Vokarya's Workshop: Buildings

I'd prefer the fish upgrade path instead of getting rid of a building. I'm also ok with Vokarya's suggestion on carpenter. I don't like very much the idea of a flat hammers bonus for carpenter. I frankly don't remember, is wheelwright part of early buildings? If so, then probably carpenter should also.
 
Carpenter:
I don't really want to push the bonus up too much
Click to expand...
I don't think a change from 10% to 20% or 25% would be too much.
While I understand the bonus for wheelwright, it's not a big bonus IMO, since wheelwrigh is a cheap building.
How about make it similar to the stone workers hut? Requires forest or jungle in city vicinity and raise the bonus.


Prime timber:
Hmm... I don't know about it. Such a resource raises questions:
Should appear only Forest, isn't it? But what if the forest is chopped?
 
Sogroon said:
<snip>

Prime timber:
Hmm... I don't know about it. Such a resource raises questions:
Should appear only Forest, isn't it? But what if the forest is chopped?
Click to expand...

No it also appears in Jungle, or at least in C2C it does.

As for chopping the plot it's on, try it and see what happens.

Prime Timber is designed to unlock certain buildings and give another hammer and gold to the tile than a regular forest.

Why are you questioning the use of Prime Timber and other resources? Do you have something better? Do you want AND to be more like vanilla BtS? Just curious about why all these questions over things that have been in place for awhile.

JosEPh
 
JosEPh_II said:
No it also appears in Jungle, or at least in C2C it does.

As for chopping the plot it's on, try it and see what happens.

Prime Timber is designed to unlock certain buildings and give another hammer and gold to the tile than a regular forest.

Why are you questioning the use of Prime Timber and other resources? Do you have something better? Do you want AND to be more like vanilla BtS? Just curious about why all these questions over things that have been in place for awhile.

JosEPh
Click to expand...

Excuse me? What wrong did I say? :confused:

I am not against prime timber (or any other new resources). Not indeed! I would love to see new resources, if it works well.
I just don't know how it does/should work.
Sorry if any of my post didn't seem constructive. :( I will try to improve. :(
 
Sogroon said:
Excuse me? What wrong did I say? :confused:

I am not against prime timber (or any other new resources). Not indeed! I would love to see new resources, if it works well.
I just don't know how it does/should work.
Sorry if any of my post didn't seem constructive. :( I will try to improve. :(
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure a resource won't disappear just because you chop the forest it is in. The resource remains, the forest/jungle disappears.

The way I usually see it working (Realism Invictus/C2C/etc) is it gives some additonal production or commerce on a tile when a lumber camp or similar is placed there, and often speeds up the production of units like Triremes and other wooden ships. I think a few buildings also benefit from it. If the forest goes poof - like from cutting it down or some event or if it gets nuked - the resource stays behind "because gameplay reasons" ;)


There's plenty of resources I'd love to see that pop up in other mods (Pie's Ancient Europe had a fun amount of metals and ores, History Rewritten and C2C have a few that I like as well), but that just brings up 'How many do we actually want? Do we really *need* these? What would they do?'
Several I'd imagine would just end up being "copies" of each other, filling the same role but with different spawning requirements (i.e. Oricalcum in Pie's if I recall only showed up on hills and near mountains, usually never in tropical areas) and different visual looks. Besides which I don't think there's much need for things like Platinum, Resin, Fossils, and so on in AND. Maybe down the road in a 'More Resources' modmod, but that would involve updating all the mapscripts and overall be a lot of work for something otherwise very minor.
 
Right now, Prime Timber in AND is just an event (+1 production from a forest plot), not a resource. I'm not really in favor of new resources, though, and I think "Prime Timber" sounds clunky.

I don't want to make Carpenter an Early Building. What if I also give it 50% faster production of Shipyard? I don't want to go with a straight hammer bonus because it does affect units as well. (On another note, I think the hammer bonuses on Stoneworker's Hut are pretty high and can turn a starting city into a powerhouse.)

I think Seafaring is the best tech for Fisherman's Hut. That way it shows up towards the middle/end of the Ancient Era.
 
Sogroon said:
Excuse me? What wrong did I say? :confused:

I am not against prime timber (or any other new resources). Not indeed! I would love to see new resources, if it works well.
I just don't know how it does/should work.
Sorry if any of my post didn't seem constructive. :( I will try to improve. :(
Click to expand...

Not that your post was bad or wrong I was just curious as to why it seemed, to me anyway, that you wanted to change it or remove it. And I was thinking more about C2C's use than AND's for Prime. So that's my fault for early morning unclear thinking before coffee. Sorry. :blush: My bad for coming across brusquely. I'm on allergy meds and I couldn't sleep this morning.

