Brainstorming Thread - One-Trick-Pony Techs

<Nexus> · Sep 21, 2014

Afforess said:
Considering that Great Spies are easily the least useful type of great person, having a few more will hurt nothing, IMO.

But IMO also the hardest to get.

How about a new ability for the GSpy? Something like the GGenaral turning to GCommander? Turn it into a unit similar to the Top Secret Agent, only without the para-drop ability and with no national limit.

<Nexus> · Sep 21, 2014

This may be a bit wild idea, but how about giving a choice of a third trait?

Rezca · Sep 21, 2014

Sogroon said:
This may be a bit wild idea, but how about giving a choice of a third trait?

RI and C2C both have that option and I never play with it on. Actually, IIRC with RI it's mandatory (The third trait is a negative one though.)

Vokarya · Sep 21, 2014

45°38'N-13°47'E;13465112 said:
I'm ok too with all proposed changes except Stealth Submarine axing. In theory I agree it's not a perfect unit but I feel it fills the gap up to fusion sub and we need it for this reason

I forgot Stealth Sub also required Stealth tech as well. All we have to do is cut the Fuel Cells tech requirement and leave Stealth Sub at Stealth.

Vokarya · Sep 21, 2014

nionios said:
AFAIK, fuel cells are also being used in spaceships and space stations but i have no idea how we can display this in the gameplay.

I said that too, and the problem is that we are representing space mostly by the big projects (Apollo, Hubble, International Space Station) with Spaceport and Starport coming along in the Transhuman Era and representing interplanetary commerce. I don't think we can go into that much more detail on space just because of issues of scale (how does 1 hammer on the planetary scale translate to hammers on the city scale?). We also have a lot of aerospace techs in the Modern Era and those are more appropriate for space-related buildings and projects.

Vokarya · Sep 22, 2014

I am still convinced that the only way to salvage the Relativity-Quantum Physics techs are to fold them into one tech. I hate to get rid of a good name like Relativity, so I'm going to keep the Relativity name, move the reveal of Uranium over to it (for trick-counting purposes, I have chosen to count the reveal of a strategic resource as a major trick, the reveal of a health or happiness resource as a minor trick, and the enabling of any resource not count as a trick at all, since it's generally a side-effect of whatever else comes available at the same time; but for some resources, the improvement necessary to use the resource counts as a separate trick by itself), and then bring Fission back one column and have it require Relativity and Industrialism.

This will make Manhattan Project show up a little earlier than before, but you still need Aviation to build A-Bombs and anything beyond, so I don't think it will disrupt anything too badly.

Afforess · Sep 22, 2014

Random thought Vokarya, do we have a GPS wonder/project? The Global Positioning System only became possible due to the theory of relativity, but the construction was after his time. Could be a way to save the two techs.

Sogroon said:
This may be a bit wild idea, but how about giving a choice of a third trait?

Like what?

Sogroon said:
But IMO also the hardest to get.

How about a new ability for the GSpy? Something like the GGenaral turning to GCommander? Turn it into a unit similar to the Top Secret Agent, only without the para-drop ability and with no national limit.

Meh. That's doesn't make the great spy any more powerful, really.

<Nexus> · Sep 22, 2014

Afforess said:
Like what?

Sorry if I wasn't clear.
What I meant was this:
When you research Humanism, there comes a pop-up list traits (Agriculre, Deciever, Spiritual, etc.) and you could choose a third one. So for example Ramesses would become Industrious/Spiritual/Imperialistic for the second half of the game

As I said, it may be a wild idea. Just brainstorming :lol:

Meh. That's doesn't make the great spy any more powerful, really.

Turning it into a spy unit that has half of the available promotions with a base speed of 3, would be powerful IMO.
But what do you think would make it more powerful/useful?

Arakhor · Sep 22, 2014

I like Vokarya's ideas, including Sogroon's for Humanism. I would suggest though that captured animals only be hostile if they are in the wild. C2C is a litany of being attacked by wild ducks, monstrous toucans and the terrifying enraged platypus.

Vokarya · Sep 22, 2014

Afforess said:
Random thought Vokarya, do we have a GPS wonder/project? The Global Positioning System only became possible due to the theory of relativity, but the construction was after his time. Could be a way to save the two techs.

That won't work. Global Positioning System is currently a promotion for Missile units, of all things (I'm not sure that promotions are worthwhile for one-shot units, but that's what we currently have). The problem is that GPS comes at Communication Networks, which is a late Modern Era tech, and that's the earliest I would put anything GPS-related at. Relativity and Quantum Physics are late Industrial Era. I really don't want to use content from a later era to back up a tech; it feels definitely inelegant and a little unfair (the tech is promising something good, but then the reveal is you have to wait another era to actually get all the necessary techs) and on top of that, tech redundancies will likely kick in as well and render the first technology unnecessary. I'm adding Fission to the prerequisites for Nuclear Power and Advanced Rocketry to cover for the loss of Modern Physics, so anything beyond Adv Rock (including Satellites, Communication Networks, and from there most of the late Modern and Transhuman Eras) won't benefit.

Vokarya · Sep 22, 2014

Arakhor said:
I like Vokarya's ideas, including Sogroon's for Humanism. I would suggest though that captured animals only be hostile if they are in the wild. C2C is a litany of being attacked by wild ducks, monstrous toucans and the terrifying enraged platypus.

