MacBaldrick
Warlord
This is the Zippped file I produced. Lets see if I can get it back myself.
GOTM23 Succession Game [civ3]
- Thread starter ControlFreak
- Start date
MacBaldrick
Warlord
This is the Zippped file I produced. Lets see if I can get it back myself.
Whoops! Waaay too late! Well done, MacBaldrick, fast turnaround!
I've got it, I'll have a quick look and see if If I can get it to you tonight, Smackster. Anyone got any comments before I begin?
AlanH (playing now)
smackster (on deck, and rarin' to go!)
Karasu
Alweth
MacBaldrick
I've got it, I'll have a quick look and see if If I can get it to you tonight, Smackster. Anyone got any comments before I begin?
AlanH (playing now)
smackster (on deck, and rarin' to go!)
Karasu
Alweth
MacBaldrick
smackster
SGOTM
Only one comment, civ before sleep. Stay up until you have done it, you know you'll regret it if you don't.
An offer I can't refuse? Now it's your turn to stay up all night ...
Here's my report:
1525 BC Check status
Otomans have Rome contact for 169 gold. The rest only hve 80 gold, so we can't get our cash back. I decide to hold off until it gets cheaper or we meet them ourselves.
Adjust slider to 9.1.0.
Objectives: develop the map, trade our socks off and settle three cities. Build some barracks and a pile of gold for upgrades.
Hit space bar.
IBT Iron road completeed, Carthage starts Pyramids, Ottoman starts Oracle.
Venerable Bede reports happiest nations: Arabs - Yeah - Spain, Egypt, Rome, Ottomans, France, Zulu, Persia.
T1 1500 BC Polytheism 11 turns
Settler continues E. Iron workers move to flood plains SE & E of Madinah.
Scouts to SE and SW to fill map gaps and find Rome.
Diplo: Ottoman and Zulu have HBR. Zulus researched it and sold it to Ottomans.
Ottoman now offers Rome for 84 gold. It's a deal, as we can get a lot of that back from the other civs.
Rome needs Masonry, Pottery, Wheel, Mysticism, has 7 gold. Has Ironworking, but needs to hook up iron to build legions.
Sell Rome to Egypt for 32 gold, Persia for 6, France for 16, India for 1. Sell Spain to Rome for 7. We got 62 back, so net cost was 22 gold. Carthage has still not met Rome, but has no cash.
Send Makkah's second warrior souht to seek out barbs from the camp that's visible. We'd like to promote a few warriors.
IBT Ottomans complain about scout near Iznik.
T2 1475 BC Polytheism 10 turns
Warrior heads south, settler moves east to city site next to spices.
Makkah grows. Slider to 8.1.1 to keep them happy until another warrior comes by.
Scouts scout.
IBT Ottoman settler and spear seen by SE scout. Damascus completes warrior, starts Barracks (10 turns).
Diplo: Ottomans have spent some cash, now has 56 left, not sure what he spent it on ...
T3 1450 BC Polytheism 9 turns
Damascus warrior to Makkah to keep them happy. Slider to 9.1.0
Barb camp appeared next to SW scout. Scout moves W, SW away from camp. Carthage warriors close by will dispose of camp.
Diplo: no change
IBT Makkah completes settler, starts settler
T4 1425 BC Polytheism 8 turns
Rome must have killed a barb camp, has 25 gold, and is annoyed.
Sell Carthage to Rome for 21 gold. We've now broken even (-1 gold) on the Rome contact deals.
Scouts keep scouting, warriors head south for barbs.
IBT Madinah completes barraxks, starts swordsman (8 turns)
T5 1400 BC Polytheism 7 turns
Worker completes road on flood plain. Moves to north to irrigate towards Damascus
Diplo no change
T6 1375 BC Polytheism 6 turns
Diplo: France and Zulu have HBR and Philosophy. Ottomans and Egypt have just HBR. It's wheeler-dealer time
Buy Philosophy from France for 93 gold
Swap Philospophy for HBR with Egypt - she has no cash or gpt.
Ottomans give 56 gold for Philosophy
Carthage gives 25 gold (from that barb camp) for Philosophy
We got HBR + Philosophy for 12 gold.
Scouts keep on scouting.
IBT Barb horse arrives at the gates of Baghdad.
