QSC-C2e - Hannabaline & the 300 Spartans - Emperor

This thread is the game report and progress thread for the Emperor play section of the Quick Start Challenge game playing a comparative game for progress of two different groups of players. One group is playing the exact same game at Regent while this group plays at Emperor under the same starting conditions.

If you have not read the game setup description posted in the Registration thread for QSC-C2 please do so before attempting to begin play.

QSC-C2 Registration and Game Setup Thread




The players in this group are:

Charis
Hotrod
Justus II
Borealis
Meldor
Arizona Steve
Swiftsure
Karasu
Flexo

Remember that you must download and install the "Spartan Hoplite" unit folder before you may load the starting game file.

Also remember that your unique game identifier is QSC-C2e



The anticipated schedule of turns should be:

3550 BC (turn 10)
3050 BC (turn 20)
2590 BC (turn 30)
------ First reports with timelines and save file uploads by Thursday February 13th
2190 BC (turn 40)
1790 BC (turn 50)
1525 BC (turn 60)
------ Second reports with timelines and save file uploads by Sunday February 16th
1275 BC (turn 70)
1025 BC (turn 80)
775 BC (turn 90)
------ Third reports with timelines and save file uploads by Wednesday February 19th
570 BC (turn 100)
370 BC (turn 110)
170 BC (turn 120)
------ Fourth reports with timelines and save file uploads by Sunday February 23rd



Here is the link to download your starting save game file at Emperor difficulty:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/hannabaline,_4000bc_emperor.sav

Good luck to all players and please PM me or email me at qotm@civfanatics.net if you have any difficulties or questions.

-- cracker

Turns 1-30

4000 BC (1) Although it means founding on a bonus grass tile, moving the worker reveals cattle and enough productive land to grow on. Getting a better start will help neoCarthage more than saving one bonus tile for later. Yay! Founding on the starting spot reveals Ivory in the future size 2 cultural radius. Research to 100% on Pottery, due in 13 turns; we'll need a Granary to help this city with only one food bonus grow. Carthage starts a warrior for exploration.

As this QSC is made to test for the GOTM, I look at the Space Race screen, as many players do, to see who my opponents are. The Aztecs, Iroquois, Greeks, Germans, Chinese, Americans, and Persians oppose us, providing a fairly even mix of civilization traits and UUs.

3950 BC (2) Worker starts mining bonus grass directly SE of Carthage.

3900 BC (3)

3850 BC (4)

3800 BC (5) Worker starts road in mined bonus grass tile.
3750 BC (6) Carthage builds a warrior, and starts another one, due in four turns. Warrior #1 starts heading in a vaguely western direction as the minimap shows us to the far east.

3700 BC (7) Worker moves across the river to the cattle. Irrigating this will help growth, which is more critical right now than saving a few gpt for research that will have to be spent on luxuries when Carthage grows.

3650 BC (8) A three-warrior American SoD approaches from the south. Abe is Annoyed, and lacks Alphabet. He has Bronze Working in addition to his base techs. I'll probably wait to trade and see if there's anyone else around.

(IT): American warrior SoD turns around, letting me know that I am playing a computer AI and not a human, who would use it to attack my poorly-defended city. Starting on emperor almost always requires a low-defense gambit of some kind in the very early game, unless you do a barracks-archer militaristic start ala Charis in QSC-c1.

3600 BC (9) Furs are revealed in the fog of war SE of Carthage.

3550 BC (10) Carthage builds warrior; starts worker. Having an extra worker early on will help city production and capitalize on the Industrious trait. This warrior starts heading NE away from America while the one warrior seeks to locate Abe.

***********save

(IT): We discover Pottery, and I start 40-turn research on Writing.

3500 BC (11) Argh. The computer gave me a clown as Carthage grows to size 2; instead, I up lux tax to 10% (rivers are wonderful), and reassign the worker to a productive tile.

3450 BC (12) A Jaguar warrior approaches Carthage from the east. Montezuma knows Warrior Code and Ceremonial Burial, but lacks Masonry, Alphabet, and Pottery! He obviously doesn't know Abe yet, but the American warrior will probably discover him next turn. We trade Masonry + Pottery + 12 gold + 1gpt for Warrior Code and Ceremonial Burial, neither of which Abe knows. The American workers start on the process of building a road and irrigation to the elephant grazing fields nearby.

Abe has two workers, 1 gold, and Bronze Working, which I trade him Alphabet + Ceremonial Burial for. He probably won't sell Alphabet to Monty for several turns yet, I hope, and if it's sold I don't lose much- getting two extra workers this early will give my civ a huge production boost. In PTW, this opportunity wouldn't happen- I'd only get one worker for this deal, or two for all my tech, forcing me to pay Abe Warrior Code as well. The foreign advisor grumbles about 'seed corn,' but fails to raise strong objections after being guaranteed good behavior in the next RBE epic.

3400 BC (13) Carthage builds a worker and starts a warrior. Worker #2 moves to the forest, which it will chop down once Carthage starts its granary.

3350 BC (14)

3300 BC (15)

3250 BC (16) I drop my keys on the keyboard accidentally while getting up to grab the phone and am forced to reload from autosave as my worker goes a fun direction.
Lux tax to 10% as Carthage is size two. Warrior in the SW reveals blue American borders.

3200 BC (17) Carthage builds warrior for MP and defense; starts a granary. A purple scout is revealed in the fog of war near Aztec cultural boundaries. The Iroquois lack Masonry and Alphabet, and have 10 gold¡K I made a good call in selling Ceremonial Burial to Abe rather than Warrior Code. Abe and Monty will know each other within 3 turns or so.

3150 BC (18) American workers complete road to Ivory and lux tax is eliminated in celebration. Warrior near American capital reveals incense in the hills nearby.

