GOTM 165 Spoiler

In the early part of the game expansion was very slow because of lack of any specials or even a forest to help speed up the production of the first settler. Huts were counter productive initially (two off path techs) but afterwards hut luck was decent.

Date Notes

-4000 Washington founded. With restarts off, conquest is too tempting to ignore.
-3950 -> Alphabet. Some of the rivals are Celts, Japanese, Egyptian, and English.
-3750 Warrior produced. Settler started.
-3450 Alphabet -> Code of Laws. Pottery from hut. Resource seed is 13
-3250 Warrior Code from hut.
-3100 None horseman from hut.
-3050 Writing from hut.

Status at -3000
Population: 0.01M; Cities: 1; Techs: 4; Government: Despotism
Gold: 0; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 1 settler, 1 warrior, 1 None horseman
Goals: Expansion
Celt: no contact
Japanese: no contact
German: no contact
Egyptian: no contact
English: no contact
purple: no contact

-2850 New York founded with access to whale.
-2350 None archer from hut.
-2050 Code of Laws -> Bronze. Boston founded.
-2000 Bronze from hut.

Status at -2000
Population: 0.05M; Cities: 3; Techs: 6; Government: Despotism
Gold: 6; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 1 settler, 1 warrior, 1 None Archer, 1 None horseman
Goals: Expansion, Monarchy
Celt: no contact
Japanese: no contact
German: no contact
Egyptian: no contact
English: no contact
purple: no contact

-1950 -> Burial. None archer from hut.
-1900 Philadelphia founded.
-1800 Advanced tribe founds Atlanta.
-1600 100g from hut.
-1350 Chicago founded.
-1300 Burial -> Monarchy.
-1200 San Francisco founded.
-1000 Buffalo and St. Louis founded.

Status at -1000
Population: 0.09M; Cities: 9; Techs: 7; Government: Despotism
Gold: 1; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 1 settler, 1 warrior, 2 None Archers, 1 None horseman, 2 diplomats
Goals: Expansion, Monarchy, Trade, mapmaking
Celt: no contact
Japanese: no contact
German: no contact
Egyptian: no contact
English: no contact
purple: no contact

-0825 Monarchy -> Currency. Monarchy established. T3L0S7.
-0750 Detroit founded.
-0675 New Orleans founded.
-0600 Currency -> Trade.
-0500 Baltimore founded.

Status at -500
Population: 0.24M; Cities: 12; Techs: 9; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 10; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 9 settler, 1 warrior, 2 None Archers, 1 None horseman, 2 diplomats
Goals: Expansion, Trade, mapmaking, Marco
Celt: no contact
Japanese: no contact
German: no contact
Egyptian: no contact
English: no contact
Sioux: no contact

-0450 Trade -> Mapmaking. Denver founded.
-0300 Cincinnati founded.
-0275 Mapmaking -> Mysticism. T7L0S3. Dallas founded.
-0250 Egyptian civilization destroyed by Japanese. First Trireme built.
-0200 Marco built.
Writing, Trade -> Celt (5) -> Iron Working, Wheel, peace, maps
Writing -> German (2) -> Construction, peace, maps
Writing, Construction -> English (1) -> Mysticism, peace, maps
Bronze, Construction, Monarchy -> Japanese (3) -> peace, maps
Writing, Construction -> Sioux (4) -> peace (cut off)
-0175 -> Seafaring. Iron Working, Trade -> Sioux (4) -> Math, maps. Los Angeles founded.
-0100 Kansas City founded. Advanced tribe founds Kerman; the first offshore city on island 10.
-0075 Richmond and Las Vegas founded.
-0050 Zahedan founded on island 14.
-0025 Dashtestan founded on island 23.
+0001 Trade -> German -> Seafaring, maps.

Status at +1
Population: 0.47M; Cities: 22; Techs: 17; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 4; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders: Marco
Units: 17 settler, 1 warrior, 2 None Archers, 1 None horseman, 4 Triremes, 2 diplomats
Footprint: 19 cities in home (1-2 more planned), one in each of 10, 14, 23.
Goals: Expansion, Barracks (4 being built), Hanging Gardens, Philosophy, conquest of English
Celt: 8 cities, 13 techs
Japanese: 8 cities, 12 techs
German: 5 cities, 12 techs; war with Sioux
Egyptian: Destroyed by Japanese
English: 5 cities, 11 techs
Sioux: 4 cities, 13 techs; war with Germans

Since I skipped GOTM 164, I was able to start this one fairly soon after it was announced.
I decided pretty early that I would be going for a full-sized spaceship. I also was pretty sure I would be going for a high score, not a Early Landing.
I moved a bit before founding Washington, including an early road for trade arrows. Getting access to the whale helped a lot over starting at the initial point.
There are 9 huts on the US mainland (continent 15). First hut of weeds was pretty annoying, but the second hut was an advanced tribe, so that made up for it a little, Nomads from huts 7 and 8 was helpful in getting cities spread out fairly early. I had one off-path tech from a hut, but it came at a good time (since you need one off-path on the way to Monarchy).
MPE in -550 came at a very good time. I was able to trade tech 5 turns in a row and traded so Republic was completed on the OEDO turn after the last trade.

-4000 Move to Shield Grass
-3950 build Road
-3900 Road complete
-3850 Move to 107,67
-3800 Washington founded
-3750 start Alphabet
-3550 Warrior, Whale at 106,64 (seed is 13,29,45 or 61)
-3400 Alphabet -> Code of Laws (22)
-3350 Hut at 98,64 found (seed is 13 or 45)
-3300 Hut -> Weeds...what a disappointment
-3250 Fish at 107,75, seed is 13
-3150 Hut -> Advanced Tribe - New York (105,75)
-3100 Hut -> Warrior Code (33)
-3000 Hut -> Legion

stats at -3000:
pop.: .04; cities: 2; techs: 2, gov: Despotism, gold: 22; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 2 Warrior, 1 Legion
wonders: None

Celts: No Contact
Japanese : No Contact
Germans: No Contact
Egyptians: No Contact
English: No Contact
Sioux: No Contact

