Help with Babylon

Good day.
I've just come off Civ, after spending an hour and a half playing as Babylon on King difficulty. I was playing on Continents, and it was me and Byzantium on a single continent. Here's some basic info about my game:

-King difficulty
-Two cities, none coastal
-Continents, with 6 players. (me and 5 AI)
-Completed Liberty, two in Tradition, two in Rationalism
-Order Ideology with 2 Tenents in Tier 1, two in T2 and 1 in T3.
-Playing peacefully, going for Science Victory.

It started pretty good. Plonked down my Great Scientist when I discovered Writing, got Great Library, and immediately after I went for Nat. College. It was going so well with the old science that I actually got Industrialization in 1270! (turn 110ish I think)

When I got my first spy, I placed him in Babylon, because I knew I would need him to defend my techs. However, Byzantium kept stealing tech after tech, and I eventually declared war on her. Even with my 4 Gatling Guns against her Swordsman, and all my other units, her capital alone destroyed my entire army, and I was forced to make peace. As the World Congress was founded, my presence was low and I only got the chance to propose something once. And that failed.

People kept stealing techs from me, and propping their tech up on me. At one point, even with my amazing science, someone overtook me on technologies!

Byzantium then declared war on me with her Riflemen and Artillery (I was pissed off to see that she had Artillery before I did). I smashed her army and we made peace.

Anyway, I got really bored in the end of being ed over with everything. Science is supposed to be Babylon's main thing, and I just don't understand why I'm doing so badly!

Can I get people to point out what they think I've done wrong in this playthrough, or what they would do better? I really want to beat the game on King for the second time. Any general tips for doing this better?

Thanks,
-Lewis

If I were you I would have a little more military, like maybe a few infantry units and some more mobile units (cavalry/tank/etc). But a good way to reduce the AI's tech steal is to build Constabulary, Police Station, and if you make it far enough, the National Intelligence Agency is great, it gives you a fifth spy and reduces the enemy spy effectiveness by 15 more percent. Another good wonder is the Great Firewall, which basically makes it impossible to steal techs from the city it is built in, and makes it harder to steal in other cities. If you didn't build these, or at least the constabulary and police stations, that was the main problem.

Don't DOW an AI just cause they stole techs. It's bad diplomaticly because the other AIs don't care that it stole techs from you; there's only two things third party AIs really care about with regard to war:
1. Who DOWed who
2. And someone taking a city from someone who has very few left (or much worst yet no longer has any cities left)

What to do:
1. Keep a spy in the capital
2. Build Constable in Capital as soon as you get the tech for it (this is BEFORE a bank)
3. Build Police Station in Capital as soon you get the tech for it (this is BEFORE the wonders it opens)
4. Upon reaching tech for Police Station is a very good time to start the campaign to build Constables everywhere followed by Police Stations everywhere; this is for the NIA which will make further slow down enemy spies. (It also promotes all your spies and gives you one more)

Gatling Guns aren't supposed to come within range of enemy cities. They are instead intended to shield artillery type units from the enemy but outside range of enemy cities.
If the enemy has a coastal city: That is was Frigates & Privateers are made for. If not, then you want Artillery (or failing that a Cannon that's been promoted high enough to get +1 range)

Considering you only built two cities, full tradition and freedom would be better options (as opposed to full liberty and order) since they are suited to tall empires.

Delta_301 said:

Good day.
I've just come off Civ, after spending an hour and a half playing as Babylon on King difficulty. I was playing on Continents, and it was me and Byzantium on a single continent. Here's some basic info about my game:

-King difficulty
-Two cities, none coastal
-Continents, with 6 players. (me and 5 AI)
-Completed Liberty, two in Tradition, two in Rationalism
-Order Ideology with 2 Tenents in Tier 1, two in T2 and 1 in T3.
-Playing peacefully, going for Science Victory.