3100 BC (19) Worker harvests forest and starts mine as the forest hid a bonus grass. The other worker continues mining bonus grass, and American workers keep irrigating to the ivory.

3050 BC (20) Contact with Jerxes near American capital, via a spearman. He has 10 gold, no luxuries currently hooked up, and no extra cities. He lacks Alphabet and Ceremonial Burial. Monty has a barbarian worker on offer and I buy it for 16 gold and 1 gpt.

(IT): The foreign advisor brings tales of the demise of a faraway civilization, known as the Chinese.

***********save

3000 BC (21)

(IT): Lord McCauley completes his history of the Largest Nations of the World:
1. Germany
2. Iroquois
3. Greeks
4. Aztecs
5. Persians
6. Americans
7. Carthage

2950 BC (22) Diplo check reveals that the historian was right in his civ size estimate, as the civs we know all have another city except America. Foreign workers start moving to build a road to the next city site.

2900 BC (23)

2850 BC (24)

2800 BC (25) Furs revealed around Niagra Falls, the Iroquois' first city. We have three AI civs right next to us, hardly a promising start. Once we get a few cities, war seems the best option.

2750 BC (26) Carthage grows to size 4, and builds a granary. Production on a Spartan Hoplite started, and MM for shields. Lux tax to 10%.

2710 BC (27) Evidently the AI popped some huts, as Monty and Abe both have The Wheel and Mysticism. No one else has them, and X-man lacks Alphabet and Burial. Our warrior sees spices near New York, but will be asked to leave soon.

2670 BC (28)

2630 BC (29) A roaming barbarian appears to the north of Carthage.

2590 BC (30) Carthage builds a Spartan Hoplite, and starts a settler. The settler is due in 4, with growth in 6, but will be MMed to build when Carthage grows. The worker stack sees a barbarian camp, and runs away for now- that barb camp will be dispersed when the new city is founded. Lux tax dropped as Carthage likes the MP.

Saves:

3550 BC

3050 BC

2590 BC

In retrospect, with all the foreign workers, I didn't need the extra worker early on, but as I didn't know I'd get those buying opportunities, the decision was still good. Carthage is well set-up for growth, and the new city to come will be improved extremely quickly. After my first set of worker decisions, I stopped logging them, but the pattern was- within city radius first, then growth, then production, then start improving in direction of next city as settler time approaches.

A screenshot of 2590 BC will be in the next post to avoid horizontal text scrolling.

[Edit: Copy/pasting from Word brought up some funny characters in place of apostrophes. This is odd; I've never had this problem before.]

The neoCarthage 'empire' under Borealis at 2590 BC:

4000 BC (1): With Desert and Mountains around this looks like a tough starting spot. Decide to move the worker to the bonus grass before settling. I see a cattle and what looks to be coastline. Add in the flood plains then the start is not too too bad and I settle. Carthage is founded and there are ivory to the NW , start a warrior. Begin research on Pottery at 100%. Due in 13 turns.

3950 BC (2): Start mines.

3900 BC (3): Still mining. The citizen is working the bonus grass that I am mining.

3850 BC (4): More of the same.

3800 BC (5): mines complete start roads.

3750 BC (6): Warrior is complete start another. Send warrior to the West and see more ivory.

3700 BC (7): Worker completes the road and goes to start irrigating the cattle. It is not within the boundries yet but will be by the time the city needs it. The warrior is heading NW and sees more ivory and we can now see the coastline.

3650 BC (8): More exploring to the N.

3600 BC (9): It continues.

3550 BC (10): Warrior completed start settler. The warrior could be fortified for MP Duty. But may be used later to explore to the SouthWest.

Here is the first save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hotrod_QSC_C2e_BC3550.zip

3500 BC (11): Hmmm. Learn Pottery but I thought there was 2 more turns left. Just got contacted but I don't know who the civ is yet. Will start Writing and bee line for the GL. Dial up Abe and he has Bronze working but wants my Alphabet and 4 gold. NO deals Abe.

3450 BC (12): Contact Made with the Aztecs. They have Warrior code and CB, and lack Masonry, Alph, and pottery. Lets make a deal. Trade Monty, Alphabet, and Masonry for WC and CB and 10
gold. NOw this may be weed but I would rather take the gold from abe than have Monty get it so here is the deal, I get 2 worker, Bronze and 26 gold. Abe gets, Alphabet, WC and CB.

3400 BC (13): May new "indentured servants" work the flood plain and will road to get the ivory online. MM Carthage over the next few turns to balance food and shield to get the settler same
turn as growth.

3350 BC (14): More exploring. MM to get settler in 4 growth in 4.

3300 BC (15): Begin bringing the warrior south to see a bit close to home.

3250 BC (16): See jungle Due West of Carthage.

3200 BC (17): A settler is due next next turn. Roading to the ivory continues.

3150 BC (18): The settler grabs the warrior and heads north. Carthage starts warrior.

3100 BC (19): The settler/warrior pair continues north. The exploring warrior continues south.

3050 BC (20): The ivory is online, warrior/settler almost to city 2 spot. Buy Monty's worker for 34 gold.

Here is the second Save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hotrod_QSC_C2e_BC3050.zip

3000 BC (21): Spot furs to the South West, Settler has arrived at city number 2.

2950 BC (22): Aztecs found a city right near my first choice for city number 2, decide to move the settler again.

2900 BC (23): Carthage builds warrior starts settler. Found the town of Utica NE of Carthage. Start a barracks.

2850 BC (24): Some workers start mines around carthage, another is moving Norht toward Utica.

2800 BC (25): zzzzz

2750 BC (26): Spot some inland lake to the SW. MM of Carthage the next few turns to get the settler and growth the same.

2710 BC (27): Spot the American boarder to the direct south.

2670 BC (28): Iroquios approach from the East, they lack Alphabet and Masonry but have no gold to speak of. No Trades. Abe met someone, he now has the Wheel and Iron Working. So does Monty, did they trade or was it from someone else .