-2950 Hut -> 50
-2850 RB New York 9sh(22)
-2800 Washington Settler
-2750 CoL -> Ceremonial Burial (44), Hut -> Legion (NON)
-2450 Boston Founded (101,67), Hut -> Nomads
-2400 Philadelphia founded by nomads (92,80), RB New York 6sh(13)
-2250 CB -> Monarchy (65)
-2200 Washington Settlers, RB Philadelphia 6sh (13)
-2150 New York Settlers

stats at -2000:
pop.: .08; cities: 4; techs: 4, gov: Despotism, gold: 78; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 2 Settlers, 3 Warrior, 2 Legion
wonders: None

Celts: No Contact
Japanese : No Contact
Germans: No Contact
Egyptians: No Contact
English: No Contact
Sioux: No Contact

-1900 Atlanta founded (97,65)
-1750 Chicago founded (100,78)
-1650 Monarchy -> Bronze Working (78), REVOLUTION, Monarchy established, Hut -> Nomads
-1600 Washington Settlers
-1550 San Francisco founded by nomads (75,73), Hut -> Horse
-1450 Philadelphia Settler, Boston Settlers
-1400 New York Settlers
-1250 Bronze Working -> Currency (105)
-1200 RB Philadelphia 10sh
-1150 RB San Francisco 9sh, New York 1sh, Buffalo founded (92,62)
-1050 Atlanta Settlers, Washington Settlers, St. Louis founded (99,73)
-1000 RB Buffalo 1sh

stats at -1000:
pop.: .23; cities: 9; techs: 6, gov: Monarchy, gold: 157; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 4 Settlers, 3 Warriors, 2 Legion
wonders: None

Celts: No Contact
Japanese : No Contact
Germans: No Contact
Egyptians: No Contact
English: No Contact
Sioux: No Contact

-975 San Francisco settlers, Chicao Settlers, Currency -> Trade (120), Philadelphia Settlers, Detroit founded (96,76)
-850 Boston Settlers, New York Settlers
-825 Trade -> Map Making (135)
-800 New Orleans founded (89,57)
-750 Buffalo Food, Philadelphia Food
-725 Washington Food
-700 Baltimore founded
-675 English start HG, Egyptians start Pyramids, Map Making -> Mysticism (150), San Francisco Settlers, Chicago Food
-650 Atlanta Food
-575 Germans start Pyramids, Detroit Settlers, Philadelphia Food, Washington Food, 4 vans to Washington
-550 Washington builds MPE
Celts: 209 gold, 4 cities, 8 Tech (HBR, IW, Mason, Wheel)
Japanese: 221 Gold, 3 cities, 7 Tech (HBR, Myst)
Germans: 242 Gold, 4 cities, 9 Tech (Lit, Mason, Myst, Write)
Egyptians: 204 Gold, 3 cities, 9 Tech (Mason, Myst, Pot)
English: 254 Gold, 4 cities, 7 Tech (IW, Pot)
Sioux: 249 Gold, 4 cities, 8 Tech (HBR, IW, Mason)
Contact Celts: (2), Give MM, Peace, exchange maps, Give Trade for Alliance
Contact Japanese: (1), Give MM, Peace, Trade Monarchy -> Mysticism, Give Trade and CoL, exchange maps
Contact Germans: (3), Peace, Give Monarchy and MM, exchange maps
Contact Egyptians: (0), Give Monarchy and MM, exchange maps
Contact English: (4), Give MM, exchange maps
Contact Sioux: (5), Give MM, Peace, Give Trade and Monarchy, exchange maps
-525 start Writing (165), New York Food, Trade with Germans Trade -> Writing (180)
-500 start Pottery, New Orleans Settlers, St. Louis Food, Trade with English Writing -> Pottery (208)

stats at -500:
pop.: .50; cities: 12; techs: 12, gov: Monarchy, gold: 154; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 9 Settlers, 9 Warriors, 1 Legion, 1 Trireme, 5 Caravans
wonders: MPE


Celts: 213 gold, 4 cities, 10 Tech (HBR, IW, Mason, Wheel), Allied
Japanese: 235 Gold, 3 cities, 11 Tech (HBR)
Germans: 241 Gold, 5 cities, 12 Tech (Lit, Mason)
Egyptians: 204 Gold, 3 cities, 11 Tech (Mason)
English: 258 Gold, 4 cities, 9 Tech (IW)
Sioux: 258 Gold, 4 cities, 11 Tech (HBR, IW, Mason)

-475 Sioux govt overthrown, start Masonry, Trade with Celts Writing -> Masonry (238)
-450 Sioux Monarchy, start Literacy, Trade with Germans Pottery -> Literacy (255)
-425 English Seafaring, Egyptian Govt Overthrown, start Republic, Boston Food, Republic -> Philosophy (320), REVOLUTION, Republic established, T/L/S = 0/6/4
-400 German govt overthrown, Egyptians establish Monarchy, WLTSD in St.Louis, Buffalo, Chicago, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Boston and Washington
-375 Japanese Govt overthrown, Germans establish Monarchy
-350 Japanese establish Monarchy, St.Louis Settlers, Atlanta Settlers, WLTSD ends in Washington, Denver founded (78,64,4)
-325 Egyptians Construction, WLTSD ends in all cities, Philadelphia Food, Washington Food, 4 vans to Washington, 4 vans to Philadelphia
-300 Buffalo Settlers, Philadelphia builds Pyramids, Washington builds HG, Cincinnati founded (90,72), Dallas founded (110,80,21)
-275 Sioux develop Math
-250 Philosophy -> Banking -> Medicine (378)
-225 Los Angeles founded (100,86,22)
-150 New Orleans Dye, Detroit Settlers, Washington Silk
-125 Celts acquire Polytheism, Baltimore Settlers, St. Louis Copper, Boston Silk, Medicine -> Construction (399)
-100 London builds Colossus, Kansas City founded (76,42,4)
-50 contact Icy Egyptians, give Literacy, Peace, Trade Trade -> Construction (660)
-25 Japanese develop Feudalism, start Math, Trade with Sioux Construction -> Math (693)
+1 Start Astronomy, Buffalo Settlers, Chicago Dye, Philadelphia Dye, Washington Dye, New Orleans Dye to Thebes 128, Give Republic to Celts and English

stats at +1:
pop.: 2.18; cities: 17; techs: 20, gov: Republic, gold: 156; trade routes: 0D1F; cost/turn:0
units: 10 Settlers, 8 Warriors, 1 Legion, 3 Trireme, 6 Caravans
wonders: Pyramids, HG, MPE

Footprint: 13 cities in US mainland (2 more will be founded soon with more planned), 2 in (Japan-Egypt) and one in each of 21 and 22.

