The Deity Challenge Lineup - Game # 5 - The Inca

Ok, I never beat Deity (so, none of the previous challenges), but I'll give this one a go, as I'm comfortable with the Inca.

Settled at the hill on the right (thinking of an observatory later on).
My reasoning: both the Wheat and the Terrace Farm were going to yield the same amount of food by the end, except Wheat's bonuses come earlier. But now, I think I made a mistake, as a Terrace Farm surrounded by two mountains actually gives 1 extra food, doesn't it? Anyway, what's done is done.

Only played until Turn 40 due to a very frustrating behaviour from the AI...

Spoiler :
... I tried to build the Temple of Artemis, and the AI gets it on the turn I was about to get it. I tried to reload Turn 30 to see if I could get it built earlier (the best I can manage is one turn earlier), and lo and behold, the "Faraway Land" manages to beat me to it anyway, ergo, they built it because I was building it. Gee, what a fair mechanic.

Feeling really tempted to go back to Turn 30 and build something else, now that I know building an early Wonder other than Pyramids/Gardens really is factually impossible at Deity.
 
First ever time trying the Deity challenge and was actually my first ever Deity game ever; following today's finish of all victory types on Immortal. I won in 287 Turns via Science. I avoided war completely - zero DoWs due to persistent and desperate bribes to the surrounding Civs and being a major suck-up to Hiawatha in the World Congress. Population and Science is quite low compared to most posted but for my first Deity attempt I'm happy to win first and foremost and under 300 turns is pretty good going for a newb like me, so I'm chuffed. Interested to see how everyone else does it and how quick people can get CVs on that map.
Story:
Spoiler :
Early game I focused on raising cash to buy hill tiles, namely the ones with the most mountains asap. Within 90 turns I bribed Mongolia to take on Assyria and that war lasted a good good 70+ turns; initially I thought the 13 GPT was pricey but it ended up being a solid deal considering the time it lasted. I got NC after my 3rd city - derped a little bit, I had told myself to settle the spot once NC has finished and with turns remaining I accidentally forgot this mental note and settled Machu prematurely. I'm sure that set me back a decent amount as I got NC about 11 turns later than originally planned (T74ish versus T85 or so). Going into midgame I hit Renaissance around T128 and grabbed Observatories in all 3 cities - buying it in my second city as it had lower production than Machu. Beelined Public Schools and Industrialisation whilst stealing techs like Chemistry and Fertlizer. This set me up for a pretty good (at least for me) T200 checkpoint of around 650 BPT and 2/3 factories finished. I popped around 4 GS to race to T220 satellites but I'm unsure if that was a rookie mistake as the end game felt very slow; perhaps saving them for Particle physics and Nanotech would have served for a better time. Advice on that would be great for future games. From then it was simply a waiting game; T220 satellites followed by Atomic Theory and 2 safeguard nukes meant that I comfortably scared the other Civs into peace with my nukes. Around T260 Russia looked like they were going to attack but conveniently a random Missile Cruiser i was building popped up and scared their carriers away by the looks of it. Quite a fun game diplomatically; many bribes meant that the only nuisance was Ashurbanipal spamming citadels on Machu which meant for the last 35-50 turns went slow in that city. (see picture link)

http://imgur.com/XAgpy5M
 
Why fight when I can build terrace farms?

to t150
Spoiler :

This session was bricks and mortar. I missed the Hagia Sophia by one turn, so decided to basically avoid religion this game. By t150 I still don't have a religion in any of my cities ... :lol:

I don't really see a reason to fight, especially since the cities with the good wonders are not in the hands of my neighbours. Speaking of the good wonders, I built one that I almost never get.



Normally I like to go Chemistry before Sci Meth, but here we have plenty of hammers already.

Sci Meth was researched on t143 with is pretty early for me. Building schools coordinated to finish for a charge at the worlds fair in 8 turns.

Since I had the happiness I added a sixth city. Solid game at t150. Beakers aplenty.


 
Spoiler :
Hmmm... had some scary moments, but the terrain was very defensive.

Turns out bribing Ashur to make peace with Monaco early on with a whopping 16gpt was the right choice... Genghis took the CS to the southeast of Russia which earned him denouncements, which I was happy to join in and got friendship with both my neighbors. Had to block Monaco from being taken by the Mongols with my own slingers and units, putting me in the red with that CS for a long time.

