*Spoiler* Qsc18r2 - Barbarian Insanity Game progress

A Space Oddity, I am going to shorten your name to Space from now on if that's OK. BTW if you are going for the horses near Rome you'd better put a shift on otherwise you might find a leaning tower there! I wouldn't worry too much about tech rate. You don't want to reach the next era b4 you're completely ready IMO.

Hi Gazza. Again, nice writeup. Your military is far bigger than mine. Anyone could walk into any of my towns.

@mad-bax (or should I say Mad from now on? Just kidding, I'll answer to Space): the first time around I was beaten to the horses, but not this time! I'm not worried, just curious how the tech settings of the human player affects the actions of the AI.

Space: usually its the las half of my name that people use. It was my nickname at school. I had a tortured childhood

Check your science slider on your 60 turn save. In my game it goes

Monarchy: slider 0% turns to completion --
Monarchy: Slider 10% turns to completion 30
Monarchy: slider 100% turns to completion 30

It makes no difference at all. I don't have the gems worked and I don't have a coastal city, but I have got every worked tile roaded.

If I go to republic it might make a difference, but I want monarchy for the free units. I'm going to have lots of units

Maybe gazza was just good at trading, or the other civs got contact earlier and traded more. I really don't know.
Maybe cracker will shed some light at the interval.....

Originally posted by mad-bax
... usually its the las half of my name that people use...

Click to expand...

That's what I figured, so it seemed more original to take the other half...

Originally posted by mad-bax
Check your science slider on your 60 turn save. In my game it goes

Monarchy: slider 0% turns to completion --
Monarchy: Slider 10% turns to completion 30
Monarchy: slider 100% turns to completion 30

Click to expand...

I know, that's what happens when you get in to the more expensive techs (soon because of the acceleration by cracker) and start slow. When you do that when you just begin to research it, you'll see it go down to 29 or 28 (or lower if you're lucky or if you build libs).

I'm a bit late here. Will start my game tonight though and submit my 60 rounds in a few hours time i guess.

----

Here is the first 61 rounds of my game(counted wrong in my excel file...)