Celts: 303 gold, 6 cities, 13 Tech (HBR, IW, Poly, Wheel), Despotism, Allied
Japanese: 302 Gold, 4 cities, 12 Tech (Feud, HBR), Monarchy
Germans: 303 Gold, 6 cities, 14 Tech (IW), Monarchy
Egyptians: 253 Gold, 4 cities, 14 Tech (None), Monarchy
English: 380 Gold, 5 cities, 12 Tech (HBR, IW, Sea), Despotism, Colossus
Sioux: 291 Gold, 5 cities, 13 Tech (HBR, IW), Monarchy

Goals: More cities, especially off-mainland, Trade, Science

haleewud said:

First hut of weeds was pretty annoying, but the second hut was an advanced tribe, so that made up for it a little, Nomads from huts 7 and 8 was helpful in getting cities spread out fairly early. I had one off-path tech from a hut, but it came at a good time (since you need one off-path on the way to Monarchy).

Click to expand...

Sounds like a magnificent hut luck: one advanced tribe and two nomads! [/quote]

haleewud said:

-300 Buffalo Settlers, Philadelphia builds Pyramids, Washington builds HG,
-100 London builds Colossus

Click to expand...

Given your goal of spaceship victory, why did you risk losing Colossus in favor of Pyramids?

I did make a conscious decision to complete the Pyramids. I wanted it to shorten the time required to go from size 2 to size 3 (so celebrations can start).

I had six turns between completing Pyramids and the English getting Colossus, so I probably could have built that as well. I guess I just forgot about it until I got the "English have almost completed...." message. By then it was too late.

One of the things I find interesting is the difference in the way we were expanding. ln +1, you had 3 off-shore settlements (on 10, 14 and 23). Checking my map, I didn't even know those islands existed at +1. I had 2 settlements in Japan/Egypt and 1 each on 21 and 22.

Interesting observation indeed haleewud. I checked mine too and I had no knowledge of the existence of 21 and 22. This is an interesting map. We do not usually get this many small islands. The geography is a plus for space ship strategy because it allows better trade returns.

+0010 -> Literacy. Albuquerque founded.
+0020 Legion from hut. Feudalism from hut. This is awful.
+0030 Tonb and Zabol founded.
+0040 Tangestan and Elam founded.
+0050 Advanced tribe founds Spahan.
+0060 Hanging Gardens built.
+0080 Sirjan founded.
+0090 Literacy -> Philosophy. T3L0S7
+0100 Bermuda founded. None legion from hut on island 11.
+0110 Barbarian legion lands near undefended Philadelphia and is bribed for 82g.
+0130 Kuhestan and Bam founded. 100g from hut.
+0140 Nayin founded.
+0150 English build Pyramids. Silk to London for 192 and Cloth to York for 90 establish the first trade routes. Literacy, Seafaring -> Sioux -> Horseback riding, Masonry.
+0160 Yazd and Poole founded. Astronomy from hut.
+0170 Sioux build Colossus. Celts build Lighthouse.
+0180 Philosophy -> Polytheism -> Chivalry.
+0190 Phoenix founded as the last city on mainland. Sangestan founded.
+0200 Gems to York for 96. Domestic offshore wine for 54.
+0210 Silk to English for 96.
+0220 English sneak attack and sink a trireme. Lost another trireme attacking English trireme. Domestic Dye for 40.
+0240 English raze undefended Poole and acquire Iron Working also causing the loss of a trireme. Elephant kills Phalanx defending London. Legion razes London. York bribed for 304g. Got 95g and a Phalanx. Semnan founded. Nomad from hut on (uninhabited?) island 9.
+0250 Japanese build King Richard. Chivalry -> Monotheism. Great Wall built; Japanese switch to Oracle. Domestic deliveries for 44, 54, 60. Hides to Kyoto for 216, 72. Exchanged maps with all rivals except the English.

Status at +250
Population: 1.9M; Cities: 38; Techs: 25; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 501; Cost: 4; Trade routes: 14D3F;
Wonders: Marco, Hanging Gardens, Great Wall
Units: 16 settler, 1 warrior, 1 Phalanx, 2 None Archers, 4 Legions (1 None), 11 Pikemen, 1 None horseman, 2 Elephants, 10 Triremes, 5 diplomats, 7 vans
Footprint: 21 cities in home (no more planned); 1 in England; 4 on 23; 3 on 10; 2 on each of 11, 14, 22; 1 on each of 12, 16, 21.
Goals: Expansion, Sun Tzu, Michelangelo, Monotheism, bribing the rest of English cities, conquest of Japanese. Republic?
Celt: 8 cities, 14 techs; Lighthouse; war with Germans and Sioux
Japanese: 9 cities, 13 techs; King Richard
German: 7 cities, 14 techs; war with Celts and Sioux
Egyptian: Destroyed by Japanese
English: 4 cities, 14 techs; Pyramids; war with me
Sioux: 5 cities, 16 techs; Colossus; war with Celts and Germans

After a few years dealing with illness and personal issues , I am Back , unfortunately I had to reapply for membership since I could not get URUWASHI's Passwords or E-mail sent to me.
I am playing 165 Currently and hope to get back to the fun times. I have no IDEA what path I will pursue on this game , since windows 7 does not allow me to play CIV II, so I have to play it on my old and dilapidated LAP TOP ! So now I am URUWASHI II ...

Thanks Magic !! With your Help I was able to recover my password !

GAME 165-
Starting Location, does not offer any visible Special but I am certain that it may be some hidden under the grassland tiles. Moving One tile to the left ( 107.67 ) will give at least 10 to 14 Land Squares and access to the Ocean.

