Z-Eras -- Reality alternatives

Oh wow, thank you soooo much!

Sorry I've been away for so long, but I'm back in town and I should have some free time this weekend.

My pleasure buddy!
Don't be sorry... anything you *can* and *will* do for this tricky mod of ours should still be a gift to the community. Let's just hope we'll find some extra time (for it!) once the magical day of October 24th finally delivers us Beyond Earth!!

I wanted to get something to you before Friday, so here's... something.

The Detail screen is no longer completely useless; now it's merely almost so.

-- NEW FEATURES:
-- Right-clicking on most icons opens the Civilopedia to the appropriate entry
-- NEW ERA: Highly configurable with many possible combinations of manual and dynamic icon placement (see LUA\ErasCenterDefines.lua and DATA\2-EraPopups.xml)
-- DETAIL: The selected item displays an icon with readouts representing advisor suggestions (based on AI flavor data)
-- DETAIL: Now defaults to the current Popup's era

-- CHANGES:
-- Now using blankbutton.dds for empty textures instead of blank_texture.dds [Enhanced UI replaces blank_texture.dds, which was making it work for me]
-- DETAIL: Game Concepts and Policy Branches/Ideologies added

-- KNOWN BUGS:
-- DETAIL: When using IconAsset filename instead of IconHookup() with an atlas, the icon doesn't resize properly, and intermittently stops displaying; applies to Policies and Game Concepts
-- DETAIL: Wonky flavor calculations [currently shows debug text]

-- TO DO:
-- Add non-worker unit actions to data collection functions (e.g., missiles, paradrop)
-- Disable clicks to the topper acting as a shortcut to the Choose Era menu
-- NEW ERA: Disable (optionally) dynamically-generated antiquity site resource
-- NEW ERA: Allow Pedia lookups distinct from tooltip (for e.g., chop forest, clear marsh, and for the Era Focus)
-- NEW ERA: Dynamic unit actions
-- NEW ERA: Make a smaller mouseover glow image for resources
-- NEW ERA: Experiment more with dropshadows, and explore dynamically generated mouseover glows
-- DETAIL: Change era dropdown to colored radio buttons
-- DETAIL: Phase 2: Built-in mini-Pedia
-- DETAIL: Phase 3: Built-in mini-Tech Tree

-- QUESTIONS:
-- DETAIL: What to do about duplication of Policy Branches/Ideologies in Game Concepts
-- DETAIL: Should unit actions be included in the Detail screen?
-- DETAIL: I still don't know half of what's going on in the mockup...

Click to expand...

As mentioned above, note there's 2 systems to add the additional icons, one that uses database entries, and one that creates them dynamically (but only for resources at the moment). I know you would probably prefer to scale your icons by hand since the ingame resizing is kind of poor (plus my automatic dropshadows are pretty "meh"), so go into LUA\ErasCenterDefines.lua and set "DYNAMIC_RESOURCE_ICONS = false;" then go into DATA\2-EraPopups.xml and uncomment the resource entries. Getting everything to work to the extent it now does was quite a frustrating, but educational experience.

Then... quick comment before i actually D/L that file.

You had me worried a little, but i kept wishing for the best and that you hadn't given up on this whole project of ours.

Judging from your comments about the new version, MUCH superb work was performed and it will possibly take while before i can wrap this all up in answers or other "suggestions" for further tasks.

These two Snapshots! Wow.

1) Era Detail might still be limited but it's growing nevertheless. I really don't mind if it takes longer to finalize (if ever!) as long as you are still enjoying the challenge as i do. The MockUp is indeed hard to grasp without a global vision of the design burried deep into my freakish mind. Don't worry about it for now... cuz #2 right below.

2) This is the core reason why this project was even planned (many months ago!). But you've brought it up to speed and beyond any hopes i ever had to push it all the way to a "Professional" standard with cool features and assets. We share some credits in that result... you simply made it real and rational. Thus, many Thanks again.

In the meantime, let's just focus our energy and spare time to our precious copies of Beyond-Earth, shall we! Have fun. We'll return to the remaining Z-Eras+Center tasks once ready.

And - stay in touch buddy.

PS...

-- Right-clicking on most icons opens the Civilopedia to the appropriate entry

Click to expand...

Ya know what - maybe that *IS* all we'll ever need in a complete overhaul of the Eras-Detail component. I'll give VERY serious thoughts to an alternate design over the next few days ahead. It is a very high probability, AFAIC. We'll discuss later and i trust you'll offer some opinions on the actual solutions for a swift concept.