I'm going to keep the subdued animals to the large mammals - no birds, no reptiles, and nothing so small that it would require recalibrating the whole strength curve to accommodate. I think I only want about six new animals, all big mammals with resources already in-game. I don't want to add any new resources just for this.

Afforess · Sep 23, 2014

Vokarya said:
That won't work. Global Positioning System is currently a promotion for Missile units, of all things (I'm not sure that promotions are worthwhile for one-shot units, but that's what we currently have). The problem is that GPS comes at Communication Networks, which is a late Modern Era tech, and that's the earliest I would put anything GPS-related at. Relativity and Quantum Physics are late Industrial Era. I really don't want to use content from a later era to back up a tech; it feels definitely inelegant and a little unfair (the tech is promising something good, but then the reveal is you have to wait another era to actually get all the necessary techs) and on top of that, tech redundancies will likely kick in as well and render the first technology unnecessary. I'm adding Fission to the prerequisites for Nuclear Power and Advanced Rocketry to cover for the loss of Modern Physics, so anything beyond Adv Rock (including Satellites, Communication Networks, and from there most of the late Modern and Transhuman Eras) won't benefit.

I'd vote to scrap the GPS promotion. GPS is unrelated to communication networks. I bet we could come up with a much more original project idea for GPS.

45°38'N-13°47'E · Sep 23, 2014

Afforess said:
I'd vote to scrap the GPS promotion. GPS is unrelated to communication networks. I bet we could come up with a much more original project idea for GPS.

I agree with Afforess. Has anyone ever used GPS promotion? But I also agree with Vokarya about position in the tech tree. I'd say we leave things as they are about GPS until we come out with something good.

<Nexus> · Sep 23, 2014

45°38'N-13°47'E;13468342 said:
I agree with Afforess. Has anyone ever used GPS promotion? But I also agree with Vokarya about position in the tech tree. I'd say we leave things as they are about GPS until we come out with something good.

Honestly, I didn't even notice its existence

Afforess · Sep 23, 2014

Vokarya said:
That won't work. Global Positioning System is currently a promotion for Missile units, of all things (I'm not sure that promotions are worthwhile for one-shot units, but that's what we currently have). The problem is that GPS comes at Communication Networks, which is a late Modern Era tech, and that's the earliest I would put anything GPS-related at. Relativity and Quantum Physics are late Industrial Era. I really don't want to use content from a later era to back up a tech; it feels definitely inelegant and a little unfair (the tech is promising something good, but then the reveal is you have to wait another era to actually get all the necessary techs) and on top of that, tech redundancies will likely kick in as well and render the first technology unnecessary. I'm adding Fission to the prerequisites for Nuclear Power and Advanced Rocketry to cover for the loss of Modern Physics, so anything beyond Adv Rock (including Satellites, Communication Networks, and from there most of the late Modern and Transhuman Eras) won't benefit.

Ok...actually reading people's posts in-depth now. I noticed you are suggesting I suggested to "reuse" the GPS promotion. That is absurd. The GPS promotion should be removed from the mod altogether.

Instead we should be considering a GPS Project. We don't really have any other industrial-era projects and GPS certainly fits better into the project category than the world wonder category.

45°38'N-13°47'E · Sep 23, 2014

Afforess said:
Ok...actually reading people's posts in-depth now. I noticed you are suggesting I suggested to "reuse" the GPS promotion. That is absurd. The GPS promotion should be removed from the mod altogether.

Instead we should be considering a GPS Project. We don't really have any other industrial-era projects and GPS certainly fits better into the project category than the world wonder category.

Since GPS is based on satellites, wouldn't it be a bit too early? I see it more as a modern era project and hence Vokarya point about tech and project position in the tech tree still stands.

Vokarya · Sep 23, 2014

I don't think Missiles should get any kind of promotion given that they are consumed as soon as they make their first attack. That seems like a waste of effort for players to choose which promotion to give (even though there are only 4 choices for promotions).

But yes, what I was trying to say is that anything, whether it's a building, Wonder, or project, related to GPS is going to be late Modern Era, not Industrial. We need something pre-Manhattan Project to keep both Relativity and Quantum Physics viable as separate techs, and we need one for each tech. I like Relativity as a tech, and I'm going to keep that one by moving the Uranium reveal over to it (revealing a strategic resource is a major trick by my standards, so Uranium reveal + Einstein's Lab is two tricks). It's Quantum Physics that I would want to cut unless we can come up with enough content to make both of them stand alone.

45°38'N-13°47'E · Sep 23, 2014

What about a Solvay Conference project which grants a free tech and some science bonus? You can Google solvay conference if needed.

MechatronicJazz · Sep 23, 2014

What about adding in something related to x-ray, MRI, or nuclear medicine? I think they all rely somewhat on quantum physics. MRI and nuclear medicine were developed in the decades following the beginning of quantum physics and, while the discovery of x-rays pre-date relativity, the refinement of the technology into something safe and reliable for use in medicine relied in part on an understanding of how x-rays are generated.

You could add a building (or buildings) related to this stuff that gives a health or science boost. Not sure how that would fit into the game balance. Thoughts?

Arakhor · Sep 23, 2014

Since Afforess made the GS Academy one per nation, maybe the Solvay Conference could boost the effect of the Academy.

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