2630 BC (29): Begin lumberclearing by Utica. Settler is due next turn.

2590 BC (30): Carthage builds settler. Takes warrior and heads toward the furs. Carthage starts granary, with wood clearing already started want to use the shields for infrastructure.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hotrod_QSC_C2e_BC2590.zip


Couple of things: Carthage is a good settler producer even without the granary. Worker buys are easier in 1.29 vs. PTW. I have 3 slaves and 1 native worker. It turns out the 1 I bought from Monty was a barb. I also hope researching Writing pays off, I am 10 turns away and already behind the wheel and IW.

4000 BC
After much thought I decide to waste the first worker turn to see if we can get a better position. I have two choices, the hill due east and the hill due west. I opt to move away from the desert and on to the hill due east. This reveals that a city on top of the hill will have 6 BG tiles, one of which has a cow on it. Unfortunately, when the city expands, it will waste 3 coastal tiles. This wastage is deemed worthy of the move as it won't come into effect until after hospitals. We move the settler on top of the hill.

3950 BC
We found Carthage and start a warrior. The worker moves to irrigate the cow. We start science on warrior code at max, due in 13.

3900-3850 BC
Since the extra food will allow growth sooner, I irrigate first.

3800-3750 BC
We road the cow. The warrior completes and we start a second one.

3700 BC
The warrior heads for the mountains due west. The worker goes one square NW to start the first BG.

3650 BC
I start mining, making sure the citizen is working the same tile as the worker. The new growth shaves two turns off the warrior. W1 moves on top of the hill and spots Ivory to the west. Set taxes to 0.9.1 to avoid rioting.

3600 BC
Spot a Jag of Monties. We trade Alphabet for CB, WC and 10g. We start pottery due in 10.

3550 BC
W1 follows the mountain chain WNW.

Meldor 3550 BC

3500 BC
Warrior 2 completes and we start a third. W2 head due north on top of the hill. Worker begins road.

3450-3400 BC
More exploring. Taxes taken to 0.8.2 to handle third citizen.

3350 BC
Complete third warrior, start barracks as granary pre-build. Warrior MP allows taxes at 2.7.1 and still get pottery in 4. Find Zulu border Nw.

3300-3250 BC
More exploring. Meet the Iroquois. Trade Alphabet for BW and 7g. No deal on masonry though.
We get pottery and start on IW at 0.9.1.

3200-3100 BC
Complete work on second BG, start road to new city site. Spot furs in the north. Work forest to get granary in 4. Taxes moved to 0.8.2 Meet American Scout, trade CB for two workers. Two new workers move to work first flood plains.

3050 BC
I try to buy a Zulu worker but my 28g isn't enough!

Meldor 3050 BC

2900 BC
Granary built and settler started.

2750 BC
Tax to 0.7.3 for one turn.

2700 BC
Finish settler and start another.

2630 BC
We build Utica which brings Ivory online and it begins a warrior.

2590 BC
Second settler due in 1. It also seems as though the Aztecs have spices....hmmmmwho is first?

Meldor 2590 BC

Pre-Game Strategy: I didn’t want to go into this one with too many preconceived notions, I wanted to adapt to the situation. Knowing it was at Emperor, I knew I would have to expand quick, and especially after seeing the starting position, decided that I would make Carthage a settler factory, building a granary. I actually opened the game, looked at the starting position, and since there was no compelling reason to move off the original location, built Carthage to see more of the surrounding area and develop strategy. Once I saw the cattle, I knew I could make a good settler factory, and then see what develops from there.

First Set of 10 turns
4000 Carthage founded at initial location, production set to warrior to explore. I move my worker to the grass-bonus to the SE to start mining. Since we are industrious, I figured I would be able to get that tile AND the cattle developed by the time my culture and pop expanded on turn 11. I set research to pottery, since I would need a granary, which at 100% science said it would take 13 turns.
3950 Worker starts to mine the bonus.
3900 Nothing happens!
3850 Nothing happens!
3800 Mine is done, start on road.
3750 First Warrior completed, start on second. Warrior1 climbs hill to W, sees more ivory in the distance.
3700 W1 climbs mountain to NW, sees more ivory, more flood plains! Worker finishes road, moves SE to cattle.
3650 W1 moves N along hill, just sees plains. Worker starts irrigating cattle.
3600 W1 moves NW along mountain, more flood plains.
3550 Second warrior done, start on third. W1-N, sees gold in mountain, W2-S toward jungle.
The cattle is irrigated, I start on the road.
* End of first ten turns: I have a worker, 2 warriors, Carthage will grow next turn. Pottery is now 2 turns away. Per the F10 screen, the other civs are Aztecs, Iroquois, Greeks, Germans, China, America, and Persia. Not a real friendly bunch. My score is 50 points.

Save Game 3550bc
Here is my early map, showing exploration up to 3550.

4000bc move the worker one tile se onto second bonus grassland, if no better place to settle is found then we can mine the bg next turn. worker sees cattle so we move settler one tile s.

3950bc carthage founded and warrior started, bg begins to be mined rather than move onto cattle and irrigate. sci set to 100% and set at pottery.

3900bc-3750bc not alot

3700bc warrior completed and another ordered,warrior moves onto mountain and spots 3 american warriors. trade alphabet to abe for pottery and 10gp.start writing at min research

3650bc warrior moves back into carthage

3600bc lux set to 10%,sci to 10% and tax to 80%,warrior moves north from carthage scouting.