0 4000BC-Move settler NW. Move Worker N.
1 3950BC-Found Entremont. Worker start mine. Start pottery research, slider 90%. Order warrior at Entremont.
2 3900BC-*
3 3850BC-*
4 3800BC-*
5 3750BC-*
6 3700BC-Entremont finish warrior(Wa1), order new. Wa1 NW.
7 3650BC-Wa1 NW. Worker finish mine, start road.
8 3600BC-Wa1 NW.
9 3550BC-Wa1 W.
10 3500BC-Entremont finish warrior(Wa2), order new. Worker finish road, move W. Wa1 SW. Wa2 S.
11 3450BC-Entremont grows, new citizen on fish. Slider at 100%. Wa1 W. Wa2 SW. Worker start mine.
12 3400BC-Wa1 W. Wa2 S.
13 3350BC-Entremont finish warrior(Wa3), order barracks as prebuild for granary. Wa1 W. Wa2 S. Wa3 garrison in Entremont.
14 3300BC-Wa1 W - meet Carthage workers. Trade nothing as he has too tough demands. Wa2 SE. Slider at 50%.
15 3250BC-Pottery researched, start researching mysticsm. Will aim straight for monarchy and hope that my warriors can defend my ICS cities while I get there. Slider at 100%. Tried to trade with Hannibal who lack burial, code and pottery - but he obviously must have a hunch about what I did to him in GOTM18. No trade is made. Wa1 SW. Wa2 S.
16 3200BC-Wa1 S. Wa2 S. What? Hannibal allready has pottery somehow... He will surely be the first to feel the pointy end of my swords.
17 3150BC-A greec warrior approach wa1 in the west, the sad truth after my meeting with him is that he has all my tech and I lack 4 of his. An Iroquios warrior approach wa2 from the S, Hiawatha has our techs and we could use his bronze. No trade made this round either. My plan to make a beeline for monarchy and build ICS around Entremont has to remain as I'm slowly being reduced to a backwards nation. Will try to trade some with Rome then in the East. Wa1 SW. Wa2 E. Worker finish mine, start road.
18 3100BC-Entremont grows, new citizen on 2. mined grass. Wa1 W. Wa2 E.
19 3050BC-Wa1 W. Wa2 E.
20 3000BC-Worker finish road, move N. Wa1 W. Wa2 E - spots roman border.
21 2950BC-Wa1 W. Wa2 E - contact Ceasar and trade pottery + burial for worker+10 gold. Slave join worker NW - N of Entremont. Wa2 also meets a pictish warrior directly south of him...
22 2900BC-Wa1 W. Wa2 N - the pict went E towards rome. Slave join work on mine.
23 2850BC-Wa1 W. Wa2 N.
24 2800BC-Wa1 W. Wa2 N.
25 2750BC-Wa1 NW. Wa2 NW. Entremont grows to 4, 4. citizen on grass being mined. Lux at 10%, science 90%.
26 2710BC-Entremont finish granary, order settler. Put 4. citizen on lake to time growth with settler production, 5-3-5. Wa1 NW. Wa2 NW. Slider at 80%sci/10%lux. Mine finished, Worker+slave(workgroup1(WG1)) start road.
27 2670BC-Wa1 NW. Wa2 N.
28 2630BC-Wa1 NW. Wa2 NE. WG1 NE.
29 2590BC-Wa1 W. Wa2 N. WG1 start mine.
30 2550BC-Wa1 NW. Wa2 N.
31 2510BC-preturn: Finish research mysticism. Trade Alph+bronze for myst+1g to ceasar. Trade myst for 7G and masonry from Alex. Trade nothing to Carth, he has all my techs except burial. Trade nothing to Hiawatha, he lacks alph, myst and masonry. Start researching poly at 10% science/10%lux. Trade mysticism to hiawata for 31 G. Put 4. citizen from lake to 3. mined grass. During turn: Wa1 N, Wa2 N.
32 2470BC-Entremont finish settler, order barracks. Settler move to tile NE - NE - N of Entremont. Wa1 N. Wa2 N. Citizens 1&2 on mined BG(bonushielded grass) and #3 on fish. Slider at 10%sci/0%lux.
33 2430BC-Wa1 N - meet Joan of the French. I trade pottery + burial for 11g+worker and mysticism+59G for 2 french workers. Wa2 NW. 3 french workers join WG1 2 tiles N of Entremont.
34 2390BC-Alesia Founded 2 tiles NE and 1 tile N of Entremont. Citizen on mined BG. Order Granary at Alesia. Wa1 SW. Wa2 NW. WG1 finish road, 1worker+1slave move 2 tiles W.
35 2350BC-worker+slave start road. 3 slaves join WG1 again. Wa1 SW. Wa2 NW.
36 2310BC-Entremont finish barracks, order settler. Entremont grows to 4, 4. citizen on mined BG. 3 last slaves start road. Wa1 SW. Wa2 NW. Lux at 10%. Hiawatha has iron working.
37 2270BC-Wa1 SW. Wa2 N - discover hut NE of him, decide to leave it for now.