4000- Moved to Tile 108.66
3950- Tile 106.64 , Visible Whale
3900 – Washington Built at 106.66 @ Ceremonial Burial
3700- Warriors Built , Heading South
3650- CB @ Alphabet
3550- Warriors encounter hut @ 105.75 and Fish Special 107.75
3500 – Hut 105.75 = Horse Man –


Time to use my Excel HUT/Special Finder.
Triangulating distances ( Whale 106.64, Hut 105.75 and Fish Special 107.75 )

Analyzing - The South East Pattern ( since the axis points SE ), Composition EIGHT FISH:
All the numbers MUST be ODD:
Special TILES : A = 95.81 , B= 97.75 , C= 101.73 , D= 107.75, E= 105.81 , F= 101.83 G= 99.79, and H = 103.77.
Huts created by the Pattern To the West – C, D, G and E
Locations : 93.73 –( C minus 8 ) , 99.75 ( D minus 8) , 91.79 ( G minus 8) and 97.81 ( E minus 8 ) - 93.73 and 97.81 are both Ocean Tiles.
Huts created by the Pattern to the East – A , B F and H .
Locations : 103.81 ( A plus 8 ) , 105.75 ( B plus 8 ) , 109.83 ( F plus 8 ) and 111.77 ( H plus 8 ) , Only 105.75 ( uncovered ) is on Land, black cliquing shows the other three are on Ocean Tiles.

Analyzing – The North West Pattern ( since axis points NW ), Composition EIGHT WHALES :
All Numbers must be EVEN.
Whale is then Part of a North West Group of Specials
Special Tiles - A= Is at 100.62 ( Ocean Tile , Unexplored ) , B = 102.56 ( Unexplored , on Land , Continent 14 ) Land , C= 108.58 ( Ocean ) , D= 110.62 ( Ocean ) , E = 108.68 . ( Hidden under Grassland , accessible by Washington ) F = 102.66 ( Hidden under Grassland ) , G = 104.60 ( Ocean ) and H= ( Whale ) 106.64
Huts Created by the Pattern to the East: D, E , F and H , plus 8
118.62 ( D ) Ocean , 116.68 ( E ) Ocean, 110.66 ( F ) Ocean , and 114.64 ( H ) Ocean .
Huts Created to the West : A , B , C and G Minus 8
92.62 ( Unexplored on Land ) , 94.56 ( Ocean ) , 100.58 ( Ocean ) , 112.60 ( ocean ) .

Horseman will start scouting all possible Hut Locations

3500- Horseman will go west , nearest Hut = 99.75
3450- Warriors return to Washington since it is no Huts nearby. Hut @ 99.75 = Advanced Tribe – NEW YORK
3400- Horseman will go to 91.79 nearest Hut .
3250- Hut @ 91.79 =None Settlers.
3200- Alphabet @ Bronze Works – Washington Build Settlers
3000- Boston @ 102.66 – ( Strategic location – Hidden Silk ) – Boston is 3 tiles South of Continent 14 , where I hope to build my Science city , since my Excel Finder has located a 3 Special location with 2 Whales…
2900 – None Settlers building road from NY to Washington
2850 – Horse approaches tile 98.64 ( hut )- Hut = Pottery
2700- Horseman nears Hut at 92.62
2700- Hut = Advanced Tribe , Philadelphia
2650- Bronze Works @ Code of Laws
2600- Horseman near Hut @ 86.62
2550 – Hut 86.62 = 50 Gold
2500- Atlanta @ 108.68 ( Hidden Silk tile )
2450- Horseman approaches tile 80.60 ( Hut ) = Code of Laws @ Mapmaking
2200- Chicago @ 102.70
2100-Population 100.000
2050- Mapmaking @ Monarchy – New York , starts WONDER ( Lighthouse , will change it to Pyramids &#8230
2000- Boston Tile Mined = Silk ( Instead of 2 food , 1 shield and 1 trade arrow0 now Boston produces 1 food , 2 Shields and 3 trade arrows )
1850- Philly Build Settlers
1750- Horseman approaches hut at 79.77
1700- Hut = 1 Barbarian – San Francisco @ 98.64
1650- Atlanta builds Trireme
1550- Monarchy @ Currency
1500- Buffalo ( Science City ) built @ 101.59 Continent 14 – Hut @ 73.75 = None Settlers - REVOLUTION
1450-Government Changed to Monarchy
1300- St Louis @ 103.53 ( continent 14 )
1250- Detroit @ 98.54 ( Continent 14 )
1200- Population 200.000- Currency @ Masonry
950- Masonry @ trade
875- Trireme ( 2 Settlers ) approach Continent 10 – Hut 99.47 = 50 Gold
800- Trireme ( 1 Settler ) approaches East of Continent 10 , Hut @ 105.49 = Horseman- NEW Orleans Built @ 97.45 ( continent 10 )
775- Baltimore @ 105.49 ( continent 10)
775- Trade @ Seafaring
675- Denver @ 105.75, Cincinnati @ 102.78 – Population 400.000
650- Dallas @ 100.48 – Seafaring @ Construction
575- Los Angeles @ 101.43
550- Kansas City @ 89.57
500- Germans Start Pyramids – Population 500.000- San Diego @ 86.52
475- Construction @ Mysticism
375- English Start Pyramids – Celts Start Pyramids- PYRAMIDS @ New York
350- Colossus @ Bufalo
325 - Hanging Gardens @ Buffalo – Sioux Start Lighthouse – Mysticism @ Mathematics
300- Population 900.000
200- Mathematics @ Astronomy
125- Marco Polo @ Washington , GREAT WALL @ Chicago
MARCO POLO REPORTS :

Celts: Enthusiastic. 4 Cities, 9 techs , ( IW and Warrior Code ), war with Germans
Japanese: Uncooperative .4 cities, 7 techs., ( Horseback, IW, WC and Wheel )
German: Cordial - 7 cities, 14 techs ( HB , IW, WC and Writing ) at war with Celts
Egyptian: Receptive, 4 cities , 9 techs ( Writing ).
English: Neutral. 6 cities, 9 techs ( HB )
Sioux: Uncooperative. 7 cities, 9 techs; ( HB and IW )
Egyptians – Trade x Writing- Germans – Trade x Horseback – Celts : Iron Works x Ceremonial Burial
50- Buffalo Builds LIGHTHOUSE - Astronomy @ Navigation
1 AD -
Population: 1.660.000 ; Cities: 18; Techs: 18; Government: Monarchy
Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders ( 6 ) : Pyramids – Hanging Gardens – Colossus – Lighthouse – Great Wall – Marco Polo – ( Science City Building Copernicus )

I had to miss #164 and got to this one late but have found time to play.