3550bc warrior built and fortifies for mp,granary started


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/SWIFTSURE-QSC-C2E-3550BC.SAV

3500bc warrior continues scouting. jag warrior whizz's past with no contact

3450bc-3400bc warrior continues scouting

3350bc contact with aztecs,trade alphabet/pottery and 48gp to aztecs for ceremonial burial and bronze working

3300bc scouting

3250 trade 3gpt and 4gp to aztecs for warrior code

3200bc-3100bc continued scouting.

3050bc iroquois contacted they are behind in techs

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/SWIFTSURE-QSC-C2E-3050BC.SAV

3000bc granary built and settler started.lux set to 20% as carthage at size 4

2950bc-2850bc scouting

2800bc settler built amd moves nw towards ivory.another settler ordered.

2750bc-2710bc warrior scouting

2670bc utica built connecting ivory to carthage. trade 3gpt and 18gp to america for mysticism

2630bc-

2590bc settler built and another ordered.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/SWIFTSURE-QSC-C2E-2590BC.SAV

Second Set of 10 turns
3500 A lot happened this turn! Carthage grows in population (2) and size (culture expands). I assign the 2nd laborer to the cattle, of course. Between turns, an American warrior came into view to the S. This must have triggered the reduction in the cost of Pottery, because it is completed a turn early. Lincoln is cautious, has 1 gold and Bronze Working. After haggling, he gives me Bronze Working and the 1 gold for Alphabet. Checking the score, he has 59 points to my 57. I set my research on Mathmatics (AI is slow to research this, I should be able to sell/trade it for something) and reduce research to 10% (would have been 40 turns regardless). I also raise luxuries to 10%, so my tax rate is now 8.1.1 to account for the second citizen. W1-W, W2 moves SW along a hill, sees what could be a lake or coast.
3450 An Aztec Jaguar Warrior moved into view between turns, NE of Carthage. I explore before contacting him, W1-W onto mountain, sees American scout, some coast? W2-SW, sees a definite 1-tile lake. Now I contact Montezuma, he is Polite?!?, has no gold but does have Warrior Code and Ceremonial Burial, which he trades me for Masonry and Alphabet. I then check with Lincoln to see if he has anything to offer, and to my surprise, has 2 workers! I trade WarCode and CerBurial for the two workers, and 25gold. The cattle is roaded, so my worker moves NE to the next grass-bonus. I send one of my new slaves to join him, and the other moves NE to the flood plain.
3400 Carthage completes warrior3, starts on granary. W1-N in mountains, W2-SW and sees fur, W3-N. Worker1 and Slave1 together start to mine the bonus grass, Slave2 starts road through the flood plain.
3350 W1-N, W2-S, sees more mountains, W3-N to mountain, sees river continuing north, plains and grasslands.
3300 W1-N sees Aztec border, W2-S, W3-N. Mine is done on bonus, start road with both Work1 and Slave1, done same turn (I love industrious!).
3250 W1-NE, sees Iroquois scout, Aztec worker in some spices. (No wonder I haven’t found any huts!). S2-S on mountain, see American border, Incense. W3-N, see small lake. I contact Hiawatha, who is cautious, has 10 gold but no techs. I give him Masonry for 10g, he is now polite. Quick check of scores: Amer. 79, Iroq. 77, Aztec 77, Carthage 77. Work/Slave combo moves N to next Grass-Bonus, Slave2 finishes road, moves to ivory. Carthage’s population grew to 3, so I up luxuries to 20% (7.1.2), still making +6 gpt.
3200 W1-N, W2-Se, W3-NE, nothing new to report. W/S starts mining, S2 starts road on Ivory.
3150 A Persian spearman appears in the SE (looked like an American, not sure how it came from that direction). Xerxes is Annoyed, has 3 gold but no techs. I give him Ceremonial Burial for the 3g, he is still annoyed. Looking at scores, he is way behind (74 vs. 83-81 for others). W1-W, W2-W, sees Washington, W3-E, sees furs in north, more coast.
3100 W1-NW, W2-W more coast, W3-NW. Bonus is mined, W1/S1 builds road.
3050 W1-NW-mountain, more furs, W2-NW, W3-NW. W/S combo moves W, S2 finished road, connecting Ivory, moves SE to irrigate flood plain. I adjust luxuries back down to 10%. Time to check out diplomacy again, America is Cautious, has 41g, 86 pts. Aztecs are polite, 0g, 84 points, but have a worker to sell! I buy it for 2gpt, and send it NE to FP to help S2 with irrigation. Iroqoius are cautious, 0g, 84 pts. Persia is annoyed, 0g, 76 pts.
** End of second ten turns: I now have a worker plus 3 slaves (the one from the Aztecs is listed as a barbarian?), and 3 warriors. Carthage is at population 3, and will hit 4 next turn. The granary will be done in 4 turns (3 with the growth). Mathematics is 31 turns away, but I have all first tier techs but wheel. I have 108g +5gpt, and my score is 86 (tied with America).


Save Game 3050bc
Here is the Realm of Carthage, as of 3050.