38 2230BC-Wa1 S - meet Cleopatra of Egypt. Trade alph+1g for the wheel. Trade the wheel for 59G from Joan. WG1 finish road, move NE to cattle.
39 2190BC-Wa1 S. Wa2 N - spot volcano at the eastern landbrigde. WG1 start/finish road at cattle.
40 2150BC-Entremont grows, 5. citizen on lake. Sci10%/lux20%. Wa1 S. Wa2 NW. WG1 NW.
41 2110BC-Entremont finish settler, order warrior. Settler move to tile 3 tiles NE of Alesia. Wa1 S. Wa2 W. Citizens 1&2 on mined BG(bonushielded grass) and #3 on fish. Slider at 10%sci/0%lux. WG1 finish road 2 tiles NE of Alesia. Alex has writing.
42 2070BC-Wa1 S. Wa2 W - spot volcanoes on western landbridge. WG1 N.
43 2030BC-Entremont finish warrior(Wa4), order new warrior. Wa1 S - spot Aztec border. Wa2 W. WG1 start irrigating plains. Settler has to make a new destination 6 tiles NE of Entremont since an Iroquois warrior occupies the original destination. Wa4 joins WG1 to guard them.
44 1990BC-Lugdunum founded 6 tiles NE of Entremont, order granary there - citizen on N cattle. Entremont grows, change prod from warrior to settler. Alesia grows, 2. citizen on S cattle. Wa1 S, Wa2 W. Trade iron working for mysticism and the wheel(i think...forgot to write it down during trade). Both Alex and Hiaw has writing now and they have contact with chinese and english. Sci 10%/Lux10%.
45 1950BC-Trade contacts with aztec/romans/egypt to Iroquois for writing and contact with chinese. Trade contacts with aztec/romans/egypt to Greeks for contact with english and 33G. Trade contact with english for 34G with the chinese. Wa1 W. Wa2 W. WG1 finish irr, start and finish road. Wa4 joins up with WG1.
46 1910BC-WG1 go W to cattle. Wa1 W. Wa2 E. Trade alph for contact with japaneese and 11G from Monty of the aztecs. Trade alph for 34G from an annoyed Tokugawa of the Japanese - he's cautious after the trade. Change prod at Lugd from granary to temple.
47 1870BC-Wa1 NE. Wa2 S. WG1 start irrigation on N cattle.
48 1830BC-Entremont finish settler, order warrior. Settler move to tile 3 tiles NW of Alesia. Wa1 NE. Wa2 S. Citizens 1&2 on mined BG(bonushielded grass) and #3 on fish. Slider at 10%sci/0%lux.
49 1790BC-Wa1 N. Wa2 S. WG1 finish irr, start and finish road.
50 1750BC- Founded Camulodunum 3 tiles NE of Alesia, order barracks. Citizen on mined BG. Wa1 N. Wa2 SE. WG1 move to S cattle and start Irr. Greece, Iroquois and China has horseback.
51 1725BC-Wa1 N. Wa2 SE.
52 1700BC-Entremont finish warrior(wa5), order settler. Entremont grow to 4, 4. citizen on BG. Wa1 N. Wa2 SE. WG1 finish irr cattle SE of Lugd, move WG1 to BG S of Camu. Lugd grows, citizen on forest. Alesia finish granary, order settler. Wa4 garrisons in Alesia. Alesia grows to 3, citizen on forest.
53 1675BC-Wa1 N. Wa2 garrisons in Camu. Alesia 3. citizen from forest to mined BG where Lugd citizen was. Lugd citizen on BG.
54 1650BC-Wa1 N. WG1 start mine BG S of Camu.
55 1625BC-Lugd finish temple, start granary. Wa1 N. Vet warrior set to move from Entremont to Alesia.
56 1600BC-Entremont grows, citizens on lake+3 mined BG + fish. Lux 10%/sci 10%. WG1 finish mine, start and finish road. Camu citizen from mined BG to normal BG. Alesia citizens forest + mined BG + irr cattle. Lugd citizens on 2 irr cattle. Trade horseback for writing + contact with japs with rome. Trade horseback for 56G from Monty. Wa1 W.
57 1575BC-Entremont finish settler, order spearman - send settler 3 tiles S and 1 tile SE. Alesia finish Settler, order barracks - send settler to tile S - SW - SW of Entremont. Entr citizens on MBG+MBG+fish. Alesia citizens on MBG+MBG. Wa1 W. WG1 move to gems in mountain N of Camu. Sci 10%/lux 0%.
58 1550BC-Wa1 W. WG1 start road.
59 1525BC-Wa1 W. Vet warroir from Alesia to Lugd. Lugd grows, citizens on irr plain(IP)+2 irr cattle(IC).
60 1500BC-Camu finish barracks, order warrior - camu grows, citizens on BG+MBG. Warrior garrison in Lugd. Entr grows, citizens on Fish+3 MBG. Alesia on IC+MBG. Lugd on IC+IP+Forest. SAVE MADE. SCREEN TAKEN.