Comparing my experience to those who have posted already I got to Monarchy very quickly with the help of two huts, but I squandered any advantage by the AD1 checkpoint!


4000- Washington (109,67). Start alphabet.
3750- new warrior goes west.
3450- Disc Alphabet -> CB, warrior turns south.
3350- first sighting of a special (buffalo).
3300- and it has a hut adjacent.
3250- hut: CoL.
3200- warrior SE.
3150- warrior E.
3050- hut(105,75): AT New York. Fish adjacent - will help science
3000- Settlers at Washington. First gold earned.

2950-
2900-
2850- Boston (106,70).
2800-
2750-
2700- Disc CB -> Monarchy.
2650-
2600-
2550-
2500-

2450- Ignore hut.
2400-
2350-
2300-
2250- Disc Monarchy -> MM. Become Monarchy. Hut: Archers.

AD1
19 cities, 50 population (960,000). Monarchy.
15 cities on home continent #15, others on #9, #10, #14, #23.
14 techs, with opportunity to swap a few more, but there's nothing I need just now.
9 settler, 7 warriors, 3 phalanx, 2 archer, 1 legion, 1 horse, 1 ele, 5 trireme, 1 dip, 7 vans.
HG, LH, MPE.
The aim is early conquest and I need LH to go east from the start position. I haven't started any barracks yet though.

I played a few turns some time ago and then took my frequently civ2-break. So I will be skipping this one and be back for #166.

I am playing for a fairly early conquest, as always. My first thoughts were similar to Ali's, that this map lacks forests etc for shields. In particular, the size-1 trick won't work out in the starting area. I reluctantly chose to explore first, to the West. Each turn without seeing forests or specials was painful. In hindsight, there are whales nearby, but I didn't spot them and I didn't do any map analysis - not sure that would have helped. I got 50g from a hut at <98,64> in approx 3700BC, which allowed RB/Size 1, and so I decided to finally settle.

-3650: Washington (1).
-3150: RB'd a S.
-3050: New York (2).
-3000: Start on alphabet (Science has been at 40%, so no beakers til now).
-2600: S#2 born in Wash, alph-->c.b.
-2350: Boston (3). Recent huts = another 50g and hbr. My hut luck in this game was OK, but I got no nomads or ATs until approx 200BC. My growth rate is pretty far behind my norm and the games of halewuud and Urawashi. Also, without many visible arrow-specials, monarchy was becoming an issue, so I soon raised Sci to 60%.

Stats at -2000: 4 cities, despotism, 1S, 2adv. Goal=ICS.

-1600: Up to 7 cities. Germans start on Colossus. Soon, Japan defeats Egypt.
-1250: Mon-->BW and we switch govts.
-1150: hut=BW. This happened a few times, that huts gave us the tech we were researching. Lucky, I guess, but I'd prefer nomads. Soon, +2 cities.

Stats at -1000: 9 cities, monarchy, 3S, 1w, 6adv, 1adv/18t, 48g, 25Mfg, 6 roads. Goals = Curr/Trade, vans for MPE (partly to get mapmaking/pots, etc), release first flotillas, maybe build a few defensive units.

-800: up to 14 cities, Trade-->mm, another +50g hut.
-750: hut=mm.
-675: MPE in Boston. We get Pot, Mys + Poly, and all maps. There were fairly clear sea routes only to England and Japan. I could not plan out the whole game yet.
Power rankings were Jap (strongest), Ger, Eng, Sio, Cel (weakest).

Goals = 1-2 barracks, overseas vans at $$, HG, decide on LH asap. Soon, the Germans switch to Pyr and then finish it quickly. A bit sad, but not essential to US plans. We research Seaf [very slowly] because the other options were worse. The Japs have it but won't trade for it. So, no new US techs until -250.

-550: First flotilla = 1van+1S towards Japan. I did not record stats at -500. We are shifting towards a greedy Hides game until we can find a decent route to continent 1.
-400: barracks produces first vet ellie.
-350: Make peace with Japan to protect a weak outpost city.
-250(approx): hut = AT, finally. Seaf-->Lit (after Wri from the Celts at some point). Van2 from Phil to York pays +192g. The Van1 from NY to Osaka pays +184g.
-200: Lit-->Phil. HG in NY.
-125(approx): +400g from 2v's at Kyoto and again in -75. Huts=AT,AT,nomads (sweet, but too late to affect the game much), phil->mono->repu. A brave trireme (pre-LH but with Seaf) sails deep ocean to reach Land#1 and we get an outpost between the Celts, Germans and Sioux. War with England and Germans (in both cases a lonely legion defends a US outpost against enemy horsemen). A nearby US outpost from a hut/nomad is razed by the Sioux [slightly later, in 10AD]. Pay barbs 68g not to sack a defenseless island colony.

Stats at +1: 38 cities, pop 1M, monarchy, 8S, 5el/cru, 15tri, 8v, 7misc, 0Lost. 19adv, 125g. Roughly 23 cities in homeland, 10 on islands, 3 in Japan, 1 near Celts, 1 in England. Have built a profitable ship-chain to Kyoto, but only one good Hides-producing city left. Goals = LH (in 2 more turns), invade land #1, get tribute from the rich Celt/Sioux/Germs. Decide when to switch from mainly trading to mainly conquest.

I have finished and submitted.

On this large map, the limiting factor with our conquest was how long it took to reach the furthest cities. Slim Buttes was about 11 ship moves and 8 cavalry turns away from the home area. I didn't tackle this issue properly anything like early enough. And I didn't get it quite right anyway; I feared the difficulty of the Sioux more than the Celts, but in fact it was the conquest of the Celts than limited the game. And I fell into habits that apply more when restarts=on.