I know Vokayra is not wanting to add more resources to AND. But there a several from C2C that I would like. Prime Timber is one because it would give the Jungle tile as well as a Forest tile another resource opportunity in the mod.

JosEPh
 
JosEPh_II said:
I know Vokayra is not wanting to add more resources to AND. But there a several from C2C that I would like. Prime Timber is one because it would give the Jungle tile as well as a Forest tile another resource opportunity in the mod.

JosEPh
Click to expand...

I'd like to see more resources eventually though, possibly after the units/buildings/civics have all been settled down and balanced.

Prime Timber could be renamed I guess, but to what I dunno.
 
JosEPh_II said:
Not that your post was bad or wrong I was just curious as to why it seemed, to me anyway, that you wanted to change it or remove it. And I was thinking more about C2C's use than AND's for Prime. So that's my fault for early morning unclear thinking before coffee. Sorry. :blush: My bad for coming across brusquely. I'm on allergy meds and I couldn't sleep this morning.

I know Vokayra is not wanting to add more resources to AND. But there a several from C2C that I would like. Prime Timber is one because it would give the Jungle tile as well as a Forest tile another resource opportunity in the mod.

JosEPh
Click to expand...


Ohh, I see. I am sorry about your allergy. Wish you get better soon. Does it take short or long periods in the year?


I didn't want to change/remove prime timber, since it's not in the mod :crazyeye:

Otherwise I would like to have prime timber in the mod, but I find it very difficult to include it properly:
I don't think it should be pressent on a tile without forest/jungle, witch happens when chopping. But if the resource would be removed also with the chopping, it would be wasted :dunno:
So for the moment I think it's the best as it is: an event.
IMHO :)


A few more ideas on Carpenter:
  • little bonus for wooden ship production
  • +1 :c5gold: per tile with forest/jungle
 
Vokarya said:
Right now, Prime Timber in AND is just an event (+1 production from a forest plot), not a resource. I'm not really in favor of new resources, though, and I think "Prime Timber" sounds clunky.

I don't want to make Carpenter an Early Building. What if I also give it 50% faster production of Shipyard? I don't want to go with a straight hammer bonus because it does affect units as well. (On another note, I think the hammer bonuses on Stoneworker's Hut are pretty high and can turn a starting city into a powerhouse.)

I think Seafaring is the best tech for Fisherman's Hut. That way it shows up towards the middle/end of the Ancient Era.
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me, probably you're right about Stoneworker's hut too, it should be scaled down a bit.
 
Ah, I just had an idea about the Carpenter building.

What if it gave a +% to the training speed of Log Rams, Battering Rams, and Siege Rams? I was thinking that while training some earlier and wondering why there wasn't anything that boosted their speed (Like Lead speeds up early gunpowder units and Obsidian speeds up Javelins, and in other mods Prime Timber speeds up some wood-based units like Triremes)


Would that be a possibility?
 
Rezca said:
Ah, I just had an idea about the Carpenter building.

What if it gave a +% to the training speed of Log Rams, Battering Rams, and Siege Rams? I was thinking that while training some earlier and wondering why there wasn't anything that boosted their speed (Like Lead speeds up early gunpowder units and Obsidian speeds up Javelins, and in other mods Prime Timber speeds up some wood-based units like Triremes)


Would that be a possibility?
Click to expand...

That's also a good idea, IMHO. Maybe Catapult and Trebuchet too?
 
Catapult and Trebuchet is covered by Siege Crafting(or whatever it is) Workshop. 100% production rate for siege units would be OP.
 
Siege Weapons Workshop gives a bonus to producing Siege Rams as well as Catapults and Trebuchets. I figured since Siege Ram came along at the same time that Catapult and Siege Weapons Workshop do, the Siege Ram should get the same bonus.

I don't really want to give Carpenter a bonus to unit production as well as building production. I'm trying to avoid proliferating lots of small bonuses of too many different types. I'd like to try out the Carpenter with just the Wheelwright/Shipyard bonus and see how that works.
 
oldnooob said:
Speaking of siege rams, I notice they are set as defend only. What are they supposed to defend against?
Click to expand...

Everithing attacking :)
It can "bombard" cities IIRC.
 
I know that siege rams are for reducing city defenses and I get that, but impo I believe they should have a small attack value as well. It took quite a few men to man one and after the gates were crashed they dropped the ram and joined in the attack.

JosEPh
 
JosEPh_II said:
I know that siege rams are for reducing city defenses and I get that, but impo I believe they should have a small attack value as well. It took quite a few men to man one and after the gates were crashed they dropped the ram and joined in the attack.

JosEPh
Click to expand...

Well, that makes sence, altough not necessary IMHO. Ram-line have the advantage above catapult-line, that they have a much higher city bombardment value.
 
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