BOTM 89 Final Spoiler -Game over or abandoned

BOTM 89 Final Spoiler -Game over or abandoned


This is the thread to discuss how your entire game went.

Divulge your strategies, pitfalls, and successes here! Praise/condemnation for the map-maker is also welcome.

Did the early choices help you define a goal earlier or not?


Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 89, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER

• You have submitted your entry, OR
• You have abandoned your game and will not submit.

Posting Restrictions
Do not post any savegame file from the game until after the competition has closed. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.

I liked the setup of this game, however I suspect that the AI that you found yourself with determined more of the game than the starting position might have.

For example, I went for food and found the Japanese empire (and wiped out the Japanese empire very early on) and thus had no one to trade with for a long time. Granted on Noble the AI isn't that great of a trading partner but still. And even if I had kept Japan around it would have been difficult to trade with them.

Perhaps a similar game in the future could be created where the AI leaders you meet in the different scenarios are all the same (or perhaps reveal who your neighbors will be as well as the starting resources).

bcool said:

I liked the setup of this game, however I suspect that the AI that you found yourself with determined more of the game than the starting position might have.

For example, I went for food and found the Japanese empire (and wiped out the Japanese empire very early on) and thus had no one to trade with for a long time. Granted on Noble the AI isn't that great of a trading partner but still. And even if I had kept Japan around it would have been difficult to trade with them.

Perhaps a similar game in the future could be created where the AI leaders you meet in the different scenarios are all the same (or perhaps reveal who your neighbors will be as well as the starting resources).

Click to expand...

Yeah, why not. In fact, my sick mind has toyed with the idea of exposing the entire map for you. But such gifts from mapmakers always come with a price, so be careful what you wish for,

The food start was the only one allowing settling an island with 2 cities and release a vassal. I found out it is possible too late. Still I released the Americans (Hah! USA a vassal of Sitting Bull! I like it ) very late (too late) granting him a bunch of strong techs (I made a colony around 25 AD so Roosevelt had been given Astronomy for example.

+1 happiness and trading partner would be sooo powerful in food start.

Anyway. Food continent definitely was the best, giving possibilities of:
- extreme great people farm in Kyoto (and with National Park using tundra forest - even more extreme). Resourceless dog soldier vs Toku warriors: cruueeeel!
- very strong production site (1W from horses)
- enough forest to chop chosen wonder (I went GLH, but Mids would probably be better - with the happines bonus from representation)\
- the only start allowing granting independence after getting rid of rivals.
- the only start allowing BC Astronomy because of max food
The downside was lack of clear beauro capitol, but to be sincere - none of start would allow it (other continents had even worst sites for beauro)



Production continent allowed nearly domination (and visit Toku when he is in stone age).
But the rivals are really far away, so economy will suffer. At least some trading partners, but we would be limited to 4 city sites because of the jungle.
Nice to have Mansa for trading, but this start forced to kill him very early, otherwise the player will stagnant with nearly no food.



Commerce start was a trap for greedy players
Not a single good tile to settle. The only rescue was to warrior rush China. But even after taking Beijing the land is weak.


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I went food and got BC Astro. My mistake was not releasing early vassal, but still managed to get early Astro. Later I settled other continents:
1) gems+gold (no food)
2) directly on Ivory on the other side of that island
3) 2 cities on production continent
Meantime I rexed on home continent using GLH trade roiutes.

I had a very nasty plan on China, to settle 1 tile island and burn GArtist there - so I could have furs, claims and not paying colony expanses - but the turn I unloaded settler + artist, Chinese borders popped

Finished pretty late diplomatic (1660) with 34 cities + 5 of vassals (3 Roosevelt, 2 Mansa). Pacal and Mao voted for me sharing religion. Wars: Toku, MM, Justinian (3 cities taken), Sury (1 city taken last turn).

The most funny ws fighting triremes with privateers. I dont know how it was possible, that a civ with so few coastal cities can spam triremes soo much all the time :]

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I definitely could do better if:
- release a vassal very very early
- go Mids instead of GLH
- go caste instead of staying in slavery for nearly the whole game.
- construct Forbidden Palace earlier
- attack Mansa pre-feudalism


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I am extremely curious if anyone went for gold+gems and how the game finished

Turn 274 cultural victory. I chose the hammer site and in retrospect, it was a good choice. The commerce site was absolute garbage and the food site had Toku's capital right next door. The lack of food in the capital did slow me down, but I managed to build a compact 6-city empire.

Most of the culture in the capital came from the wonders I spammed. The other two were powered by artist specialists, cathedrals and strategic culture bombs near the end. I had 4 different religions in my empire and I eventually managed to spread every one of them to every city. Having built the 'Mids meant that I could keep up with the AI in tech despite running 100% culture slider.