Very nice to have Peaster's company and it was no surprise to see his comparatively colossal number of cities at 1AD. Rather than the number of cities though it's the 3 cities in Japan and the ship chain that I think will be the key.

I won't do a log to the end, but to 250 is in order. Note the large map means it is a 520 turn game, even though at King level.

10- Give Trade and Pottery to English(1) to get maps.
20- Disc Republic -> Philosophy. Talk to Japs(5), they want 50g.
Bribe Japanese Thebes for 288g, getting 100g and Iron.
Van, Washington (celebrating) -> Dallas (on #9, continent en route to Sioux), Silver, for 164g.
Sioux start Pyramids, Japanese start Colossus.
30-
40- Van, New York - Nottingham (English), Hides, for 88g.
First building - barracks in Thebes.
Found Phoenix (on #19, England), Albuquerque (on #11, island off Egypt).
50- Disc Philosophy -> Monotheism -> Seafaring.

60- Van, Atlanta - Three Forks (Sioux), Beads, for 176g.
70-
80-
90- Found Portland (on #1, east of Washington.)
100- Sneak attack by English. Warrior and population lost.

110- Atlanta Builds Michaelangelo Chapel. Disc Seafaring -> Banking.
War vs English goes badly. Sioux nearly done Colossus.
120- Wounded Knee (Sioux) builds Colossus. Celts change to Oracle. Japs change to Pyramids. English abandon.
Swap Philosophy to Germans for Masonry, update maps.
130- Found Minneapolis.
English start Oracle.
140- Hut(radius):50g.
Van, Boston-Heliopolis (Egypt), Dye, for 192g.
Van, Washington-Leipzig(German), Dye, for 192g.
150- Raze English Nottingham.
100g from Egyptians.
We have what we need for conquest.
Am building up army, some barracks provide core vet units, mostly just crusaders.
Now 13 crusaders and 11 boats, 450g left being used for IRB.

160-
Japanese nearly done Pyramids.
170-
Kyoto builds Pyramids. Sioux, Germans change to GW.
180- Find Canterbury.
Crusader lost to Jap.
190- Capture London, taking 53g and HBR, and removing a dangerously placed trireme.
Capture Canterbury. Hut: barbs - ele will be lost.
Germans change to GL.
200- Take 300g from Jap for ceasefire.
Give Philosophy to Celts, update maps.
Crusader lost in England.

210- Bribe York for 61g, getting 19g back. Found Maidstone, Baton Rouge.
Take 100g from English for ceasefire.
220- Give Republic to German, share maps.
Barb uprising on home island.
230- Disc Banking -> Construction. Time to lose spotless reputation.
Attack Germans, capturing Leipzig, 49g and Maths. They abandon GL.
Van, SanFrancisco-Portland, Hides, for 60g.
240- Capture Hamburg. Get 100g for ceasefire with Germans.
Attack Japanese, capturing Satsuma and taking the Wheel.
Attack English, capturing Hastings.
Celts nearly done Oracle. Crusader lost to Japanese.
250- Capture Japanese Edo.
Van, Philadelphia - Heliopolis (Egyptian), for 128g.
Bribe Coventry for 108g - English out.
Attack Germans again.
Give Republic to Celts.

C Little Bighorn is building GW, need about 3 turns to capture.
Perhaps I should be ready to build it myself...

Stats

39 cities, 2,180,000. Monarchy.
24 techs.
41 crusaders (don't know why so many?), 15 boats, 1 dip, 2 explorers.
HG, LH, MPE, Mike's.

Celts: Neutral, peace, 6 cities, 14 techs.
Japanese: Unco-op, war, 2 cities, 13 techs.
Germans: Unco-op, war, 2 cities, 16 techs.
Egyptians: Receptive, peace, 3 cities, 11 techs.
English: OUT
Sioux: Receptive, peace, 6 cities, 14 techs.

Cardiff builds Oracle. Japs found Kagoshima.

Inkerman said:

I have finished and submitted.

On this large map, the limiting factor with our conquest was how long it took to reach the furthest cities. Slim Buttes was about 11 ship moves and 8 cavalry turns away from the home area. I didn't tackle this issue properly anything like early enough. And I didn't get it quite right anyway; I feared the difficulty of the Sioux more than the Celts, but in fact it was the conquest of the Celts than limited the game. And I fell into habits that apply more when restarts=on.

Very nice to have Peaster's company and it was no surprise to see his comparatively colossal number of cities at 1AD. Rather than the number of cities though it's the 3 cities in Japan and the ship chain that I think will be the key.

Click to expand...

I am still playing at approx 200AD, and it looks like a close race. We have similar WoWs, etc, but different problems. I have about 40 triremes IIRC, and can reach the AI lands with crusaders, vans, etc. But I am attacking the Celts and Germans from the West, which is rather slow and awkward. So far, the Germans have been toughest, with 4 large cities and some walls. My Japanese have 6 cities, all of which I can get to, but I have not attacked yet. They will probably be last to go.

I am also playing as if restarts were on, but this was more or less intentional, because I just enjoy big Hides games. If Ali plays for conquest and grigor plays his lean EC style we may get some interesting comparisons. I think this map may be a little too big and slow for lean, but I am interested to see how that goes.