Round 61 save...


Some numbers at 1500BC: 4 cities, 6 warriors, 2 settlers, 1 worker, 4 slaves, 2 granaries, 2 barrackses, 1 temple, 454G in treasury, 11 citizens,
59 shields in the bin, all contacts, techs: bronze, iron, masonry, pottery, alph, writing, wheel, warrior code, horseback, burial, myst and 1 turn to poly.

As you can see my ICS was abandoned for a quasi optimal build with focus on food and gems

Singularity interesting to see you expanded East first, makes your game looking different from the others. I think it'll benefit your economy, OTOH it could make you a target for the babs later on, depending on where the neoCartagians will settle. Do you use CivIII or PTW? I can only open the save-files of players who use CivIII .

Oh, I use PTW . But I will keep making fully reproducable timelines down to the tiniest citizen manipulation. Regarding the expansion. Yes, I will actually aim for a tighter build in the northeast with a FP 2 tiles E of the worker/slaves on the gems.

I forgot to mention that I of cource play this game with some knowlede on the terrain and resource location. But the positive side is that the AI is acting very differently in this game: Joan still only has her capitol after I traded all her workers to me, Aztecs, english and greece has 5 cities and Hiawatha has a whopping 7 cities, while I should have nice potential energy stored in my 3 high food cities. I aim for some hopefully interesting tactics to speed up my late game result when I approach turn 120. In my eyes early aggresion and even a goody hut pop could be disastrous in a game like this so I try to play a safe builder game until I get to monarchy and can release my swords. Another thing I noticed is the persistant AI curiousity to the volcanoes like a moth being drawn to a flame...

here I am to turn 60. Can't find the time to play as fast as needed --- sigh. Turn 90 done now, as well (see next post).

Not sure how I weigh up - guess we'll see later .

I thought I would type a short view of how I see the sitution at turn 60:

Capitol placement: Most players founded Entremont where we started. Except Smirk and me who went NW to get the benefit from the fish that will be inside our borders once Entremont grows.

First tech: More diverse routes here. Gazza and wanderer chase after Bronze, while Smirk, Styler1 and me aim for pottery, we all research at max pace, 90 or 100% science. Space_Oddity go for 100% tax and will buy her way up the ancient tech three. Mad_Bax obviously has monarchy in his sight, and will trade the exces gold from low science to get techs like pottery at a reasonable time.


Space Oddity: 2800BC build granary/2590BC first settler.
Mad_Bax: Early 2. city, found Alesia in 2950BC. Dual granary in Alesia and Entremont - share fish at lake.
Smirk: 2850BC build granary/2590 worker/2390BC first settler.
Gazza: 2950BC granary/2470 first settler.
Singularity: 2750 Granary/2470 first settler.

Interesting to see 6 quite different games. Space Oddity's seem to be an extreme in one direction, while Mad_Bax should tell us how he fares with his early settler/dual granary/monarchy rush in the next round of reports. Tech trading has been much the same, with an exception in gazza who seem to be in an amped game where tech is researched faster than ours. I'm a bit curious to how people end up in 1000BC with city spread and corruption and also how the treasuries will be prepared for the unavoidable massupgrades ahead of us.

Sorry it's late, been out the country the last few days.
It's starting to speed up a bit now, I'm about to build my third town. Somehow, I seem to be the slowest player posting here though, I'm not having the trade luck that everyone else is. I am however, learning a lot from all the descriptive posts here though.
On that note all I can add is my small contribution timeline and game save!!

Click here for timeline.

Cant seem to attach game save it's 106k zipped and the limit is 102k so...