It started pretty good. Plonked down my Great Scientist when I discovered Writing, got Great Library, and immediately after I went for Nat. College. It was going so well with the old science that I actually got Industrialization in 1270! (turn 110ish I think)

When I got my first spy, I placed him in Babylon, because I knew I would need him to defend my techs. However, Byzantium kept stealing tech after tech, and I eventually declared war on her. Even with my 4 Gatling Guns against her Swordsman, and all my other units, her capital alone destroyed my entire army, and I was forced to make peace. As the World Congress was founded, my presence was low and I only got the chance to propose something once. And that failed.

People kept stealing techs from me, and propping their tech up on me. At one point, even with my amazing science, someone overtook me on technologies!

Byzantium then declared war on me with her Riflemen and Artillery (I was pissed off to see that she had Artillery before I did). I smashed her army and we made peace.

Anyway, I got really bored in the end of being ed over with everything. Science is supposed to be Babylon's main thing, and I just don't understand why I'm doing so badly!

Can I get people to point out what they think I've done wrong in this playthrough, or what they would do better? I really want to beat the game on King for the second time. Any general tips for doing this better?

Thanks,
-Lewis

Click to expand...

Recently got my first win on deity as Babylon using this strategy.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=503647

Learning to leave the early wonders alone will benefit you in the long run. Oracle is always a nice consolation once you are up and running.(In terms of numbers I always look to have at least 350 BPT by turn 180 and at least 1000 BPT by turn 280. On King I'm not sure how effective research agreements are but on deity they are essential. Babylon should waltz to SV on king level.

Do not try and build any wonder in the Ancient Era (unless you get marble with Egypt on a hill city or something). The opportunity cost for those projects are too high - spend the early game getting your population fast to 4, then build three settlers right away, plonking them in good spots (switch all tiles to production, your city can't starve). On King difficulty placing cities near AI capitals is relatively safe, but Emperor+ you probably will get warred.

To win any peaceful victory you need high population. Doesn't matter which one you pursue, high pop = high production, high specialists, high great people = win. For this reason attempt to rush wonders like Hanging Gardens/Petra if you have good production in your capital. Never build trade posts in your capital, spam farms instead on every tile without resource or hill. You need the food. The AI is bad at prioritization of research. Beeline the science techs - Writing, Education, Scientific Theory, Plastics.

Always go 4 city tradition. Trad. opener, Landed Elite, Monarchy, Liberty opener, then finish off tradition or get some of the free from liberty (if you are in a good spot for a culture pantheon). In general only take policies from tradition, liberty, and rationalism, all the others are considered crap by most deity players.

For wonder focus, once your capital has a few key buildings like monument, granary, and library, try and go for power growth wonders like Hanging Gardens/Petra/Notre Dame (getting this one means you have no need for happiness buildings in any city). Some games it's possible to get Temple of Artemis if the AI randoms many warlike civs.

Once you get Universities immediately occupy the specialist slots in every city. Do the save for every other science building. Try and save up gold right before hitting science techs so you can instabuy science buildings in every city. It is not necessary to build mountain cities for observatory for science victories. The lost food counteracts the 50% science bonus (specialist slots are key, remember). However if you're playing Inca you should try to settle near mountains for the terrace farm bonuses.

Getting a tech lead as Babylon on King is generally quite trivial if you spend the first 150 turns or so power-growing your cities, spamming farms, and working specialist slots.

To protect your techs constabulary and police station in your capital are musts. It sounds like you really got screwed over by spy RNG in your game; something like that doesn't happen often.

Don't build large armies on King, only a few civs (Zulu, Japan, Huns, Carthage (lol), will betray you even through friendships and trade deals).

Sell your iron/horses early game for GPT (1 GPT for one iron/horse). Sell excess luxes if you can't 1 for 1 trade them. Spend excess gold on production buildings first, then food buildings.

To summarize: Stay first in population, work those specialists, rush science techs.

Finally, though Babylon is quite strong to win science, another power peace civ (Inca, Poland, Korea, Maya, maybe Ethiopia) might fit your playstyle better.