Nonetheless had an ideal opening game with HUGE capitol size and production; delayed expanding until maybe Hagia or so, and chose not the best spots, but the most defensive ones.

Spoiler :

btw, look at the runaway... size 21 at t80... with Petra, ToA, HG AND desert folklore... on desert terrain with oasis and desert hills... wow... He ended the game at size 46 and was very much the source of my headache the whole game.

Spoiler :

On the other hand look at the civ that's usually the runaway, that failed to runaway this time and was a non-factor all game science or culture-wise. Size 10 at t110+.... And that, kids, is why you don't open liberty/honor mix and build Pyras and Zeus early if you want to win.

Spoiler :

@t150... Sistine, Pisa, Oracle, Hagia and Boro... and about to get PT. Very much happy.

Spoiler :

Scariest part of the game was around t210+ or so when Mongols got wiped out and I no longer had a patsy to redirect my neighbors' aggression (even though I had built them both landmarks... I was the lone Freedom.... again... seriously the devs need to adjust the flavor of AI to pick Order less and Freedom more... just to balance the trees a little bit because as it is Order is by far the easiest tree to play)...

Rome also picked this time to denounce me... and Cathy soon followed... When my friend Assur asked me to backstab Brazil (who denounced Rome after Rome denounced me and earned counter-denouncements from Rome's friends) with a denouncement... it was painful, but I had to say yes. Turned out to be correct.... Had some scary moments where I had to rush build military when my diplomat warned that Cathy launched an attack and I couldn't bribe her to attack anyone, but in the end it turned out everyone went for Brazil instead of me. Btw it seems the penalty for denouncing a friend does wear off with time, unlike DoWing a friend which seems to last forever.

Spoiler :

Generally 555 tourism at t245 means the end of the game in a CV, but Rome was such a huge runaway I couldn't finish him off with bombs, so I had to wait... (and also for the diplomatic situations to improve a bit)... Scary part is Russia was going for the spaceship.

Spoiler :

I hung on and once the denouncements expired, everyone was back to singing Kumbayah with me again... even Brazil who got so weakened by the wars he had to feign friendliness with me.

Spoiler :

But eventually, after 6 GM (not atomic, although I'm sure most people would consider them a solution to a heavy runaway) bombs, Rome succumbed. Cathy had 5 SS parts up at the end of the game while Rome and Korea had 2-3 each. The AIs tech speeds were for the most part very fast compared to other games. All the civs at this point are in info era, even Assyria.

Spoiler :

68k for Rome... and I was rather unlucky to miss out Uffizi to Rome, Globe and Louvre to Brazil, and didn't get any landmarks near the capitol... so my only theming wonder was Sistine, Hermitage, Oxford, and Museum. Even missed Sydney to Rome... Very lucky science-lover Russia took Great Firewall, which prevented Rome from getting it, ensuring with a victory (could've sniped it with a faith GE, but I decided the faith has to be spent on GMs to stand a chance) btw I built Forbidden Palace at t260-ish :lol: no one liked Patronage.

Spoiler :

Yes, that is a manufactory you're seeing (had a GE spawn late game with no wonders left)... a good chunk of my tourism is from foreign exchange students who come to my academies apparently. Did not bulb a single GS all this game.
 
After seeing your games i am inclined to replay the maps because its seems that i have been very unlucky with the wonders.

Never saw so much early wonders being build by the AI. It seems that they all teched differently and instantly build all the wonders -.-

I was even the first to reach printing press but building Pisa in 9 turns was far to slow apparently and all the other wonders (even Sistine, Forbidden Palace and the low prioriy wonders) were build very close to getting the tech and i was not very slow with tech -.-

Well lets see if i got more time this weekend ;)
 
Olodune said:
Why fight when I can build terrace farms?
Click to expand...

Because fighting is cool; farming not so much but yeah I admit that the sane option here would've been hugging the mountains with plows but I tend to avoid those these days. For one thing my game will last forever, again.

Fire0rb said:
After seeing your games i am inclined to replay the maps because its seems that i have been very unlucky with the wonders.
Click to expand...

Spoiler :

Might be just me but managing only Oracle before PT is pretty much the std in my games so nothing seems out of ordinary given that with this kind of start one has a fair shot for wonders if that's the plan.
In my game Hiawatha & Sejong are the hamsters and the rest are split fairly evenly. The weird thing is that the Mongols have dominant religion which ultimately screwed my shot at it as Cathy & Hammy didn't even bother with pantheon and all the religious CSs are on the other side of the continent.