T7 1350 BC polytheism 5 turns
Baghdad produces very well timed warrior, starts warrior (5 turns)
Warrior attacks barb horse and kills it. no promotion
Worker completes moutain road to Riyadh, moves to spices.
Settler builds Jeddah. Scout finds Roman border
IBT Makkah completes settler, starts settler. Egypt starts Oracle.
T8 1325 BC polytheism 4 turns
Settler heads south towards a city location near the Uskadar horses.
Worker starts a road on the spices.
Ottomans and Spain have Mapmaking. Dealing time again.
Buy Mapmaking from Ottomans for wmap + 77 gold
Now maximise our map and sell it around. Start with the most remote civs:
Swap wmaps with Rome
Sell wmap to India for wmap + 3 gold
Sell wmap to Spain for wmap + 20 gold
Sell wmap to France fro wmap + 72 gold
Swap wmaps with Egypt
Sell wmap to Zulus for wmap + 31 gold
Swap wmaps with Persia
Sell wmap to Ottomans for wmap + 61 gold
Sell wmap to Rome for 1 gold
All except Ottomans (24 gold) are flat broke. We have the full continent map.
IBT Barb horse attacks our warrior outside Baghdad and dies. Warrior lost one HP. Rome starts Pyramids.
T9 1300 BC Polytheism 3 turns
Damn! In the trading excitement I forgot to MM Makkah. It's not going to grow quite fast enough, so the next settler will drop its pop to 4. MM now for min food to grow in 2 turns, giving max shields.
Scouts heading back home. Job done.
Diplo no change
T10 1275 BC Polytheism 2 turns
Diplo no change
Wounded warior recovering in Baghdad.
Warrior and settler converging on horse city site. There are three options, all on the river and all far enough away from Uskudar not to be considered provocative. They are the hill at distance 7, the plain at distance 7 or th palin at 6.5. Smackster gets to choose.
Summary:
Two cities settled, one settler in transit.
Makkah needs some recovery MM action to get it back in the groove. Sorry
We are in good shape financially and in terms of techs, and we have Polytheism coming up in two turns. All the vital signs look good right now.
Roster:
AlanH
smackster (24 hours to got it)
Karasu (on deck)
Alweth
MacBaldrick
Here's a screenie:
and here's the SAV:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/SG23C_BC1275.SAV.zip
smackster
SGOTM
Alan,
Good session, great trading. I see the barb fun has started. Well done for staying up so late, don't let it get out of hand mind, don't want you going the way of ControlFreak.
Should get this done tonight, its only midnight and they are still playing baseball. Then again bases loaded with one out, not that you guys would understand that
Smackster
Good session, great trading. I see the barb fun has started. Well done for staying up so late, don't let it get out of hand mind, don't want you going the way of ControlFreak.
Should get this done tonight, its only midnight and they are still playing baseball. Then again bases loaded with one out, not that you guys would understand that
Smackster
smackster
SGOTM
Not extensive notes, but its late
My hasn't our empire grown since I was last here.
I see that we are doing major barracks building, I feel that I'd like to swat that road in front of the iron, so we can build some warriors for upgrade, but I'll stick with what we have. Also as the middle ages is not that far off, would be better to have swords ready for the massive barb uprisings. Plan to build swords and move on Ottoman as soon as possible, want to get the horses ASAP and then start building horses and nothing else. I really like the Roman land, and an FP in Rome would be really nice. Rome being really weak now looks attractive, although they will surely have legions by the time we get there. One thing about this map, is that its a long way for Swords to walk.
1275BC EOT
1: 1250BC
Moving settler towards horses. Set north worker to irrigate plains for Damascus. Upgrade one warrior in Madinah, should get another next turn and these two will start to fish for upgrades. They have the defence to wander anywhere, but very slow, so I'll think about where they go.
Micromanage Makkah to squeeze extra growth, Settler in one. Micromanage Medinah for a little growth.
Otto have Maths, but want 320 gold, I don't think so.
EOT
2: 1225BC
Discover Poly, now Monarch at 10%. Seems like a plan as we are going to war, we are sure to get it first and can trade for the other techs. Don't really want to speed too fast to the MA.
