Venice discussion

Is there a map type that's typically considered standard or default? So many games I see are played on pangea, which doesn't seem terribly fair on any of the already existing naval civ's or indeed, Indonesia, Portugal and Venice. What's the overall fairest map? Continents? Continents +?
 
Is there a map type that's typically considered standard or default? So many games I see are played on pangea, which doesn't seem terribly fair on any of the already existing naval civ's or indeed, Indonesia, Portugal and Venice. What's the overall fairest map? Continents? Continents +?

I like using small continents, because you gate a few large islands for up to 4 civs and other smaller islands and many miniature atolls for maybe one city.
 
A few issues I've thought of

The first has been mentioned:


Also, it seems as though Venice cannot win domination; what happens when you conquer a capital? You can't raze capitals, and Venice can't puppet or annex cities. Taking over capitals for domination: impossible

Wrong. Venice can't annex cities, but it can puppet them.
 
A few issues I've thought of

The first has been mentioned:


Also, it seems as though Venice cannot win domination; what happens when you conquer a capital? You can't raze capitals, and Venice can't puppet or annex cities. Taking over capitals for domination: impossible

It does not say this. There is nothing so far to suggest that Venice can't capture cities, it only says that it can't annex cities. Based on what it says I'd guess that they are more than capable of capturing cities and puppeting them.
 
That makes sense, I don't guess I really ever understood the concept of puppeting. I always just take the happiness hit until they come out of resistance and get the courthouse built. I just want to decide what is built from the get-go. I'll have to read up on puppeting.
Puppeting makes it easier to get national wonders and social policies. It also cuts down on micromanaging if you conquer a lot. And you will probably call me a fool for this, but sometimes the latter is an even more important reason for me than the former.
 
I'm glad Venice is now finally confirmed, even though the information was actually Eyes Only. i just hope 2k turns a blind eye on the "whistleblower" and that he doesn't have to face legal consequences.

Also, it seems as though Venice cannot win domination; what happens when you conquer a capital? You can't raze capitals, and Venice can't puppet or annex cities. Taking over capitals for domination: impossible

Venice can puppet the regular way, including capitals.
 
Also, it seems as though Venice cannot win domination; what happens when you conquer a capital? You can't raze capitals, and Venice can't puppet or annex cities. Taking over capitals for domination: impossible.

The description says 'Cannot gain settlers nor annex cities. .... May purchase in puppeted cities.'

So you can puppet both cities and city states.
 
Sure they could. I just don't know if they'll do it ;)

I know. I'm saying they should do it. Odds are they won't see my post, but I'll probably be mentioning it enough times that they'll hopefully catch it before release.
 
Venice unplayable in mp?

Its an even more restrictive civ than India :sad:. I can already imagine the groans already when someone rolls Venice randomly in multiplayer in NQ
I'd believe that. Every opponent just sacks your caravans and suffocates your borders. You control only a handful of luxuries and one strategic resource, you may not have a mountain you may not have a river. Your UU power is in the sea, which becomes political power only a bit later. A player spotting you early can just deny you the ability to play, and they don't even have to declare the war.

Pro civ like India.
These guys' only hope is that the inability to settle cities will help other players see you as not a threat, having no need to remove you from the game. You can't take their good city spots, you have no war bonuses, but you do have shiny gifts. Your one city only represents one city's worth of beakers. But I don't think even that will change the way people generally play MP.

Internet cookie to first player to make it to medieval era as Venice in a mp game played for victory after week 1.

@Harald B: It is possible in G&K to gain the :c5capital: in a puppeted city if it is all you have. It may very well be the outcome that the Venice player is reduced to puppeteer status.
Good luck winning :crazyeye:
 
I would be delighted to play Venice in NQ.

They cant found cities but they can conquer other civs and cs or buy cs from witch they gain gold, science, culture, faith and probably turism. So they only lack production insted of witch they gain double the amount of trade routs and the ability to buy things in puppets. The puppets themselves produce gold on deufault basicly serving as production. So you can go wide just a different way. You can even go wider then most civs since when you get more than 15 cities you usualy puppet them anyway so they end up doing nothing production wise.

You dont need GM to get cities, conquer them maybe ???

GM doesnt break diplomacy since you probably pupet them as if you conquered them normaly as oposed to Austrias UA. Dont like it liberate them !

You dont need to be on coast it is just favorable. Trade routs work on the land too ! You can buy your UU in other cities that are coastal.

If you cant defend your capital you should probably switch to a lower dificulty !

You dont like the settler restriction yet you want something out of the box, like a +2 production from a building ?

You can get MoV from CS, ok so patronage got a little better so what maybe they ll just make it so you cant.

You claim you cant win a domination victory with a civ that has double the gold of anyone and can insta produce units near the front ?

You claim you cant win diplomatic victory with a civ that can buy the alliance of all the cs on the map if it wishes so ?

If Puppets can have great works you have a supper city + regular cities (tourism wise) and probably an extra policy tree filled out.

And for the science victory well get more puppets.


Sometimes posts like this get me on the bad side...
 
Really? In >2000 hours of gameplay I could probably count the number of times I annexed on my fingers and toes. Annexing is a slightly better option since G&K (because of the yield penalty) but still a very rare choice for me (because SPs and national wonders are more worthwhile).

true. Besides with all this cash stream wouldn't be easier just to buy CS influence, and make them allies? MoV can be helpfull to get early acess to resourcess. Specially when your starting area will be useless. BTW... it is said that the Celts depends on starting area... How about Venice? :lol:
 
I suppose if you had enough gold and puppets after losing Venice, you could sue for peace and try to purchase a new army to retake your capital. Seems pretty hopeless, though.
 
So I guess Venice will be able to install great works in puppets? Or maybe this was an ability everybody already had and I didn't know it?
 
So I guess Venice will be able to install great works in puppets? Or maybe this was an ability everybody already had and I didn't know it?

I dont know. I think it probably will, but if it cant you still can wonder spam having 4-5 extra trade routs giving you 4-9 production/food each.
 
Victory Condition

It'll be hard to win a diplomatic victory after you've removed most of the city-states from the game.

If you will remove city-states... You can use MoV to build Customs houses, and trade missions. With all this money, sea exploration, World Congress, you can easly go for diplomatic victory.
 
I guess one had better hope that you build your city somewhere with a 9 oil spot on it or you're done for in the modern era. You can still try to puppet a CS that does, but still, that's a pain and may not be available if another civ already takes it over by the time you can get a MoV there. And will there be a diplomatic penalty for puppeting city states?
 
Yeah, I just realized that Venice might have a hard time using their extra trade routes if everyone is angry with them for "killing city states under our protection!". Mass denouncements don't generally lead to lucrative trade deals. On the other hand, nobody seems to mass-denounce Austria for effectively destroying city states, so Venice is probably another exception.
 
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