Made a couple of stupid mistakes too: I almost had a great engineer killed because I didn't realize he was onboard a galley that engaged a barb galley in combat. Luckily I won! Later in the game, I accidentally flipped into a wrong religion after clicking the wrong button in the religion screen. Needless to say, I was angry, but I respected the rules of the competition and didn't reload.

All in all, pretty peaceful game. I got into war 2 times when Sury and Mansa used AP to dogpile Justinian and dragged me into it as well. Both wars ended with me killing a couple of Justy's units and making white peace. I could have burned a city or two, but I didn't want to. Sury was already kicking his ass and becoming pretty scary toward the end. Also, Mansa peace-vassaled to Sury because he's Mansa. The rest of the AIs I met too late for any of them to really matter.

Jouzou. Having Toku's capitol just on the borders was the bless as he had only 1 warrior protecting the city (+ free worker for us)

bcool said:

I liked the setup of this game, however I suspect that the AI that you found yourself with determined more of the game than the starting position might have.

For example, I went for food and found the Japanese empire (and wiped out the Japanese empire very early on) and thus had no one to trade with for a long time. Granted on Noble the AI isn't that great of a trading partner but still. And even if I had kept Japan around it would have been difficult to trade with them.

Perhaps a similar game in the future could be created where the AI leaders you meet in the different scenarios are all the same (or perhaps reveal who your neighbors will be as well as the starting resources).

Click to expand...

After i finish this map that was my 1st thought that having toku neighbour could be harder but now i dont think thats a case on noble ... at least not for tech treading becouse what i remember any trades i had from mansa was math (and yea i got this math when i needed didnt have to selftech it) but what i can remember other tech trades was i don know xD maybe meditation and monoteism and i think thats all xD.
Well problem with toku is thats he dosnt open borders and even if u go glh u loose , u need to make a vassel or sth or get him top pleased what is hard without religion he isnt pleased with +4 trade realations +1 peace and bonus from supplied resources at lest on deity dont know is there anydiference on noble, but anyway.
What makes diference in my opinion as a wormoger that this stone site u got 3 ais and huge land mass so if u settle there u can ezy get them befor astronomy and have hugest land in pocked if u settle food site u need to go u know "astronomy" invasion and conquer this what can rly take turns so tahts why stone site was more adv imo if u playing for score or sth.

Anyway cool map thanks for posting xD waiting for another deity thing xD

enKage said:

Jouzou. Having Toku's capitol just on the borders was the bless as he had only 1 warrior protecting the city (+ free worker for us)

Click to expand...

He had 2 warriors defending by the time I got there. But I had 5 chariots plus 2 more on the way. I was needlessly worried about protective archer defenders.


My goal was fastest Conquest. Vassaled the AIs (just keeping their Capitals) in this order: China, Mali, Byzantium, Khmer, Maya.
1595 AD.

I delayed Astronomy (taken from Liberalism) so I could build more promoted crossbows and longbows and trebs. In hindsight, cavalry war is so much faster, all the hammers I put into archery units would have been better spent on research.

I only did one war at a time. Declaring on Pacal the turn Sury capitulated.
Are the AIs less likely to capitulate if you are in multiple wars?

I went for the stone/marble site, it was too tempting to miss such an opportunity to spam wonders. I ended the game with 12 of them in my capital, it got its culture mostly just from wonders and only one cathedral. After getting an idea of the neighbors, I chose to settle city number 2 on the coast above Mansa grabbing banana, pigs and gems. That became a great people farm of sorts, though capital still produced a lot of them. I then settled city 3 in the north of the capital. I was living in peace for a while and thinking I might just squeeze six cities after that strategic land grab and live in peace. But Mansa was so poorly defended and once Sury declared on him I had to join and take Timbuktu for myself. I made that my 3rd Legendary city after building Moai Statues and then 4 cathedrals and Hermitage. Despite the late start in culture it quickly caught up with the other two. I founded Conf, Tao and Islam, two of them in my great people city. I don't think it had a big effect on diluting the great people pool near the end. 7 great artists in total, 13 other great people. Cultural victory in 1832AD, the turn of my victory Mao entered my waters with a stack of galleons and declared on me. I think I refused some demand for tribute earlier. It wasn't a worry since I had Rifling, but I had a little nuisance with some privateers before that because I delayed Astronomy for too long.
Very nice idea with this map, thank you for the fun! I probably could have finished pre-1800 with a little more focus and perhaps declaring on Mansa earlier. I was just enjoying building wonders too much.

I also tried the game again after submitting, this time heading for the food site. I destroyed Toku and then was lonely for a long time, finished culture in late 1800s as the other continent all vassalized by Sury declared war on me.

So I think my first choice of the hammer site was the right one for a cultural victory, but I can see the benefits of the other one for more aggressive strategies.

I also went for culture, but did so from the food continent, following the old adage that food trumps all else. Decided to settle W from that visible plain hill. It also had good food and left space for a city on sheep as a potential secondary GP farm.

