units all over the map (no darkened tiles), b) still require resource discovery like I described in my previous post on resources, so that you don't just discover that aha - enemy has oil there, or there is alluminum on that unsettled island - no-no - you have to actually visit the tile with your units to discover, or use scouts/explorers, AFTER you discovered enabling tech for that resource, to discover that resource (for scouts & explorers it's enough to have a resource in line of sight in order to discover it, for all other units, they have to be present on resource's tile).
So making resources discoverable by visiting tiles will not only make open border agreements more useful, but will also make scounts and explorers more useful.
I think it will make game more realistic.
I really loved Call to Power and Call to Power II for their special units. I am surprised that besides spy and missionaries there are none… I think more special units are needed either in the form of regular units like spy (ones that can be produced) or in the form of great people.
Here my proposals for the types of units. Almost all of these act on cities other than owner’s and most of the units are stealth.
- Units that affect health of enemy city. Ex: infector
- Units that affect happiness of enemy city. Ex:
- Units that steal commerce/production/science/food
- Units that reduce commerce/production/science/food
- Units that can destroy buildings
- Units that can stop the production
- Units that can spread owners culture into enemy city
- Units that can reduce hit points of military units
- Other special units
And here are a few examples of actual units:
- Diplomat – can conduct a special mission in the other player’s city – hold reception for gold, which increases the friendliness of that player to you
- Abolitionist – frees slaves from enemy cities (Slave is a new type of citizen that is available with slavery, that needs half the food of normal citizen to support it and can be acquired with Slavery civic on and whenever a military unit wins a battle and a slave master unit was in the stack)
- Corporate Branch – can steal commerce for x turns
- Lawyer – can remove negative effects of corporate branches
- Migrant – can transfer population from one city to another
- Revolutionary – create revolt (this of course has high probability of failure; the probability of success should depend upon how much of the enemy city has the culture of the player who attempts to create revolt, i.e. if your culture is 70% in the enemy city, the chances for revolt are high)
- Slave master – can enslave defeated units
- Televangelist – can convert city to your religion (removes all other religions)
Here my proposals for the types of units. Almost all of these act on cities other than owner’s and most of the units are stealth.
- Units that affect health of enemy city. Ex: infector
- Units that affect happiness of enemy city. Ex:
- Units that steal commerce/production/science/food
- Units that reduce commerce/production/science/food
- Units that can destroy buildings
- Units that can stop the production
- Units that can spread owners culture into enemy city
- Units that can reduce hit points of military units
- Other special units
And here are a few examples of actual units:
- Diplomat – can conduct a special mission in the other player’s city – hold reception for gold, which increases the friendliness of that player to you
- Abolitionist – frees slaves from enemy cities (Slave is a new type of citizen that is available with slavery, that needs half the food of normal citizen to support it and can be acquired with Slavery civic on and whenever a military unit wins a battle and a slave master unit was in the stack)
- Corporate Branch – can steal commerce for x turns
- Lawyer – can remove negative effects of corporate branches
- Migrant – can transfer population from one city to another
- Revolutionary – create revolt (this of course has high probability of failure; the probability of success should depend upon how much of the enemy city has the culture of the player who attempts to create revolt, i.e. if your culture is 70% in the enemy city, the chances for revolt are high)
- Slave master – can enslave defeated units
- Televangelist – can convert city to your religion (removes all other religions)
It strikes me that at least in the vanilla version of Civ, there are many civics, but many of them work just on the variables – culture, commerce, production, science, as if there’s nothing else they could do. Example is slavery. I propose a change:
When Slavery is enabled:
1. A new citizen type is available – slave. Slaves consumes only half the food a regular citizen consumes, it can be implemented either as a merged “great person” into the city or as actual worker which contributes to the city size (I personally prefer this one). Slave also cannot be unhappy. So if city size is 20, and there are 6 slaves, and the total happiness is -18, 6 slaves will work, and 2 citizens will work.
2. If the ratio of slaves to military units present is less than 2 to 1, there are more than 2 times more slaves, a city has a small chance of revolting and becoming a barbarian state, as this ratio increases, the chance for revolt also increases.
3. A slave master unit is available for production. It can capture defeated foes and trun them into laves by sending them to the nearest city.
4. Whenever slave master is present in the stack of units that either attack or defend, if the foe is defeated, he’s turned into slave.
5. Abolitionist (see my previous post) can free slaves
6. Special wonder – Worldwide Emancipation Act is available with democracy and emancipation civic can free slaves world-wide – in all states, and slavery civic becomes obsolete
7. When slaves are freed: half of them disappears (effective city size and power is reduced), the other half becomes regular citizens (consume normal food amounts) and are unhappy for 15 turns and refuse to work, also causing every 3rd normal citizen (which was a citizen before emancipation) to be unhappy as well, after that – they become regular citizens.
