SGOTM 13 - One Short Straw

... but for only LC to look at.

I think that we have to trust that no one will mistakenly advance the game. I don't need to open the save myself, but I think anyone on the team should be able to view it if they so desire. I agree that there is risk, even in you playing with the save and mis-clicking. But in order to contribute, every team member should be able to review the saves if they want to do so, right?
 
Okay, I believe that I was wrong in thinking that it was a Grassland Hills square to the south, but I am as positive as I can possibly be that it is a flat Grassland square.

The following screenshots illustrate:
Screenshot 1 = The Real Game, centred on the Work Boat for easier comparison
Screenshot 2 = (flat) Grassland
Screenshot 3 = Grassland Hills
Screenshot 4 = Coast

Spoiler :









Note that it was easy for me to compare the screenshots as I could Alt + Tab between Microsoft Paint windows. For you to do it, you'd need to download the images, then use an image-viewing program that lets you open screenshots in multiple windows but positioned at the same position on the screen, then Alt + Tab between them... or else just visually compare them... or else just trust me. ;)
 
The Duck's powere was 19 on T60. That's pop6, most likely. That tells me they didn't poprush the exploring wb like we did. Their reserach is two turns ahead of ours (Pottery on T53), so they'll settle two turns ahead of us. We went for more exploration, they gambled. We'll see which pays off.
 
I think that we have to trust that no one will mistakenly advance the game. I don't need to open the save myself, but I think anyone on the team should be able to view it if they so desire. I agree that there is risk, even in you playing with the save and mis-clicking. But in order to contribute, every team member should be able to review the saves if they want to do so, right?
As I said before, I have no trouble with someone wanting to look at a saved game, but I do not want to be playing forwards at the same time. Since only LC made the request and since we were not at a scheduled "pause play" timing, I think that my request for others not to load the saved game makes sense.


If someone wants to, they can request to see the game, at which point I will just stop playing and will let them know that I have stopped and that it is okay for them to look at the saved game. But, I think that we're currently at a point where we can move forwards, which means that I don't want anyone else opening the saved game at the same time. Is that fair?
 
Alright, I am going to proceed as follows:
1. Send WB Explorer #3 east
2. End the current Turn
3. Move WB Explorer #1 in the south 2 squares and WB Explorer #2 in the north 1S, then upload a screenshot

The plan will then be for WB Explorer #2 to move SE to reveal the 1 remaining hidden square on the eastern side of the island. On the following turn, he will move back NW then SW.

While I'm doing that, anyone who wants to say "forget that 1 hidden square" on the eastern side of the island will have a bit of time to do so.
 
We are on Turn 66, 2350 BC, for anyone who is counting:

Last turn, we sent WB Explorer #3 to the east.

This turn, each of WB Explorers #1 and 2 have moved 1 out of 2 movement points.

WB Explorer #2, in the north, has his next steps laid out ("e" then "f" then "g") and unless someone strongly objects spending 2 turns just to reveal 1 hidden square in the "inner ring," then I don't see much reason to discuss it.

WB Explorer #1, in the south, has uncovered another island, along with a Dye Resource. According to our plan, we're going to ignore this island until later.

For anyone who wants to explore the Dye island now, I do not think that we really have time to scout it now. We could later feasibly scout that island with a Work Boat that wants to head to the west, after we have figured out where we're going to settle City 2.


Spoiler :


 
As I said before, I have no trouble with someone wanting to look at a saved game, but I do not want to be playing forwards at the same time. Since only LC made the request and since we were not at a scheduled "pause play" timing, I think that my request for others not to load the saved game makes sense.


If someone wants to, they can request to see the game, at which point I will just stop playing and will let them know that I have stopped and that it is okay for them to look at the saved game. But, I think that we're currently at a point where we can move forwards, which means that I don't want anyone else opening the saved game at the same time. Is that fair?

Based on your comment, there seems to be a clear distinction for you between a) a save when someone is in the middle of a turnset and b) the end of a turnset or a pre-planned stopping point. In my mind, I don't see this distinction. In both cases, plans can be messed up. In SGOTM-12, I had a PPP all ready to go after a few days of discussion when someone "made a mistake" by ending the turn which changed our plans. I think we have to trust that no one will do that in any scenario. If someone makes a mistake and advances the turn or moves a unit, we live with the consequences. But we should all have the freedom to review/open any save that's posted either in our thread or as an official uploaded game file. Trust us, Dhoomstriker, but keep the "I told you so!" to yourself should the opportunity arise... ;)
 
Trust us, Dhoomstriker
But that's the thing... I do trust anyone to look at the saved game and "potentially mess up the PPP." As the currently-UP player, I actually have an even greater chance of messing up the PPP.

I don't mind if the game gets "messed up." Plans will always undergo a certain amount of change, no matter how well you plan ahead.


However, I have been painstakingly taking screenshots with the explicit purpose of us not having any valid reason to load an "old" saved game.

I see no reason to limit anyone from looking at the current saved game, the game that matches our present-time progress. If they make some moves while looking at the most recent game, no worries--it's just a game and mistakes happen, and we can play forwards from whatever those moves are. As we saw with last SGOTM, sometimes these mistakes can help.


However, the key distinction that I am making is that: by loading an old saved game, if a move is made, then we have officially replayed part of the game. With a tiny bit of formalized process, we can completely remove this possibility from occuring.