3000 I see another Iroq. scout to the W, Aztec JW to NW. They are crawling all over, I haven’t seen a hut yet, they must have gotten them all. W1-W, W2-NW, W2-W, nothing interesting. W1/S1 builds a road in the desert tile, to make it quicker for settlers to move N or NE. Population is now 4, so I up luxuries to 20% again. Herodotus publishes his list of The Most Advanced Civilizations: China, America, Aztec, Carthage, Germany, Persians, Iroquois, Greeks. I check, and America and Aztec have no new tech, so we must all be tied with or right behind China.
2950 W1-W sees Iroquois border. W2-W more coast, W3-W. W1/S1 moves W,NW,N along road to second ivory. S2/S3 finishes irrigating the Flood Plain, moves NW and starts to irrigate the first ivory.
2900 Carthage completes the Granary, starts on a settler, which will take 4 turns. W1-W, W2-N, W3-E nothing interesting. W1/S1 build road on ivory, S2/S3 starts road through forest. Aztec builds Teotihuacan on the small lake to the NW of Carthage.
2850 W1-N sees Iroquois founded Niagra Falls, W2-N, W3-E. W1/S1 moves NE. S2/S3 moves W to forest.
2750 W1-N, more coast, W2-N, W3-SE. W1/S1 moves E on hill. Carthage hits population 5, up luxuries to 30%.
2710 Carthage produces Settler #1, starts on a warrior to get production and population back in synch. Settler moves NW,NW,N along the road. With Carthage now at pop.3, I slide luxuries back down to 10%. W1-NE, W2-NE, W3-E, nothing special. W1/S1 moves NE to plains.
2670 W1-E, W2-S, W3-SE, following hills/mountains on coast. Settler moves NE, NE to new site. S1/S1 starts to irrigate plains for the new city, S2/S3 completes road in the forest, moves NW to flood plains. Luxuries back up to 20% as Carthage grows back to 4, only making 3gpt since settler is over free unit limit.
2630 Carthage completes warrior, starts settler again, done in 5 turns (will be 4 with growth). Settler founds Utica, 3 N of Carthage, which starts on a warrior. W1-E, W2-W, W3-SE, W4- NE,E,E using road. S2/S3 start irrigating flood plains.
2590 W1-NE, W2-NW, W3-SE along mountains, S2-N on hill, sees open grassland. W1/S1 finished the irrigation, builds road on plain. Cartahge grew to pop.5, so I increase luxuries to 30%, but now with Utica contributing I am at +6gpt. A quick check of diplomacy reveals that most of the other civs have the Wheel. Since I didn’t give the Iroquois Alphabet earlier, I go there first, and they sell me The Wheel for Alpha and 1gpt. I see horses to the SW, next to my planned city #2, and to the NE.
*** End of third ten turns: I have a worker plus 3 slaves, and 4 warriors. Carthage is at population 5, will finish a settler in 3 turns, and is now on a sustaining cycle of 1 settler every four turns, with no interruptions. Utica will grow in 9 turns, finish another warrior in 4. I have all first level techs, and Mathematics is 21 turns away. I have 151 gold, +5gpt Looking at the other civs, the Aztecs now have the lead with 111 pts, 14g, 2 cities, still polite. Iroquois are cautious, 0g, 2 cities, and 108 points. America is also cautious, 41g, 2 cities, 107 pts. Persia is annoyed, has 6g and 2 cities, and 101 pts. The delay in getting my second city may have set me back slightly in score, I am also at 101 pts, but by the power chart it has evened up. No one has generated any extra culture yet. I am listed as #1 in population, GNP, and production.


Save Game 2590BC

My updated map, as of 2590BC


Probably the biggest surprise was the workers, I rarely get one early, much less three. I actually almost felt guilty buying both from America, in fact I stopped to double check the list of exploits for GOTM, I thought I had read something about that before, but I think that was just the rules for a specific SG or something. 3 extra captive workers was a big swing, especially since at the same time I set America back by the same amount, but I guess that it is no more unbalancing than a free settler from a hut. That was my second surprise, even with 3 warriors out exploring I never saw a single hut, but surrounded by two expansionist civs (and the Aztecs, the jags move like scouts), I guess I have to accept that. They were everywhere. It even threw off some of my assumptions, seeing the Aztecs and Americans coming from the NE and SE respectively, I thought there might be more land that way than there really was. I was glad to get the settler factory set up. The extra workers might have saved me a turn on the granary, but they have been a big help in setting up my future city sites. I’ve realized now though that it is somewhat wasteful to pair them up like they are, I am used to doing it with captured workers, but since I am industrious, they are as fast as a normal worker, and could accomplish more in the long run separately. Still not sure what direction this game will take, I intend to stay peaceful and fill in as much territory as I can for now, the Spartan Hoplite will make a great defender but kind of expensive for the offensive.

EDIT: Well, after reading some of the other posts, it looks like I was not alone in getting the workers, just something I am not used to getting that early, especially 2 at a time. (I typed up my comments before looking at anyone else's posts, so I wouldn't bias myself). Should be interesting!!!

Just lurking by and saw JustusII comment about buying workers.

Cracker, how will the cost of workers effect the PTW vs 1.29 games? Is there a way to adjust how much value the AI gives a worker?

Wow, I've played alot of SP Emperor games and I can't remember ever being able to research the first tech in only 13 turns. Start didn't look all that good but I guess looks are deceiving. Have fun.

In the interests of isolating my game from any external influences, I played out to turn 95 before submitting this and looking at the thread. I'm at work right now, and don't have time to put up any screenshots - I'll try to do so in the future...

(1) 4000BC
I note that we have started on a bonus grassland tile. Our worker is set to work mining it.
I move the settler across the river to settle on the forest square next turn.

(2) 3950BC
Carthage is founded. A warrior is started. I make sure that the citizen is working the bonus grassland that is being mined by our worker.
I hit F6 to begin research immediately on pottery - due in 13 turns @ 100%.

(3) 3900BC
(4) 3850BC
Worker completes mine, starts road.

(5) 3800BC
Carthage competes warrior, starts another.

(6) 3750BC
Worker completes road, moves to adjacent bonus grassland tile.
Warrior is sent out to hike the local mountains.

(7) 3700BC
Worker begins to mine the other bonus grassland.

(8) 3650BC
We make contact with a trio of American warriors. Their leader is annoyed with us, and has Pottery. We have Alphabet. No trade is made, we will discover Pottery ourselves in 4 turns, and Alphabet is worth way more.
Furs are sighted within easy reach of our capital. A high priority site.