When Slavery is enabled:
1. A new citizen type is available – slave. Slaves consumes only half the food a regular citizen consumes, it can be implemented either as a merged “great person” into the city or as actual worker which contributes to the city size (I personally prefer this one). Slave also cannot be unhappy. So if city size is 20, and there are 6 slaves, and the total happiness is -18, 6 slaves will work, and 2 citizens will work.
2. If the ratio of slaves to military units present is less than 2 to 1, there are more than 2 times more slaves, a city has a small chance of revolting and becoming a barbarian state, as this ratio increases, the chance for revolt also increases.
3. A slave master unit is available for production. It can capture defeated foes and trun them into laves by sending them to the nearest city.
4. Whenever slave master is present in the stack of units that either attack or defend, if the foe is defeated, he’s turned into slave.
5. Abolitionist (see my previous post) can free slaves
6. Special wonder – Worldwide Emancipation Act is available with democracy and emancipation civic can free slaves world-wide – in all states, and slavery civic becomes obsolete
7. When slaves are freed: half of them disappears (effective city size and power is reduced), the other half becomes regular citizens (consume normal food amounts) and are unhappy for 15 turns and refuse to work, also causing every 3rd normal citizen (which was a citizen before emancipation) to be unhappy as well, after that – they become regular citizens.
I would like to expand on special units a bit more:
- Great Revolutionary – should probably be implemented as a great person or as a special unit available upon completion of some wonder – can cause a revolt in any city except capital after being there for 5 turns, and not being caught (may be by spy units or some other units). After successful revolt, revolutionary is consumed.
- Great Diplomat – should implemented either as a great person, or a special unit available upon completion of some wonder. It has 2 actions: increase the other player’s regard towards you by 7 points for x turns or permanently by applying this action in the other player’s city; or if you are at war with the other player, then great diplomat can sign an unconditional peace treaty with the other player, after which he is consumed.
- Terrorist – available with globalization – decreases city’s population by 1-4 (depending in the skill), causes unhappiness.
- Infector – can cause the plague or other disease to spread in the enemy city, killing some population, and increasing the number of “unhealthy faces”.
A few more suggestions about other things:
- DISEASES should implemented in a way similar to technological leakage. If for example in your city there are many “unhealthy faces”, and your city has a trade route to some other city (your own or other player’s), then there’s a chance that the disease will spread there. AI should be aware of this fact, and if necessary close borders with you, or vice versa.
- How come Pacifism civic does not cause any increase in war weariness? I think for Pacifism war weariness should be increased by at least +30%.
- CARTELS should be implemented. This is to acknowledge the fact that you should be rewarded for controlling either certain number or certain percentage of resources. Like for instance if there are 7 iron deposits in the World, and you control 4 or 5 of them, you should have some sort of bonus either in diplomacy or in income.
- Globalization (which is a tech available in some mods) should either come with economy civic globalization or itself trigger a slight unhappiness in large cities with high level of owners culture. This is to account for unhappiness about this process that we see today from nationalists and “protectorists”.
- Great Revolutionary – should probably be implemented as a great person or as a special unit available upon completion of some wonder – can cause a revolt in any city except capital after being there for 5 turns, and not being caught (may be by spy units or some other units). After successful revolt, revolutionary is consumed.
- Great Diplomat – should implemented either as a great person, or a special unit available upon completion of some wonder. It has 2 actions: increase the other player’s regard towards you by 7 points for x turns or permanently by applying this action in the other player’s city; or if you are at war with the other player, then great diplomat can sign an unconditional peace treaty with the other player, after which he is consumed.
- Terrorist – available with globalization – decreases city’s population by 1-4 (depending in the skill), causes unhappiness.
- Infector – can cause the plague or other disease to spread in the enemy city, killing some population, and increasing the number of “unhealthy faces”.
A few more suggestions about other things:
- DISEASES should implemented in a way similar to technological leakage. If for example in your city there are many “unhealthy faces”, and your city has a trade route to some other city (your own or other player’s), then there’s a chance that the disease will spread there. AI should be aware of this fact, and if necessary close borders with you, or vice versa.
- How come Pacifism civic does not cause any increase in war weariness? I think for Pacifism war weariness should be increased by at least +30%.
- CARTELS should be implemented. This is to acknowledge the fact that you should be rewarded for controlling either certain number or certain percentage of resources. Like for instance if there are 7 iron deposits in the World, and you control 4 or 5 of them, you should have some sort of bonus either in diplomacy or in income.
- Globalization (which is a tech available in some mods) should either come with economy civic globalization or itself trigger a slight unhappiness in large cities with high level of owners culture. This is to account for unhappiness about this process that we see today from nationalists and “protectorists”.
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
I have to disagree with you on Terrorists. Think how many people a single population point represents 10,000 or more. Now the worst terrorist attacks in history kill only a few hundred to a few thousand. Wars kill many, MANY more people. However, what does terrorism succeed in doing? Terrorising people. So terrorism could perhaps hurt productivity of a city directly (by destroying hammers, gold or food) or indirectly by causing temporary unhappiness/unhealthiness. It could also damage military units-but thats about it IMHO.
Aussie_Lurker.
Aussie_Lurker.