Toku gave me a worker and when I saw he only had a warrior in his capital quickly built a dog soldier for a 2nd worker and a nice food rich city as primary GP farm and LC #2. A spot for LC #3 was finally found due west at the flood plain with 6 riverside cottages and 2 food resources.

Built GLH as first wonder, it quickly looked like nearly all cities would be coastal. Ended up with 14 cities, a bit much for a cultural attempt but easier for the religion spreading and for getting all temples up. Finding marble at the end of the continent certainly was nice, helped with all the key wonders being MoM, Sistine and Taj. Biggest set back of the game was a failed attempt at a CS sling with the Oracle by 1 turn.

Anyway, founded the 4 later religions and got all the cathedrals in the 3 LCs as soon as I could. The end result was an unspectacular 1675 win. Having no trading partners until quite late made things slow of course. Missing out on the CS sling and forgetting about adopting a religion earlier also costed valuable turns. But well, in hindsight any game can be won faster than you do. Thanks for the game.

I settled the Production site aiming for a Cultural victory, forgot how slow the AI is in Noble but having Mansa as a neighbour was a boon. Played pretty lazily whilst watching some sports. With about 50 turns until Culture victory the opportunity for a Religious win presented itself so tweaked some Civics and made some deals leading to an AP win in 1870.

Thanks for a very fun game - adding the choice at the beginning was a nice twist.

Starting at the NE production spot, I mostly built in peace, razing one Byzantine city because it was planted in a spot I wanted a turn or two before my Settler got there. Used a Great Merchant rom GLH for Currency and a Great Prophet to grab Theocracy before anyone could steal it in a far away land. I managed to found four religions. Buddhism spread to my cities naturally, Hinduism never made it to my continent, and I missed Taoism by just a turn, but lucked out and got a random spread to a minor city right away. I founded 8 cities, and used the Mali capital as the 9th to build temples/cathedrals.

Research was slow due without much trading, and I crawled to Music at 400AD and Liberalism sometime close to 1000AD. I was only leaving 1 unit in each city and actually lost two border cities to a Byzantine invasion before I could whip enough defenders. A counter-attack force recaptured these ( rampaging through Mali lands since they would not open borders). In retrospect, recapturing those cities was not meaningful for the cultural race because the capital was so far ahead of the other two cities it did not really need the last round of Cathedrals, but it was more fun rescuing those cities than just clicking enter at the end of the game.

Religion spread and building was pretty efficient, but I botched one Great Artist by misclicking and settling instead of bombing them. I also lost one Great Artist opportunity when the Great Library in the captured Mali capital spit out a late Great Scientist.

Cultural Victory in 1770AD. And a really good (fun) game.

Apparently, culture was very popular this time around.

Must have been the pseudo-Industrious + Philo combination. I know it sucked me in. This game is a little too far back for me to really remember, but I just checked my submission and reminded myself that this was my earliest culture win up to that point. 1802 AD. I think I decided to try something different and keep teching all the way to Sushi. As stated, the result was good, but not amazingly better.

In fact, I actually finished a HoF game with a 1795 culture victory shortly after that with the more traditional approach.

I took out Mansa somewhat early with the goal of a 9 city empire, rather than 6. I think I ended up with 10 or 11 once the islands were settled.

Settled hammer site. Decided to go for medieval domination victory - mostly xows, trebs, a few macemen later on. I stuck at it despite researching all the way to Sushi. Finally won in 17-something, having taken superconductors with lib the turn before 49 cities - 8 on the Japanese continent, 6 on the Chinese, with Maya the last remaining free nation (they were nearly at gunpowder, to give you an idea of the tech levels). Ending the game with a 44 turn golden age was fun too.

NobleZarkon said:

I settled the Production site aiming for a Cultural victory, forgot how slow the AI is in Noble but having Mansa as a neighbour was a boon. Played pretty lazily whilst watching some sports. With about 50 turns until Culture victory the opportunity for a Religious win presented itself so tweaked some Civics and made some deals leading to an AP win in 1870.

Click to expand...

And I thought I was clever going for religious victory. By the time my huge empire had spread enough Judaism to make victory vote possible I was already researching future tech. I had only 30+ cities but with Mining and Sushi they were mostly monstrous population and production powerhouses. The last turn before the final vote I had 3 missionaries and a spy landed on a Pacal's coastal city, still with too much population to allow a victory vote. And the sneaky AI went theocracy. Fortunately my spy could get him back on organized religion and the 3 missionaries all succeeded which changed the vote balance.
I never declared on anyone. Justinian attacked first and I bribed Mansa to join the war. Eventually I killed him off but before that Sury attacked. Finally I vassaled his last remains. At some point I got tired of Mansa's offers to become a vassal so I took him and he stayed happy and loyal ever since. I had fun privateering his caravels for a long time. Pacal enslaved Toku at some point so I decided against spreading there.