Zulu have 75 Gold and give it to us for Map Making. I'm not giving Poly to Otto for Maths, we'll get it in our own time.
Moving next settler west over mountain to settle 4 from Mecca.
Research set to max, can get Monarchy in 23. My feeling is that the benifit we'll get from that outweighs the loss of gold. -4 per turn.
3: 1200BC
13 gold for map from France. This shows us a new barb hut south of Medinah, swords moving in.
Dharan, settled near horses.
4: 1175BC
India have 50 gold and give it to us for our map. Spices roaded so now we are all very very happy. Begins building road towards horses
5: 1150BC
Najran settled west of Mecca.
Roading round north mountains. Sell our map again for 10 gold to egypt. They love paying for our map
6: 1125BC
Settler built in Mecca. Barb horses appear, not uprising, one in range of swords. Continue to upgrade warriors to swords and keep the cash the same with all the map trades. Warrior on mountain lost to barb warrior. Sword kills horse, one hp left, no upgrade boo.
7: 1100BC
Barb horse next to Bagdad, warrior kills him, no upgrade
8: 1075BC
Giving Mecca a rest from Settler, building a spear, needs to catch up pop to get back to 4 turns.
Decide to take 49 gold and maths for poly from Otto
Not much else going on this turn.
9: 1050BC
South Barb camp dispersed, still no upgrades. Swords move to east to take that barb camp.
France has Literature, and we get that +7 for Poly.
10: 1025BC
Set Damascus to build temple (only 5 turns), we've got to build some, we have lots of swords now, lots more coming.
Ottomans building GL, Spain Oracle. We set worker building mine on gold near Madinah.
.sav not big enough to bother zipping
My hasn't our empire grown since I was last here.
I see that we are doing major barracks building, I feel that I'd like to swat that road in front of the iron, so we can build some warriors for upgrade, but I'll stick with what we have. Also as the middle ages is not that far off, would be better to have swords ready for the massive barb uprisings. Plan to build swords and move on Ottoman as soon as possible, want to get the horses ASAP and then start building horses and nothing else. I really like the Roman land, and an FP in Rome would be really nice. Rome being really weak now looks attractive, although they will surely have legions by the time we get there. One thing about this map, is that its a long way for Swords to walk.
1275BC EOT
1: 1250BC
Moving settler towards horses. Set north worker to irrigate plains for Damascus. Upgrade one warrior in Madinah, should get another next turn and these two will start to fish for upgrades. They have the defence to wander anywhere, but very slow, so I'll think about where they go.
Micromanage Makkah to squeeze extra growth, Settler in one. Micromanage Medinah for a little growth.
Otto have Maths, but want 320 gold, I don't think so.
EOT
2: 1225BC
Discover Poly, now Monarch at 10%. Seems like a plan as we are going to war, we are sure to get it first and can trade for the other techs. Don't really want to speed too fast to the MA.
Zulu have 75 Gold and give it to us for Map Making. I'm not giving Poly to Otto for Maths, we'll get it in our own time.
Moving next settler west over mountain to settle 4 from Mecca.
Research set to max, can get Monarchy in 23. My feeling is that the benifit we'll get from that outweighs the loss of gold. -4 per turn.
3: 1200BC
13 gold for map from France. This shows us a new barb hut south of Medinah, swords moving in.
Dharan, settled near horses.
4: 1175BC
India have 50 gold and give it to us for our map. Spices roaded so now we are all very very happy. Begins building road towards horses
5: 1150BC
Najran settled west of Mecca.
Roading round north mountains. Sell our map again for 10 gold to egypt. They love paying for our map
6: 1125BC
Settler built in Mecca. Barb horses appear, not uprising, one in range of swords. Continue to upgrade warriors to swords and keep the cash the same with all the map trades. Warrior on mountain lost to barb warrior. Sword kills horse, one hp left, no upgrade boo.
7: 1100BC
Barb horse next to Bagdad, warrior kills him, no upgrade
8: 1075BC
Giving Mecca a rest from Settler, building a spear, needs to catch up pop to get back to 4 turns.
Decide to take 49 gold and maths for poly from Otto
Not much else going on this turn.
9: 1050BC
South Barb camp dispersed, still no upgrades. Swords move to east to take that barb camp.
France has Literature, and we get that +7 for Poly.