(9) 3600BC
Carthage trains a second warrior, a third is ordered.

(10) 3550BC
The second warrior is fortified in Carthage - he will quell any riots when the city grows to size 2 in 2 turns.
Our worker has mined the second bonus grassland, he starts a road.

Arizona_Steve - 3550BC

(11) 3500BC
I drop science to 50%, and net a couple of gold in addition to Pottery.
Pottery comes in, I start The Wheel @ 100% - due in 20 turns.
Carthage borders expand, allowing the possibility of hooking up the ivory.

(12) 3450BC
I decide to leave the cow alone for the time being and irrigate the flood plain en route to hooking up the ivory.
Carthage grows to 2, I make sure both mined grasslands are in use.
Carthage completes a warrior, starts settler.

(13) 3400BC
I contact an Aztec Jaguar Warrior that is passing by. Montezuma is polite, and has Warrior Code and Ceremonial Burial. We have Alphabet and Pottery available to trade. A worker is also available for sale.
I trade Alphabet in exchange for Ceremonial Burial and a Worker (I'm assuming there are no special rules about buying workers from another civ - am I exploiting the system here?).
I then call up Lincoln and trade Alphabet in exchange for Bronze Working + 5 gold (if I don't do this now, you can be sure that Montezuma will if they've met the Americans).
I send our newly acquired worker to irrigate the cow.

(14) 3350BC
(15) 3300BC
Our native worker irrigates the floodplains and starts a road.

(16) 3250BC
(17) 3200BC
Our native worker completes the road on the floodplains and moves onto the ivory.
I switch a citizen from a mined bonus grassland to the irrigated floodplain to pop the settler exactly when Carthage reaches size 3.

(18) 3150BC
(19) 3100BC
Our slave irrigates the cow and starts a road.

(20) 3050BC
Our ivory is online, and this will allow me to oscillate Carthage between sizes 2 and 4 to pop out more settlers.
I send the native worker back to begin roading towards the furs.

Arizona_Steve - 3050BC

Catharge completes it's settler and begins a warrior.

(21) 3000BC
I take the settler and the defending warrior in Carthage and move towards the furs. A new warrior is due in 4 turns.
We contact a Persian spearman, and talk to X-man. X-man is annoyed of course. I trade Alphabet to him in exchange for Warrior code and 10 gold.

(22) 2950BC
The Aztecs plop down a city almost on top of my exploring warrior, then have the nerve to tell me to get out. For now, I comply.

(23) 2900BC
I've improved the land around the capital as much as I want to for now, so both workers are gainfully employed building a road network to send future settlers down.
We contact a cautious Hiawatha of the Iroquois. We are ahead of them by Alphabet.

(24) 2850BC
(25) 2800BC
Carthage regains it's warrior defender, and starts a granary.
Ultica is founded next to the furs. It starts a barracks.

(26) 2750BC
(27) 2710BC
I drop science to 10% and get The Wheel this turn + 5 gold. Iron working started, science reduced to 10%, as with 4 civilizations known, it is cheaper to buy than to research.

(28) 2670BC
We have a horse in range of Ultica after it's borders expand.

(29) 2630BC
(30) 2590BC
America and the Aztecs both have Mysticism. Persia is equal to us in tech and the Iroquois are behind by The Wheel and Alphabet. I keep a look-out for brokering opportunities.

Arizona_Steve - 2590BC

WARNING: This is my first Succession Game, and all my past attempts at keeping detailed timelines for the QSC resulted in incredibly poor play until 1000 BC...

This is my timeline for the first 30 turns (a bit rushed, as I was supposed to pay attention to the progress meeting... )



4000 BC
To found or not to found? I have desert neearby and I am sitting on a grassland + shield... I think I will wast a turn of the worker to give a look at the landscape from that hill to the E: Worker 1E.

Ok. A cow, and the sea. I think I can spend 1 turn going 1S with the Settler and found Carthage (I guess) on the second turn. Reaching the coast and founding on the third seems too much... Settler 1S



3950 BC
Founded Carthage, build Warrior (have to, otherwise I would have nothing to move while the Worker is working... )
W goes 1S to road the cow.
Seeing the starting position, I think the second city will go in the forest 1E3NE of Carthage. The worker will road and irrigate the cow, Carthage will become a settler factory, and the new city will build some military to start with.

Ah, research. I would go for Monarchy at 20% science, but given the starting techs I think I'll start with Writing (good for trading) and try to follow the path to Monarchy as soon as I have got some first/second level techs through trading. This leaves me with the possibility to go for Republic if I change my mind within 40 turns...
Thinking about it, it is good that the first checkpoint is only after 30 turns, so I can check what the better players are doing in this area...



3800 BC
The Worker finished his road. Starts irrigating the Cow. Oops! I moved it, will have to reload. Irrigating will take two turns, same as when I finish the Warrior.



3700 BC
Warrior and Irrigation are ready.
I have now a fast-growing city. I may not even need a Granary, shields may not allow settlers to be produced fast enough. I need a productive city very soon.

Warrior goes 1W, on top of the mountain.

Ouch! THREE 3/3 American Warriors! I may need to switch production to another warrior pretty soon. Lincoln is contacted: he only has Pottery, and I am not going to trade him Alphabet for Pottery + 10 gold. Let's wait for him to have something more to offer...

The worker goes to the tile 1N of Carthage to build a road and a mine there. The road will eventually be used to connect the Ivory which I have just seen (and would have gotten had I founded Carthage in the starting position).