All I was trying to say was that "the saved game that is currently on the server is about to become an old saved game." The reason being that I was about to play forwards.


Maybe I am being overly worrisome on this subject. Certainly, we have seen several discussions of late in the Maintenance Thread where some subjects got carried away too far--perhaps I am going down the same track here.

On the other hand, is it really so hard for someone who wants to look at the current saved game to ask the UP player to pause play and then get a chance to look at the most-up-to-date game? Isn't that saved game going to be the most relevant one to look at, anyway?
 
Pausing / un-pausing the game is entirely irrelevant. It's a simple rule: don't do anything irreversible. The BUFFY mod knows many, many things... :mwaha:

I agree that this is a bit of an extraordinary TS, in that we're pausing the game every turn. :crazyeye: We've done that at least once before - when bcool was capturing Orleans last game, he was uploading for myself and LC after almost every unit action. It's a bit silly maybe, but, for all the save opening done, we've only had 2-3 relatively minor mistakes over the last few games. I don't think it's that big of a deal. Just post a "Playing now".

Agree w WB moves.

Edit: xpost w Dhoom
 
Another City Location with 2 Food Resources!

Well, WB Explorer #2 in the north revealed more barren Coast.

In the south, though, WB Explorer #1 revealed another Clam, that, well, if you don't mind wasting a Marble by settling on it, would give us a 2-Clam City.


Spoiler :





Mitchum asked us to pause play here, to tentatively decide on City 2's location... do we have enough info yet? Has our need to pause here changed due to having WB Explorers 1 and 2 do more "inner ring" exploration?

Or do you feel ready to discuss where we might possibly settle City 2 and which Work Boat might possibly be used for netting, so that we can plan to get the relevant Work Boat to the relevant Seafood Resource on time?

Note that I haven't moved WB Explorer #3 this turn, just in case we decide that we want to use it for netting. It's not yet far enough east to reveal anything new even if it does move on this turn, anyway.

If you want to see the saved game, let me know and I'll upload it.
 
The BUFFY mod knows many, many things... :mwaha:
No kidding. Every time that I load up the test saved game (the test saved game from T44 or later), BtS + BUFFY crashes.

It didn't happen when we were doing our earlier testing, but somehow along the way, the test saved game started having these crashing problems... maybe it got slightly corrupted... perhaps BUFFY is to blame in that it is "detecting reloading" and thus causes the game to crash as a result, muahahahaha!

Anyway, in updating the test saved game, I'm going to try and play through the test game from the start, duplicating Mitchum's moves, and hopefully bypassing this crashing issue.

If I can't repro what he did, then I'll just play forwards from the latest test saved game, with the caveat that BtS may crash if you switch between the real game and the test game.
 
Yeah, I have seen the crashing even with exiting to the main menu first. I don't think that my replaying from turn 0 really had any effect on the issue, but it was at least very quick to reproduce your turnset thanks to a very-well-written PPP :goodjob:, so it didn't take me too long to do.

Maybe I've just played so many test games on our test map that BUFFY's memory on my computer is getting corrupted for the test saved game or something. It doesn't really matter.


Anyway, I have updated the test saved game.

What is very interesting is that Vicky knows Sailing, which means that we will learn Sailing one turn early.

In our test saved game, I was short on Flasks without having met her... I was behind by 9 Flasks in my test run, having 192/234 Flasks instead of the real game's 201/234 Flasks. It wasn't too hard to go back and get us the same number of Flasks and contact with Vicky in our test saved game. Even with the correct amount of Flasks (201/234) but without contact, we'd still take 3 turns in the test saved game to learn Sailing. With contact, though, plus the extra Flasks, we just barely save 1 turn on Sailing, getting it 2 turns from now.

Attached is the test saved game, with the correct number of Flasks and the correct "learn Sailing in 2 turns" situation.
 
do you feel ready to discuss where we might possibly settle City 2 and which Work Boat might possibly be used for netting, so that we can plan to get the relevant Work Boat to the relevant Seafood Resource on time?
No. There are too many possibilities right now. We need to know more about marble, in particular, but also the western possibility. We still don't know where to settle or what to research next.

I don't see any point in discussing this before T69 when the entire inner circle is defogged.
 
I agree that you should play a couple more turns Dhoom (for the reasons stated by LC). Good thing our exploration (rather Vicky's one) is already paying off! :lol:
 
There's Gold in them Hills! They are Plains Hills and not Desert Hills, too!

Questions:
1. So, WB Explorer #2 (the northern one) should probably explore around that Gold, right? Shall we go around the north of that island?

2. Work Boat Explorer #3 (the WB in the east) needs to move before we can end the turn. Shall we head around the eastern Desert island to the north or to the south?

Spoiler :


 
Alternatively, if we think that the Gold is too far to settle for City 2, WB Explorer #2 can first go SE, in order to save WB Explorer #1 a couple of turns.

Then, WB Explorer #1 can head directly east (1N of the Marble and then further east), with the intention of going towards a Seafood Resource nearer to the start, such as a Magical Fish or the Crab.


Actually, a third option is for WB Explorer #1 (the southern WB of the two eastern ones) can head NE then SE, so that it will be one square closer to the east, which definitely leaves WB Explorer #2 free to explore the Gold. Note that this last choice would leave one hidden square.


So... lots of choices.
 
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