10: 1025BC
Set Damascus to build temple (only 5 turns), we've got to build some, we have lots of swords now, lots more coming.
Ottomans building GL, Spain Oracle. We set worker building mine on gold near Madinah.
.sav not big enough to bother zipping
Alweth
Chieftain
Well, it looks like we're making great progress with well thought-out turns. If Karasu can play his game tomorrow (Thursday) I should be able to finish mine on Friday and then we can power off a few more turns on the weekend.
Good progress 
Got the save, I'll look for some ways to stir up trouble in our nice little world: Rome appears to be growing really fast, and we need to start thinking about them soon. India seems to be a good, lower-resistance alternative both for expansion and for our FP (if we get a leader...).
It would also be nice, as soon as we start a war, to get the other civs at war with one another.
I will try to place one-two cities towards Persia.
After that, I think there is room for one more city north of the horses and a couple south of Najran (?).
Got the save, I'll look for some ways to stir up trouble in our nice little world: Rome appears to be growing really fast, and we need to start thinking about them soon. India seems to be a good, lower-resistance alternative both for expansion and for our FP (if we get a leader...).
It would also be nice, as soon as we start a war, to get the other civs at war with one another.
I will try to place one-two cities towards Persia.
After that, I think there is room for one more city north of the horses and a couple south of Najran (?).
Note to all: I zipped the file because it was noted earlier that it gives added protection against corruption, as it is sum checked by the zip wrapper. I think that's probably important, as a subtle corruption could jump out and bite us much later on and then we'd be dead in the water.
Well played, Smackster. Baseball? Is that like rounders? [DUCK!]
Good trade on Mathematics, and our cities are falling into place well. Quite right to upgrade before going barb hunting. That was a mistake on my part.
We can't unhook the iron without damaging the quick road from Makkah to Madinah, unless we destroy the mountain road, and that's expensive to rebuild. So I think we leave it there, and use unconnected ciies to build more warriors until we connect them. We should be on to horse building soon, anyway.
BTW I moved Jeddah nearer to Damascus than planned when I realised we could get to the four olives with one city at radius 4, and the fact that it's a bit near to Damascus is not a big deal as they mainly share mountains. It made more room for Najran as well, so I think that's OK.
Karasu, your plan sounds the right way to go. I agree we are getting near pointy stick time. I didn't buy any more embassies, but it might be a good idea to do that while we have cash lying idle.
I can't do another dot map until later, but you've identified the right places for the next few cities, so go for it. if someone else wants to give it a try, feel free. In any case, we'll start having to take account of new builds by Ottoman, Carthage and Persia soon, so we need to stay flexible on future city placement. Let's fill in around our two ring circus right now, taking advantage of resources and sticking roughly with radius 4 and 7, the start looking for opportunities around the 10 range. There's lots of space down south, and some unclaimed horses, though the distance and OCC corruption will kick in down there.
We ought to start thinking about prebuilding for a wonder. Hanging Gardens might be a good investment if we want to war in Republic or Democracy later, and for sure it would be good to get the Sun Tzu and Leo twins. We should also consider whether we want to start building the Forbidden Palace locally now, ready for a leader-built Palace in another capital later - that's my preferred plan normally, but I'd welcome a discussion. If we do decide to build the FP locally then I would vote for one of the towns south of Makkah, as it will move the center in the direction where we have most free space to expand.
TedJackson is looking after the other team, so I'll liaise with him on communications when we get to the QSC and spoiler 1 conditions - they are already past that stage, so as soon as we get there we'll be able to make some comparisons.
@Alweth: You asked a question earlier about popping an empty hut. If it's empty that's all you get - zilch. Doesn't matter who pops it. Scouts are best at hut popping as a rule, as they never pop barbs. We haven't had much luck with huts this game though, have we! One Settler?
We are doing very well. Keep up the good work, Karasu and Alweth.
Roster:
AlanH
smackster
Karasu (playing)
Alweth (on deck)
MacBaldrick
Well played, Smackster. Baseball? Is that like rounders? [DUCK!]
Good trade on Mathematics, and our cities are falling into place well. Quite right to upgrade before going barb hunting. That was a mistake on my part.