Okay... just tried re-Building Solution & Mod through a proper mimic of what your ModInfo indicated but nothing is activated within the game.

Nevertheless, i could observe a few details while i suspect such stuff was necessary for development reasons.

-- Some files were given "_" prefixes (IC-Frames***, Magic_64s, Strict.lua). Don't know if that could interfere with my build process.

-- Didn't include the old "ErasCenterCollectData.lua" as it wasn't in your folders either. Might this be causing an error too? Unless the new "ErasCenterDefines" took over the code task.

-- I also found a "Thumbs.db" file in your Art folder. Isn't it a Windows archival process that creates that thingy? It wouldn't be a proper mod asset, AFAIC.

-- I don't have the blankbutton.dds (that you mention above) file anywhere also. Shouldn't it be inserted in the Mod while being set to True?

-- I verified all Virtual True-False properties, everything has been matched properly.

Sooooo, can't test it until i (or you) can figure out what is actually wrong with the compiled result.
Sorry.

PS; Other Mod conflicts?? Currently using many... EUI(123final), InfoAddict, ReallyAdvancedSetup, Your SingleUnitGraphics, ExtraVictoryConditions, WonderRace, ConvertProductionIntoFood, Drop-C-Bomb, XP-From-Forts and a few of WHowards' UI mini-tools. I somehow doubt any of these could prevent Z-Eras from operating properly though.

PS2; Just consulted the LUA.log to detect anything worthy of a possible diagnostic...

1)
Also re-activated Strict.lua to perform a more accurate scan of some mysterious (to me!) undeclared global calls...
2)
These might help you out putting a reason to my runtime flaws.

You needn't rebuild the mod with ModBuddy; it is meant to drop into the mods folder; you merely have to add the art files. However, you can download my full project here, including the art files (many of which are unused, though I preceded these by an _underscore).

As for your troubleshooting, all those things are fine: As above, the files preceded by an _underscore are for temporary testing or reference; they don't do anything. ErasCenterCollectData.lua is now incorporated in EraCenterFunctions.lua. Thumbs.db isn't hurting anything, but it can be deleted. Blankbutton.dds comes with CiV packed in one of the FPKs; it will be part of the VFS at runtime and can be referenced in this mod without needing to be included separately.

Those Lua errors are odd. Try Building the project.

Alright i was finally able to cope with the "flaws". Dunno what happened exactly but i suspect my own "Project & Solution" files were somehow corrupted. They all went to the garbage.

I simply restarted everything from scratch with your copy of the Full-Project files linked above and could witness the new (and excellent) stuff. Tested all Eras extensively in search for tricky errors or design gimmicks... not even a glimpse of troubles on the horizon with that version. In fact, it enforces me to revise the (Detail) component from inspiring code hints you deployed ingeniously. I will work on a new MockUp and share it later on.

Quick comments;

-- Agreed that the In-Game re-sizing routine ruins the dynamically dispatched Resources (which didn't have their necessary Grey-Scale IC-Frames, btw... i think you're planning to only insert those in a future build). It's hard to decide but if i had a choice i would probably load them up directly from the custom files by following the slight edits you suggested earlier. As they are now, really too ugly to even bother.

-- The Eras Welcome By Narrator audio files keep repeating on almost every clicks done when switching Eras and/or Right-Click contexts. Presumably, something to fix later.

-- The direct access to Civilopedia default entries via Right-Click on many specific Icons in both the Popups and Detail is really an amazing decision. I'm as fascinated by the idea as i was when you provided the Pop-Orbs with ToolTip Lists. Besides, we should certainly exploit this superb feature of yours to devised MUCH simpler ZN+Center principles. I'm in a very cool dreamy state right now and i can already imagine the awesomeness of an entirely different framework. Ideally the Mini-Pedia and Mini-Tree will integrate nicely in such a revision of components. Heck i might even stick with your "Drop_Down_Items_List" methods except for the Eras mini-colored-dots switcher row. Again, i'll deal with that stuff in the coming days (or Beyond Earthly_fied) weeks.

A short conclusion; You really nailed IT as far as i can tell. All that remains is a very few fine-tuning of current functions while possibly adding some graphical improvements to the UI elements. The double choice Wheelies (with 4 colors linked to "Flavors" estimates no less by your magic code!) opens up a vast realm of cool possibilities.
We can even get rid of every darn tiny biddy Parsing Icons that were at the bottom... i feel they would no longer be that useful or necessary for rational micro-managing concerns.