Turn 31 to 60

@singularity: that is an interesting difference, it will be good to see what the longer term effect will be. Two extra players completed and posted so I took the opportunity to find the info to add to your summary (thanks BTW):

Wanderer: settler 3000BC/ granary in 1500BC
Styler-1: granary 3100BC/ settler 2590BC

@Styler-1: it is probably better to build the granary later after Entremont growed a little in this case, like you did. Note the difference in turns between granary and settler.

I took the time to see what the result in #cities was after 60 turns (keeping sequence as before, altough I know I should not put myself first ):

Space Oddity: 5, 1 settler
Mad_Bax: 6, 1 settler
Smirk: at least 4
Gazza: 3, 1 settler
Singularity: 4, 2 settlers
Wanderer: 3
Styler-1: 2, 1 settler

I'm leaving commentary to the spearheets - time tight here. Noticed the review of cities/settler at 60 turns - hmm- I've had an explosion since then!


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/60_turns-_1500_bc.zip

@ Mad, and all using his spreadsheet. 4000 bc is classed as turn 0 in spreadsheet, not turn 1. That's why Cracker refers to 1525 bc save as 60, and NOT 1500 bc, as I had it.

@cracker - Just realized this now hope the fact that mine are out by 1 is OK - at least my 120 turn should be right now.

@ styler - use UPLOAD FILE function at bottom of web page - cn handle up to 3 MB.

ALL - well, reached 120. Will avoid giving details, but I have screenshots of world, minimap and army, and powergraph, as well as relatively complete "mad" timesheet. Looking forward to seeing ya' all then (tomorrow)!

Singularity and Space:

Thanks for the comparisons, it puts things into perspective nicely. I think that Singularities move of settling between the cattle to the east is a really strong move. I thought quite hard about how to exploit that myself, but didn't think of irrigating from the river to the cattle. Without the irrigation the city would not be nearly as good.

Yes, sharing the fish would be a good idea in my game. Unfortunately you mistook me for someone who was clever enough to think of it. . I will have to play from turn 30 again now to see if it makes a difference. I reckon I could have given 3 food every 7th turn to Entremont and produced 1 extra settler. I'm still not good enough to take advantage of micromanagement, but it will come one day.

Has anyone been to the Barb peninsula yet? In my game there is a sneaky difference to GOTM which could be due to the RNG, but might otherwise be due to external human intervention.....:

I got distracted from the barbs, when I post my next turns you'll see why. What should be the next cut-off point? turn 80 (=1000BC) or turn 90 (=60+30)?

I'm going to post a full timeline to 1000BC, and a description up to turn 90 with a picture. Cracker wants the 1000BC timeline for comparison with the official QSC. I will also post saves from both. Can't do it till the kids are in bed tonight tho'.

Ok, here are my turns upto the QSC limit:


1500BC (61) - Our first vet archer is built in Lugdunum, it starts a settler now. Entremont completes the warrior starts settler. The horsies are in sight. We will settle on top of it!

1475BC (62) - Our settler pair is on the horses now. Established embassies in Rome and Athens. The Greek are building 2 wonders.

1450BC (63) - Verularium built on the horses, starts worker (for our road).

1425BC (64) - Okay, so the AI have met each other and now most have Lit, Map Making and Code of Laws. I buy Map Making from neoCarthago for WM and 60 gold. I could buy Code of Laws @3rd or Lit., but its too expensive and I dont want to reach the new age too soon. Nobody has Math yet, so its ok for the time being. Sell TM for 4 gold to Egypt. The others are broke.

1400BC (65) - Alesia builds vet Archer. Starts settler. Switched L. to spear to finish next turn, no shields lost. Archers move to our newest city (near Rome ).

1375BC (66) - France will sell us Literature for WM and 29g straight, we make the deal.

1350BC (67) - E. builds settler, starts warrior. Worker completed in iron city, starts road.

1325BC (68) - Greece has Philisophy now, next turn most others will have it too. Our Math. will be ready in 8, I think we'll beat Greece to it!