3650 BC
My warrior is on top of the mountain. Should Abe decide to attack me, I had better stay here. But I am leaving Carthage undefended, and he might climb the hill to go for the big prize. However, if I fortify inside Carthage, he might be able to attack it from the mountain, and 3 against 1 would give me very slim chances to survive. I will stay here and wish he is not going to hit me... (He was Annoyed when we first met and I didn't trade with him, oh dear...). Carthage will grow in 7 turns and the Settler will be available at the same time. That, at least, sounds good!

Which means I have made a mistake with the Worker, in that I should have completed the road to the jungle first (too lazy to calculate when the Settler would come out!). I'll bring the guy back and start working on the road to the second city location: the worker looses two turns, but I will not lose one on founding the city.

Moved N instead of S, reloaded -Poor me, keeping the most detailed timeline possible is really hard on the part of my brain that controls the game...



3600 BC
Riots! Just to confirm what I am saying above, I had also forgot to set the luxury slider to 10%... Ok, I'll lose this turn on the settler and try to be more concentrated: come on, I know I can do it .

The good news is that the American troops are going back south (well, this could have been my shortest game ever!). I venture my Warrior 1N to see better the Ivory zone. It does not look too promising...
The worker is gone where he has to be (1E1NE off Rome... er, I meant Carthage... too much GOTM...).



3550 BC
One American warrior pops up just south of my borders. Need to hurry home... And to start building some troops myself...

Worker builds road. My riot-prone citizens are back in shape.



3500 BC
The warrior is in his capital city. The american is trying to sneak by. I am really starting to dislike these cyan guys...

3450 BC
Borders expand.
Warrior fortified on the Cow; worker moved 1NE to build road



3400 BC
Worker starts road. American, as foreseeable, finding himself within my borders and within sight of an undefended city, makes a dash towards Carthage. I fortify there.



3350 BC
Playing with fire... The American passes by.



3300 BC
Road complete, building a mine for my second city.



3250 BC
Settler is complete. What next? With all these Americans, I really need another warrior. I'll use the forest to get one more shield and save one turn, returning to the cow for another settler in four turns.



3150 BC
An Aztec Elite Jaguar... This place is quite crowded!
Traded Alphabet + 37 gold for Bronze Working and Warrior Code.
Now I accept Pottery + 10 from Abe for Alphabet, but Montezuma is still asking too much for Ceremonial Burial. We'll trade again later on...

The mine is done; I will go building a road to the Ivory now.
I am also thinking of pop-rushing a barracks in Carthage...

Utica founded. Starts warrior.



3100 BC
Worker is now 1N of Carthage. Will build road.
Warrior ready in Carthage. Settler next. It would already be possible to build Spartan Hoplites, but I don't want a Golden Age NOW.



3050 BC
An american Spearman approaching from the south. I'll go meet him with Warrior#2: 1S

3000 BC
An Iroquois Explorer coming from the North... Traded him Alphabet for Ceremonial Burial + 10 gold. It's really crowded, and I am starting to think that a "Spartan Hoplite rush" might well be appropriate here.

Warrior #1 goes towards Utica (there may be room for expansion there; Warrior #2 goes back to Carthage. If possible, I would like to explore north. If I find a good food-producing spot, I'll be pop-rushing two barracks and military units.


2950 BC
The situation seems relatively calm. I can risk another settler, and try to go for the Flood Plain and/or Ivory to the North.

Warrior#1 is on the hill N of Utica; Warrior # won't move too far from Carthage.



2900 BC
Utica builds warrior. Starts barracks.
The Iro explorer moves around.

Warrior #3 goes to Carthage, Warrior #1 goes North, warrior #2 goes SW; worker builds road.



2850 BC
Warrior #3 fortifies in Carthage.
Warrior #2 goes SW (mountain)
Warrior #1 goes N (hill)



2800 BC
The worker wastes a turn going 1N on the mountain (he's industrious, what the hell, I can use it for more things!). The map is clear: we are cornered and surrounded by other civs. I see green borders to the North (Aztecs, I think). If I want to have a chance, I have to expand immediately towards them, grabbing at least the river area and the Ivory. As soon as I have four - five cities there, I will start building military as fast as I can and attack everyone around me!

So, Carthage on Settlers, all other cities on barracks + military.

Warrior #2 goes 1S -I want to see where the Americans are.
Warrior #1 goes 1N, towards the Aztecs.




2750 BC
Warrior #1 goes 1NW (hill)
Warrior #2 goes 1S
worker will road and irrigate the flood plains




2710 BC
Warrior #1 1SW (hill) I want to keep him around there to protect a city next to the furs.

Warrior #2 1S (mountain). Glimpse of the American borders. They seem to have a nice location for us; I am thinking of building two forces and attack both N and S. I might want to keep the Aztecs' city (or cities) I conquer, but raze the Americans'.

Had to micromanage Carthage a bit to make the Settler come out in exactly three turns (when city grows to size 3 again).




2670 BC
Both warriors 1E. Warrior #2 will make a round trip to Carthage. Warrior #3 will go to Utica to defend it from a barbarian.



2630 BC
Warrior #3 fortified in Utica.
Warrior #2 1E, sees some coast. This map looks more planned than random-generated, I must say...

Warrior #1 follows Aztecs' border

Worker roads southernmost elephant. Will later build road towards the fur.




2590 BC
Settler done. Another one in queue. This one will go in the forest 1NE of the flood plains.

Warrior #1 1NE, warrior #2 1NE. Worker builds road.
Warrior #3 survives the barbarian and gets promoted.

I am contacted by the Persians, with whom I trade the wheel for 71 gold (no point in waiting for next turn as they already have all my technologies). But, where is he?



Ops! I played one turn too many
In 2550 BC I... ehm... "will" hurry barracks in Utica (7 turns left otherwise). Warrior #1 1SW, Warrior #2 1N, Warrior #3 is sent back to Carthage.