To fill that newly available space... i can foresee a more accurate Medium-Tree with some matching double referencing Tech-Blocks (Eras colored with their regular Icons).

Huge progress!! I'm blessed by destiny to have you onboard this project. Miracles, do happen.
I'll return to your tiny Questions, by the end of the week or less. But mark the calendar, 24th is a very special day of priority!

PS; Bof -- there's nothing like the present, when we can!!

-- QUESTIONS:
-- DETAIL: What to do about duplication of Policy Branches/Ideologies in Game Concepts
-- DETAIL: Should unit actions be included in the Detail screen?
-- DETAIL: I still don't know half of what's going on in the mockup...

Click to expand...

1) Maybe threat them as entirely seperate instances. A pod gets the general Policies tooltip only while Detail offers both Branches & Ideology in (sic) more details.

2) They'd have to grab an extra selectable "Letter" in the alphabet... but since the CivPedia does have entries for those too. Would make sense to throw them in.

3) What mockup. Innovation begins with pioneering and drastic decisions - right?

Thanks -- again.

I know i haven't been much here to pursue further development on our Z-Eras+Center mod, Nutty.

But -- like most people, we're quite immersed into Beyond-Earth new gameplay features.

In my case, it's more about another complex mod that i designed for XCom-Enemy Within with the fascinating Long-War addon mod. That thing is absorbing most of my free-time lately and for good reasons! Many new UI assets were designed for it and that took a lot of time to create.

Fear not - i will eventually return to our own CiV5 stuff. Although it may take a little while longer.

See ya - later!

Understood (and ditto). Good luck with your current endeavor, and let me know when you get inspired to return to this one.

Alright Nutty... here's a VERY early MockUp test for the Era-Detail screen second try. It generally exposes a few elements and an approximation of a hypothetical framework.

I think you'll be able to figure out the essentials just by looking at it but at the core of the current design i feel, the Pods principle makes a cool reappearance into the UI. A new Medium-sized tech-tree is also being considered for the bottom area.
Direct access to rapid Pedia articles (even if only with the "Infos" located on the right side) still remains as my favorite coding way to keep the whole process as optimal as can be. Your idea about that stuff fits very well within the concept anyway. We could even attempt a custom routine to define our own ways to display anything on a secondary popup simply through pulling whatever is necessary from the Pedia datasets. I simply liked how "compressed" the info developped on the earlier tight column method of MockUp #1.

The only remaining issue might be how to handle "lists" and/or drop-down selectors as you first tentatively integrated them.

Should your have any questions or comments please share your thoughts!

I greatly prefer the less crowded feel that dropdowns allow, but I get wanting to see the list at a glance... What do the yield icons do? What is the new readout in the middle? Are the pods now buttons to choose which items are shown in the list or dropdown?

Nutty said:

1) I greatly prefer the less crowded feel that dropdowns allow, but I get wanting to see the list at a glance... 2) What do the yield icons do? 3) What is the new readout in the middle? 4) Are the pods now buttons to choose which items are shown in the list or dropdown?

Click to expand...

1) As do i -- indirectly. But... there's something to be said about clarity or the obvious advantage of having a scrollable list such as what was employed in MockUp #1. If we want to keep the current framework and its general size intacts, a solution would be to simply drop similar lists (left & right) in the area where you currently show debug stuff. FLAVORDEBUG row could probably give the category titles (Units, Wonders, etc) while the available space below that could squeeze about 9 to 11 lines if the fonts size remain. I could lower the height of the medium tech-tree even further to gain two or three more lines. The Pods near the edges would be kept as Overlays though -- hiding partially what's underneath.
That still means a Pedia-Scrollbar style selection principle would be necessary.
Note that i kept "Himeji Castle" & "Printing Press" from the snapshot as their corresponding active images will have to be somehow referenced. These words would possibly move further up to the empty corners instead of being part of a "Drop-Down" list -- as a result.

All of this -- in theory. Sure, a drop-down system could STILL be just as effective (if not more) at the expense of overlaying the Pods below when "opened" up for swift selection and auto-transfering to their host circular gimmicks on each sides. But that leaves the area empty again - for something else to be determined later. Although, i would need to enhance their "graphical" rendering to better integrate the Detail concept. It's just that such boxes with a tiny Angle-Corner somehow feel out-of-whack in the generic Popup style.