1275BC (69) - Gergovia founded, starts granary.

1250BC (70) - We are making a nice 11gpt.

1225BC (71) - We are making 12gpt.

1200BC (72) - E. completes spear, starts settler. Verularium completes worker starts barracks. Lugdunum completes settler, starts spear.

1175BC (73) - Our settler pair moves on the hill next to the wheat (W). Cam. builds settler that will settle near the gems. Math in 2 turn at (9.1.0). We cross our fingers (Greece still hasn't got it).

1150BC (74) - LLeorycantores founded, starts barracks. Damn, the others have Math now! Well, never mind, we are last in the histograph no more .

1125BC (75) - Math. is in, poly started. Sell Math. to France for Philosophy, TM and 15g. Buy Code of Laws for WM and 89g from neoCarthago. Brempovia founded, starts barracks, chop forest to speed things up. We spot Roman settler guarded by a warrior. Its a pity our stength is not big enough yet.

1100BC (76) - Syrplebonum founded, on the hill next to the gems, starts worker. We have now 10 cities, and a settler ready next turn.

1075BC (77) - Iron online, E. builds settler, starts spear. Settler will move to the river.

1050BC (78) - Cam builds our last warrior, starts settler. Rome founds Pompeii next to mountains, pity the vulcano is not next to it ! Micro manage to help build temple and granary within reasonable time.

1025BC (79) - Nearing QSC cutoff, I'm curious how this game compares.

1000BC (80) - Augustodurum founded on hills near the river. L. finishes spear, starts European Sword. Brokering opportunity: Greece and England have Polytheism, I can buy it and sell it for gold and maps! Will do! They both ask WM, 5gpt and 95gold. Greece is by far the weakest and will share our frontline with the barbs, they will receive my money.
neoCartago: 60 gold and TM
France: 18 gold and TM
China: 47 gold and TM
Aztecs: 59 gold and TM
Egypt has nothing to offer, Japan only 13g and TM so I'll leave them in the dark, Rome has nothing and will receive nothing either.
So now we have 206g and still making 12gpt.

A pciture of our lands (note the Horseman build in the Eastern most city)



save 1000BC

And the next 10 turns, where things start to heat up:

975BC (81) - Our army is stonger or average compared to the AIs now. Establish embassy with NeoCart. (Pyramids in 80+ turns) and Iroquois (Great Lib in 70ish turns).

950BC (82) - E, builds spear, send its defending Warrior to a Barrack-city to upgrade. E. starts settler.

925BC (83) - What is that Roman archer doing on our grounds, I ask him to leave, he says 'sorry, no offense, we'll move', I doubt if he will...

900BC (84) - Roman archer *fortifies* on our hill, it is not even hurt! Aha, he's up to no good. I upgrade a warrior to our first European Sword, go Celts! Ll. builds worker, starts Temple.

875BC (85) - Forest cleared our first temple now ready in 2 turns. Worker moves to mine BG near Alesia. That's funny I can decide to start war with Rome by telling its archer to leave , what is more, it has to get off the hill first before it can attack!

850BC (86) - Rome now has two units on our land, they're up to no good. I upgrade another warrior and will ask Rome to leave (they will attack anyway). Surprise, they don't want to leave and declare war . Our Swordsman attacks the archer and wins, which of course starts our Golden Age! It is a vet now. Our warrior attacks Roman warrior, wins and upgrades.

825BC (87) - Our diplomats forge a military alliance with Iroq against the Roman for our WM and 7 gold. This will help us in two ways, the Roman effort will have to split between us and the Iroq OTOH the Iroqs will be slowed down. E. completes settler, starts European sword.

800BC (88) - The Aztec complete the Oracle.

775BC (89) - Ver. completes Horseman, starts Barracks. Agendincum founded, starts Barracks.

750BC (90) - A Roman warrior moves on the iron. Our Eur. sword tries to kill him but fails!

to be continued...