We can't unhook the iron without damaging the quick road from Makkah to Madinah, unless we destroy the mountain road, and that's expensive to rebuild. So I think we leave it there, and use unconnected ciies to build more warriors until we connect them. We should be on to horse building soon, anyway.
BTW I moved Jeddah nearer to Damascus than planned when I realised we could get to the four olives with one city at radius 4, and the fact that it's a bit near to Damascus is not a big deal as they mainly share mountains. It made more room for Najran as well, so I think that's OK.
Karasu, your plan sounds the right way to go. I agree we are getting near pointy stick time. I didn't buy any more embassies, but it might be a good idea to do that while we have cash lying idle.
I can't do another dot map until later, but you've identified the right places for the next few cities, so go for it. if someone else wants to give it a try, feel free. In any case, we'll start having to take account of new builds by Ottoman, Carthage and Persia soon, so we need to stay flexible on future city placement. Let's fill in around our two ring circus right now, taking advantage of resources and sticking roughly with radius 4 and 7, the start looking for opportunities around the 10 range. There's lots of space down south, and some unclaimed horses, though the distance and OCC corruption will kick in down there.
We ought to start thinking about prebuilding for a wonder. Hanging Gardens might be a good investment if we want to war in Republic or Democracy later, and for sure it would be good to get the Sun Tzu and Leo twins. We should also consider whether we want to start building the Forbidden Palace locally now, ready for a leader-built Palace in another capital later - that's my preferred plan normally, but I'd welcome a discussion. If we do decide to build the FP locally then I would vote for one of the towns south of Makkah, as it will move the center in the direction where we have most free space to expand.
TedJackson is looking after the other team, so I'll liaise with him on communications when we get to the QSC and spoiler 1 conditions - they are already past that stage, so as soon as we get there we'll be able to make some comparisons.
@Alweth: You asked a question earlier about popping an empty hut. If it's empty that's all you get - zilch. Doesn't matter who pops it. Scouts are best at hut popping as a rule, as they never pop barbs. We haven't had much luck with huts this game though, have we! One Settler?
We are doing very well. Keep up the good work, Karasu and Alweth.
Roster:
AlanH
smackster
Karasu (playing)
Alweth (on deck)
MacBaldrick
Alan, good points as usual.
I am not sure of the FP location -our starting area is not astonishing in its beauty... I was thinking of Riyadh, but it's questionable.
I agree anyway on starting a local FP build as soon as possible, as this seems indeed the more flexible approach.
We also need to start discussing where we want our second core.
Ideally, the second Cataphract-producing area should be in the centre of the map. But I can't find a 'nice' placement there.
My first impressions:
- Persia: close, easy to conquer (they are *not* going to connect that Iron, are they?
) but not too good a place.
- Ottomans: similar to Persia. Actually, expanding there would probably force us to deal with the Romans next.
- Rome: good place, might be a 'natural' target if we hit the Ottomans now (which would somewhat compensate for the distance, as some attacking units would already be there). Will require a larger Swordsmen army, though (so possibly need to disconnect and reconnect Iron).
- India: similar to Rome, possibly easier to conquer but far away. And if we go for India we risk facing Immortals and Legions...
- Carthage: I don't like facing 3-def points units right now. Plus, their lands are not too nice, even though well placed for an attack on the western civs.
Talking about wonders, I would just concentrate on one or two vital ones and let the AI build the others.
I would go for Sun Tzu over Leonardo, based on the assumption that we will reach domination before Military Tradition, so that we could stop research as soon as we get Chivalry and get enough money for the upgrades and build directly Cataphracts during the Golden Age.
This too, of course, is more than debatable.
I am not sure of the FP location -our starting area is not astonishing in its beauty... I was thinking of Riyadh, but it's questionable.
I agree anyway on starting a local FP build as soon as possible, as this seems indeed the more flexible approach.
We also need to start discussing where we want our second core.
Ideally, the second Cataphract-producing area should be in the centre of the map. But I can't find a 'nice' placement there.
My first impressions:
- Persia: close, easy to conquer (they are *not* going to connect that Iron, are they?
) but not too good a place.- Ottomans: similar to Persia. Actually, expanding there would probably force us to deal with the Romans next.