Sooooo -- let's flip a coin. And... you win! Do your best, please. While i would recommend putting the drop-down "sections" slightly underneath the FLAVOR DEBUG row. In fact, that area could even be visually "tied" with the central pods -- as a feature!

2) Parsers. Mostly useful when the focus has been changed to *ALL* Eras (accessible from the Popup-Header Magic symbol, btw) and categories at once. For example... instruct the code to seek out what provides Science and create a Drop-down or List accordingly. Which leads me to the new (8) Pods section plus a button "Referrer" element both left and right... as will be explained (at least partially) in #4 below.

3) This is the exact same Tech Slot_Pad (still related to the current focus) that was once on MockUp #1. Pulled right off the tech-tree with Tech ID and their usual rows of unlockable items. Colored by Eras. And so on.

4) These Pods simply mimic what is already used and shown on the Eras Popup. Numbers but no need for tooltips since other lists (( Ahem' DROP_DOWNS )) would open up "automatically" if we hover or click on the orbs. So, no more tiny buttons with single Letters to the side getting check marks (I'd still want my precious Eras switcher method though as indicated by what i inserted over the old drop-down)... less confusion, better information, optimal comprehension by visitors of the device. Except for the fact that an *ALL-Eras* series would need to be re-estimated and deployed in the same locations. 82 Techs, 31 Wonders, etc.

The small empty area underneath the In-Focus-Tech and above the Medium Tree could still receive a few things like parsers or something like Info, Data, Unit Flags, Values, Icons, etc. Refer to Mockup #1 right side panels for hints.

I've also given the Meters some breathing room in their respective corners for a good reason; i'd like to display the actual numerical (formatted as integer) values (that your code function calculates) on and about each section-corners. Military_Red, Economic_Yellow, Foreign_Magenta and Science_Blue... possibly on a small button of their own. That would put everything in context more clearly as well.

OK, I'll try to find some time to play with these ideas, though I thought the mini pedia entries were supposed to go where the debug area is now...

Oh -- but they might very well end up overthere too!

The area seems big enough to receive two panels which may just host simultaneous details related to what is currently in focus on our double Wheel-Meters. Considering that the two drop-down devices (expected to replace the current "Flavor-Debug" lines) would simply collapse and auto-hide once a selection has been made. Even the current 64's buttons on each sides of the Pods row could be moved around to prevent them from hiding content of rectangular shapes. The essential objective being that we wouldn't want to make that screen too "crowded" with tight framework elements all at once.

Try reserving some relative space in these sections ready to deploy a test-phase "mini-pedias" set of two. And, don't worry if the medium-tree seems to take up some of that space as well since it can also be thinned a bit further to make room. Barring the possibility of enlarging some height of the whole pop-up screen to compensate by transfering the current Close Button function (Info-Addict uses a simple X icon with tooltip, IIRC) on the footer if need be.

I just copy/pasted the old framework Panel to evaluate how it looks and it DID squeeze in quite nicely as long as the previous way of "self-closing" tiny boxes is designed to operate in such a manner. See below...
Heck, the "Drop-Down list boxes" might be designed similarly to the Cost+Type field shown with Rounded-Corners on that snapshot!
Have fun!

Follow up with a quick snapshot of another MockUp describing the latest adjusments...
** Self-explanatory, i think. Any questions, just fire away!

Sooooo.... Nutty, How are things goin' on some of the coding stuff? Any progress to report?!

((Have yourself nice Holidays, btw))

Honestly, I haven't looked at it at all. I've had little time to dedicate to modding, and what little I've used was messing with some unit Lua for the BE aliens for Lord Shadow's Alien Strains mod (another learning experience certainly, though not translatable to this effort).

Hope your holidays have been good, as well!

Oh well, Holidays were good enough... and i was also deep into XCom-EW with LongWar modding too.
It sure would be "nice" to somehow find a way to finish that ZN-Eras+Center stuff -- eventually. But as they say - we just need the flame to burn back into it at least.

TBH, i haven't even have the time to play a full BE game soooo, you can imagine how CiV5 modding projects tend to have a low priority in my personal schedule lately.

If you ever decide to return to it all... i'll be here if you need any further help or details.

Nutty, i've been wondering if it wouldn't be better to simply release what we currently have --as is-- since development has stopped. Opinion? Unless you'd want to still work on what remains.