Histograph says:

neoCarthage 118
Aztecs 116
America 112
Iroquois 111
Persia 103


Well, in spite of my display of clumsiness in this game, I think I never managed to get top score at Emperor after so short a time...

With about 19mins left on the last day, I manage to finish the first 30 turns (actually, to about 60) and am ready to upload

I'll have more about my strategy, where I'm headed and why, in a later post so as not to cloud any judgements. Or it might be entertaining to try to guess, who knows So for now, just the timeline:

[1] -4000: Starting positon- Looks fair, not super. It's got flood plains, 2 desert, hills,
mountains, but it's on BG. If I move anywhere it will be S or SW, making the BG
next door a good first worker spot. I move him there first, maybe he'll see something.
He does - cattle and another BG. Good enough to avoid delaying settlement. Carthage founded.
On doing so we see an ivory the other direction, in range - good. Warrior. I want to
go for a second tier tech and trade for two first tiers. Writing is due in 40.
[2] -3950: Mine the BG. mms forest for one turn to get warrior out one early.
[5] -3800: Road the BG. Warrior rdy, heads due N to scout.
[6] -3750: More ivory visible, good for trading.
[7] -3700: Worker moves to cattle, sees we're near coast.
[8] -3650: Irrigate cow. Worker takes a small NE detour for the hill.
[9] -3600: A jaggie comes wizzing by from the East. Normally a pain in the rear, our
merc are a perfect answer to the green menace. Masonry and Alphabet for WC, Pottery,
Burial. Carthage swaps to granary.
[10] -3550: Furs seen to NE. Road the cattle. *SAVE* (My autosave actually, forgot)

[11] -3500: From the south comes an American warrior. Alphabet for Bronze Working and 1g.
[12] -3450: Two workers from Abe? Burial, Warrior code and 6g get them. They'll head
for the ivory via the flood plain. Carthage now size 2, needs 10% lux until then.
Our native worker moves NE for the other BG.
[13] -3400: Now Aztecs have a worker! He's ours for 34g. (I struggle to remind myself this
is allowed in this game, it's quite a blow to the AI). Slave heads NW too, where the
others start a road. Native worker starts mining.
[14] -3350: We meet an Iro scout. They are a backward people. I'll not help them in this
game, with domination goal. (Space race they would get a helping hand)
Road done, two move to ivory.
[15] -3300: A bit of shuffling with our scout as the jaggies keep landing on a mtn
I want to climb.
[16] -3250: Ivory road complete, lux drops, we move to irrigate the flood plains.
[17] -3200: Warrior scout starts heading NW. Size 3, back at 10% lux.
[18] -3150: Two slaves move to irrigate ivory plains, another moves past them onto the
ivory currently outside our borders to the N (where we'll likely send a settler soon)
Native workers heads for yet another BG tile. mms for granary due in 2.
[19] -3100: Not much.
[20] -3050: Granary done, start a settler. Aztecs sell another worker for 34g! *SAVE*
I just noticed, two of the purchases workers are *barbarian* workers. I read about
that, but didn't think the AI would capture any

[21] -3000: Wealthiest nations: Aztecs, Chinese, Americans, us, Germans, Greeks, Iro, Persia.
[22] -2950: Aztecs have settled not far from us. Hrm... Actually, it's in a great spot to
capture, right on the lake.
[23] -2900: Abe has Mysticism.
[24] -2850: First settler done, finally. We start Barracks. A Persian spear shows up nearby,
and they're somewhat backward, and broke. If I were him, I would step up my capital
and demand tribute. Let's see what he does... Hrmm... no, I'll make a warrior now,
useful for MP if nothing else.
[25] -2800: The spear moves away, I swap back to rax
[26] -2750: Utica founded, 3 squares due north of capital, on a river. It starts a temple,
to expand to get another ivory, to pressure the Aztecs, and to get SOME culture for us.
[27] -2710: Irrigation next to utica.
[28] -2670: Two more Aztec workers for sale, bought for 3gpt+4g. They're pure Aztecs.
[29] -2630: Roadwork
[30] -2590: We see our first barbarian. Aztecs have Iron Working along with Mysticism.
Abe also has both. We want a third civ to get one, to be able to broker.

Well that was a quick 30. I don't feel like that was a strong start at all. I just
have two cities, although Carthage is size 5 and about to finish a rax, it's very
well improved, we're in the middle of the pack with the AI, and things look ok.

Save files 10-20-30 zipped

Charis

(PS The upload is one zip file, as I didn't see the point of spamming the upload folder
with three individually. The zip has 3 files all properly named Charis_QSC_C2e_bcyyyy.sav
However, if this is improper, let me know. I noticed half used .sav and half .zip here)

EDIT - Here are the individual save files
3550BC - Turn 10
3050BC - Turn 20
2590BC - Turn 30

PPS... Post #999 here Number 1000 is a Guide to 5CC just now posted on the Strategy Articles forum:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44458

Charis,
I think my way of uploading the saves is a lot more improper than yours.

I actually did try to attach the single file -but it was too large. Since I have never uploaded anything before and I was in a real hurry yesterday, I opted for the "spamming" approach.

I promise I won't do that again...

My apologize for missing the deadline, forgot to check my pm's there for a couple of days. Will play like mad tonight and submit tomorrow. Have resisted reading your lines so far. I'll be back!

@ Karasu - you should be using the easy upload facility and linking your file to your message via the http:// button above the reply box (using the post reply button - not the text box that appears under all the messages).

The easy upload has a maximum size of 3MB - the attachment facility only allows 100KB and it's use is discouraged as it has brought down the CivFanatics forums a number of times in the past.

I should've payed more attention but I am wondering: Do the barb workers work at half speed? I didn't notice a slow down. On second thought is only because we are industrious that I didn't see the slaves effect?

Hotrod