- Rome: good place, might be a 'natural' target if we hit the Ottomans now (which would somewhat compensate for the distance, as some attacking units would already be there). Will require a larger Swordsmen army, though (so possibly need to disconnect and reconnect Iron).
- India: similar to Rome, possibly easier to conquer but far away. And if we go for India we risk facing Immortals and Legions...
- Carthage: I don't like facing 3-def points units right now. Plus, their lands are not too nice, even though well placed for an attack on the western civs.
Talking about wonders, I would just concentrate on one or two vital ones and let the AI build the others.
I would go for Sun Tzu over Leonardo, based on the assumption that we will reach domination before Military Tradition, so that we could stop research as soon as we get Chivalry and get enough money for the upgrades and build directly Cataphracts during the Golden Age.
This too, of course, is more than debatable.
MacBaldrick
Warlord
Alan,
Thanks for clarifying empty bard huts - it was what I though happens.
IMHO For the future we should place city next to horses to South. When we grab horses near Dharahn I think we lock out the Ottamans UU cavalry - maybe they will be history by then.
As a leader can build either new Capital or Forbidden Palace (say in Roman lands) I would stick with our current capital as the alt FP sites are not really that good.
If we could flip Uskudar we might still get a ROP with the Ottomans to attack Rome. Without iron (& legions) they are not to be feared and it will be pretty inaccessable to any other AI so we can concentrate our forces in the centre.
It gets interesting !
Thanks for clarifying empty bard huts - it was what I though happens.
IMHO For the future we should place city next to horses to South. When we grab horses near Dharahn I think we lock out the Ottamans UU cavalry - maybe they will be history by then.
As a leader can build either new Capital or Forbidden Palace (say in Roman lands) I would stick with our current capital as the alt FP sites are not really that good.
If we could flip Uskudar we might still get a ROP with the Ottomans to attack Rome. Without iron (& legions) they are not to be feared and it will be pretty inaccessable to any other AI so we can concentrate our forces in the centre.
It gets interesting !
MacBaldrick
Warlord
Karasu,
Don't forget to save at 1000 bc for comparison with original QSC.
Don't forget to save at 1000 bc for comparison with original QSC.
smackster
SGOTM
AFAIK Baseball was actually based on rounders, something I love to tell Americans on a regular basis, and particularly the part about rounders being a girls game in England. There is a hint to where I hale from in my location, but maybe it needs to be more specific. MacB might be interested to know I was brought up in Woodley, not too far from Reading, although if he's from western Reading he might not be familiar with Woodley (they don't get out much).
That aside Baseball is IMHO the perfect compliment to Civ. Its a slow long game that has a few really meaningful moments and you can basically concentrate on Civ and look up at the interesting moments.
I think I watched about 140 Baseball games this year (on TV) most while playing Civ.
MacBaldrick
Warlord
Hi Smackster
I know Woodley well as I actual live in Winnersh, only 2 miles down the road.
I know Woodley well as I actual live in Winnersh, only 2 miles down the road.
smackster
SGOTM
We probably know each other, how long have you lived there? . Actually it occured to me last night that I have been away from Reading now for longer than I lived there, by a couple of months (I lived there for 18 years).
Smackster
Lived? In Reading?
I'm not really from those parts, but for eight years I worked in Chineham on the Reading side of Basingstoke. I commuted daily from my home, then as now in Dorset, to avoid living there. Winnersh, or the M4 bypass as I preferred to think of it, was on one of my many alternative routes to the airport.
smackster
SGOTM
Look it wasn't like I had a choice, and somebody has to live there. First chance I got I left home, first chance I got I left the country, still working on the planet thing however.Originally posted by AlanH
Lived? In Reading?
Smackster
Just kidding! Some of my best friends have come from around there. I went to a great wedding near Yately about .... 30 years ago. Boston's nice too. Have they fixed the 5:00pm traffic jam yet? I missed a plane home once while I was stuck in that extended car park.
smackster
SGOTM
I wasn't joking about Reading 
The first two phases of the Boston "Big Dig" have opened. So depending on which route you come it is easier to get to the Airport. However the route I come hasn't been finished yet. Luckily I know the back street route.
The first two phases of the Boston "Big Dig" have opened. So depending on which route you come it is easier to get to the Airport. However the route I come hasn't been finished yet. Luckily I know the back street route.