I agree with Inkerman, in my game the main obstacle were not the Celts BUT the Sioux , I was never able to get their Map location, I had LH and Magellan , still they had cities all over the map ! Wounded Knee, Bear Paw and Little Bighorn were located across from Tokyo&#8230;.Stony Lake and Three Forks , sandwiched between Germans and Celts&#8230;.the rest were located far north and only accessible by two straights , one west near Cardiff , and one Northwest of Tokyo.
I started with the Japanese, thanks to the Egyptians that provided a Map&#8230;then the English and Germans,( had their map ) at one point I had 25 or 30 Veteran Crusaders in Germania but after I took Berlin and London I took the rest of their cities with dips. Celts an Egyptian were at peace and worship me&#8230;BUT Celts stole a tech, while I was sailing North to locate Sioux Main ( where they had 6 or 7 cities ), so I diverted my attack to White since I knew the location of all their cities. Ditto with Egyptians, I had decimated Japan, I had taken all but one SNEAKY Nippon city&#8230;Nagoya.
So my problem was the Sioux .
I did amass a good amount of Gold, in a 8 turns in Soft Fundy, ( about 1000 gold per turn + Caravans ) so I dismantled 60 % of my Crusaders that conquered Germany into Ironclads, taking Cardiff , Three Forks, and Thebes ( all Coastal Capitals ) and dismantling my Caravels into diplomats. It only took 6 Ironclads to eliminate defensive Units of the Capital cities, and occupy the conquered city with a Pike man, then rushing dips&#8230; Having the extra Cash , I decided to destroy the defensive units of other cities then using a Diplomat , cost me between 200 and 300 gold to conquer a city without destroying the infrastructure ( in most cases , cities had Granaries , City Walls and Barracks , but since I had built all the wonders available I sold most of the needless buildings ) , leaving the population intact&#8230; plus the Gold plundered , in many cases I broke even.
I did not need many Crusaders to Conquer all Six Civs, but lots of Diplomats !

Just finished, and I guess you guys were right about the Sioux. They were the last to go. Here is my log from 1AD through 250AD. IIRC in 1AD I was building LH + ship chains + canal cities to access the Celts. And more ICS-ing until the end is in sight.

10ad: The faraway Sioux somehow raze a US outpost near the Celts with a chariot. Luckily, this was not a crucial canal city. Two US vans to Kyoto average 200g each.

20ad-40ad: LH in Boston. Sioux ellie defeats US explorer, again just out of the blue. They wanted blood, which is OK, but it was hard to talk and to get their maps. Cease fire with England because a US outpost there is too weak.

60-100ad: med-->math-->uni (but tech is now irrelevant). Van averages rise to 230g or so, 1-2 per turn. Have 2 outposts in England now, 3 in/near Japan, and 4 on #1(Celts/Germans...). Egypt is long gone and the Sioux are just beyond my Japanese ship chain, thus not a problem. Have 50 cities.

110ad: We begin collecting small tributes each turn, mainly from the J's. Somehow supply and demand has settled, and Hides trade with Kyoto has become very viable again.

Sea barbs land near a vacant US city, Baltimore West (actually, almost all my cities are vacant). I do build road networks, partly for defense, but the nearest US city is busy rioting and cannot build/help out. My units are also too far away. We are too rich to pay them off. Hmmm. Finally found a way to bring back a distant crusader along my main ship chain and remove the threat.

120ad: It now seemed time to turn my thoughts towards conquest, as opposed to general growth, greed and transportation, though all these are good tools for conquest. I aimed to finish in roughly 15 turns (270ad). Without counting all the details, I guessed the Germans would be toughest, since they had large inaccessible cities, some with rivers or walls. I was building outposts on their Western coast and decided to send some units towards their Eastern coast as well (bypassing England).
In hindsight, I probably should've started conquest sooner, but was enchanted by the booming US-Japan Hides business.

170ad: Celts declare war rather than give tribute. Mike's in NY [probably I should have done this sooner]. A US sneak attack at York [the Eng capitol] requires 5 crux attacks, plus an explorer to enter. Then, we bribe a size 4 Eng city.

180ad: Germans want war. My 3 saboteurs fail at Berlin; I nicknamed the 3rd one "Ronnie" but still it could not take down the Berlin walls. Then, I discovered that I was not attacking the capitol! The Germans apparently moved it to Hamburg and we missed the news. But we really had to go through Berlin anyway.

I also found that the Sioux had built a 4th city, but they were way more interested in war than in trading maps. Judging from the surprise attacks, I guessed the city must be to the south, near the Celts, and I built explorer units to find it, but this idea turned out the be very wrong. I will not say more about this until all the games are done.

200ad: With help from ship chains + new roads, more dips arrive and deal with the walls at Berlin. It then falls to US crux, which are starting to swarm into this area. A routine flotilla attack takes down LBH, the Sioux cap, but a 2nd attack at Cedar Creek fails. Fortunately there is no counterattack, so that city falls in 210ad.

My ship chain to Kyoto / the Sioux still carries a few vans, enough to keep the coffers over 2000g much of the time. But now it also carries dips and crux towards Kyoto and other J cities.

220: Bribe last Eng city for 100g+, Eng down. We sneak attack W.Knee, then bribe it for 192g. Disband the Archer there to RB a dip for the last Sioux city. Celtic capitol down to 2 crux+expl. Bribe Celt boat and Tintagel. Spy on Hamburg; 3 units there. van=344.

230: Econ-->Chem. van=368 to Kyoto. Then sneak vs Kyoto [oh, the guilt!], needing 5 crux. It was size 8, so I just assumed it had walls [the Japanese city gifs are almost useless to me] until I noticed that it had been building the Colossus since the Dark Ages. Also, bribed 3-4 small Jap cities for 177g each. Defeated a weak size 5 Jap city using 1 crusader + 1 explorer to save $$. Defeated the German capitol, Hamburg, with 4 crux. Then Konigsberg with 2. The four G cities were all size 6 to 8.

240: Defeat 2 northern Celt cities with 1 dip, 1 crus, 1 expl. Celts down.Bribe Osaka, Japs down. Crusaders defeat Leipzig, Germans down. This was the end except for Slim Buttes, which was not easy to find, or get to. I guess I won't tell that part yet.

Stats at 250AD: Monarchy. 91 cities !? Roughly 25 in the homeland, 15 in Germany, 10 each in Celtland and Japan, 10 in/near England, 20 misc [Sioux/Islands]. Pop 4.2M. Have 40cr, 49tri, 13dips, about 40 misc units, 7 lost. 5WoWs = HG, MPE, LH, MC, Pyr[at Berlin]. 2200g. 30adv. 8 barracks (5 captured). Repn = really awful. One AI city remains, not necessarily dead soon.

Remark: It is wrong to gather 2200g and not use it. But I expected to need it on bribes in the last few turns, and was pleasantly surprised when some unlikely crusader+explorer attacks succeeded and saved some US gold.

This is a pretty big map. Black clicking shows that we are on a long island (#15). There are some islands north of us reachable by Trireme. It looks like efficient ICS is the way to go, with the initial goal of 20 cities by 1000BC. Conquering will require lots of Naval Units.

4000 Nothing but grass. I will spend 3 turns looking for a special or a forest. Move 1 square west. Still nothing but grass.
3950 Move 1 square S = a forest! Now I can size 1 - But I need an exploratory unit first. Taxes 40-60 as Peaster plan.
3900 Washington founded. Build warrior.
3750 move worker to ocean as warrior builds.
3700 Researching Alphabet. Warrior uncovers more forest for second city.
3650* Warrior discovers a Fish.
3600 Hut: 50g – this will speed up Size 1.
3350 RB settler
3300 Size 1 Settler
3200 Whale found near Washington.
3150 New York founded
3000 Status: 2 Cities. Washington size 2.

2950 Hut: Boston
2900 Taxes back to 60. With no 2nd level to rushbuy the gold isn’t so useful.
2850* Alphabet=> CoL
2700 Washington: Settlers
2550 CoL=> BW. Philadelphia. Hut: 50g
2500 NY settler
2400 Atlanta by the lake.
2200 BW => CB
2050* Chicago (6)
2000 Status: 6 Cities, Despotism

1950 CB => Mon
1900 Hut: Nomads
1850* Nomad founds San Francisco (7)
1800 Buffalo (8)
1650* Mon=>Curr Revolution: Gov: Monarchy.

1500 St. Louis (9)
1350 Curr=>Trade. Detroit (10)
1300 Hut: HB
1200 New Orleans (11)
1050* Trade => Maps. Baltimore, Denver (13)
1000 Status: 13C, 2 settlers on city sites. researching MM
reduce science and move to fast MPE

975 Cincinnati, Dallas. Hut: Map Making.
950 res Myst
900 first triremes discover whale off coast of Boston
875 hut: Los Angeles (16)
850 hut: Kansas City. MPE
Germans: get Mas, Const, Pots. Share maps
Egypt: get Math, share maps.
English: trade for Writing. Give Math. Get maps
Celts: get IW, share maps
Japanese: get Myst, give lots of tech, share maps
Sioux: share maps, dump a lot of tech.
--pretty good haul from Mr. Polo...

Decision point: the AI is pretty spread out. Science or Taxes? Science is poor (11 turns to something at best; worst is 31), Foreign trade is in order.

Possible plans:
1. 40 Cities ASAP
2. Trireme in every port city (14)
3. HG, LH
4. Foreign Trade (8 turns from Washington to London once roads are completed)
5. Finish road network

I am going with Taxes for the next 7 turns.

825* Researching Literacy (about halfway on a 28-turn cycle.
800. San Diego (17)
775 Richmond on northern isand.
750 First unhappiness – I need HG. Hut: Seafaring.
725* Egypt starts Pyr.
650 Las Vegas (20). Phoenix (21) on South island
600 Still need money – plan is to get HG before delivering van.
500 vans delivered for HG. Science to max..

Status: 21C, MPE, HG next
12 Settlers, 1 Warrior, 2 horse,, 7 Trireme, 4 vans

Plans: LH, MC. Almost finished with road network. Plan for foreign trade with Egypt and others with LH. Tech path: Lit, Phil, Poly, Mono, Republic

475 HG. Hut: Albuquerque on island 9
450 Lit= Phil. Portland on S. island. Washington Silk to London (d, 240). Hut: Phil., wasting the delivery. Hut: Nomads
425* Poly=>Mono
400 Hut: Elephant. Washington Gems to York (d, 264). Boston Hides to York (d, 120) Detroit Copper to Heliopolis (d, 120)
375 Washington Library. Naples (26)
350 Mono => Rep (726). Issus (27). Hut: Legion (Albuquerque)
325* Cunaxa (28)
300 Cremona (39). Cannae (30)
275 English: War. Nottingham captured (52g)
250 Capua (31)
225* Turin (32) Genoa (32)
175 Boston Hides to London (d, 96)
125* Republic. Revolution. Gov: Republic. MC in Atlanta.
75 Thebes builds Colossus. Washington Wool to Camarthen (d, 184). Hut: Verona. Celts: give Republic.

I now can plan the game: Big Trade until Demo, SoL, Fundy, conquer with crooks.
Need cities near Celts.
Need shipchain to Egypt.

Status: 10 Settlers, 12 Trireme, 4 Vans (building 20)
Many cities could grow with harbors. Yes or no? No - ICS or vans will be faster
Tech plan: Bank (half of 759) , steal wheel from English, eng, inv, Demo
Conquest plan:
English: Conquer in 1 turn when I switch from Republic
Germans: surround with cities. Use English crooks from the East. Need many cities for dips.
Egypt: save for end – continue as hides centers.
Japanese: conquer Kyoto, then dips. use crooks for Sioux
Sioux: Conquer from Japs
Celts: need 4 cities near them.

RB Barracks in Nottingham. Turn Science down.
50 Salamis, Lisbon (38). Flotilla leaves for Celts. Hut: Medicine.

1AD Hut: German South. Washington builds Aqueduct. .

Status: 39 Cities, 9 Setttlers, MPE, HG, MC. Working toward HG next. Gov: Republic
23 Techs, Banking in 2 turns with hides vans.
6 warriors, 1 legion, 2 horse, 1 elephant, 1 crook, 15 Trireme, 6 Vans,

Goals: Huge Expansion .
Tech path: Banks, Steal Wheel from English. Japanese working on Bridge building – let them finish it. Astro, Nav, Magellan is necessary.

@grigor: Looks like an interesting game, though not in your usual minimalist style. I guess you want Demo / Fundy, which will take a while, for the economic benefits and gold star possibilities ? How did you like the early high tax method (your 1ad science stats seem fine to me) ?

It seems some logs are not yet complete, but when everyone is done playing maybe we can compare EC dates, etc.

@Peaster: in this game the early tax was not important since I got a 50g hut. Without a 2nd row unit, rush buy was compromised. I thought Monarchy in 1650 was my slowest date in about ten RT years. But I will try it again next month.