Hiawatha leads in everything but tech which belongs to Sejong while Rome is doing exceptionally well. I've see peaceful games before but this is ridiculous - the only only wars up to T150 have been the 2 paid by me and one started by me and Genghis has only DoWed a CS twice.
Korea is going for SV like Rome which is hiding in the corner with just 3 three cities. Korea has few more but both have lands to expand to. Hiawatha has 10 cities out which 5 are larger than my capital. Pedro and & the rest are doing something but it's not clear yet what. Hammu & Genghis are no problem whatever they do but Cathy might be a troublemaker especially after befrinding with Sejong and having GW for defense.



Started again & quit after ten turns to do something else - anything else.

Found a way out of the jungles and planted a 2nd citadel by Akwesasme which, by the looks of it got pillaged by a trebuchet stepping over the river on the same turn bu the main thing is to reduced the pop in the city so it's ok.
Wellington's pearls are pillaged a turn after I get them by someone - your guess is as good as mine - while Hiawatha's allies have no trouble at all swarming the lands & seas of Machu and out of 2 new allies he got they just happened to be the two I had my scouts near enough to be killed so as always the disparity between the CSs allies started to annoy me a bit when on T158 I hit Industrial.
Obviously I had no coal but luckily Wellington had so I paid for the instant mine on T159, got my 7 coal, bought a factory & started building other 3 until on T160 some &%/¤#¤¤¤(# peasant had farmed my coal so the plan of building factories is slightly delayed.

At this point it's safe to say that I won't finish this game today.
 
Might be just me but managing only Oracle before PT is pretty much the std in my games so nothing seems out of ordinary given that with this kind of start one has a fair shot for wonders if that's the plan.
Click to expand...

Spoiler :
You are right i seldomly build any wonders but with this production heavy start it would have been possible and wonders like Sistine or Pisa are not often build immediatly by the AI. But in my game Oracle was gone before i build NC (T67) Hagia, Borobodur short after and Sistine Forbidden palace, alhambra, notre etc gone as soon as i reached the tech (which is normal on deity but sometimes you can reach key techs before the AI). I was able to be the first with printing press but as i wrote i could not even Pisa in 9 Turns as the AI caught up and instantly finished it 4 Turns before me.

But i will stop whining. I finished the game in an adequate time but i am not satisfied :(
 
I wanted to ask a question; I have linked my screenie of a SV on this challenge above; however my population is pitiful compared to most of you. What did I neglect to be 9-15 population behind on capital?! Must be a pretty glaring oversight, but I'm clueless as to how I was so far behind on growth. I built terraces everywhere; did you guys use a large amount of internal food routes? bribed many mercantile CS?
 
HollowRain said:
I wanted to ask a question; I have linked my screenie of a SV on this challenge above; however my population is pitiful compared to most of you. What did I neglect to be 9-15 population behind on capital?! Must be a pretty glaring oversight, but I'm clueless as to how I was so far behind on growth. I built terraces everywhere; did you guys use a large amount of internal food routes? bribed many mercantile CS?
Click to expand...

-Adopt tradition for growth
-Work the food tiles
-Internal trade routes
-Food buildings
-Ally with maritime city states
-Also there are some policies that really help in the ideological tenants. Freedom has one where specialists only consume half the food or something like that. And order has one that increases food on all internal trade routes.
 
Acken said:
I like FFsplit since it's free and pretty functional so far. I guess for a more professional use you'd need a true capture device but it does the job so far.
Click to expand...

Does FFsplit let you record in full screen mode? I watched a little bit of your Babylon game and thought the capture quality was really nice.
 
I wanted to ask a question; I have linked my screenie of a SV on this challenge above; however my population is pitiful compared to most of you. What did I neglect to be 9-15 population behind on capital?! Must be a pretty glaring oversight, but I'm clueless as to how I was so far behind on growth. I built terraces everywhere; did you guys use a large amount of internal food routes? bribed many mercantile CS?
Click to expand...

DingleBirdy mentioned already nearly all of it but he missed a very important one:

We Love the King Day.

The increase of WLTKD is immense and worth a lot of gpt / luxes if you can afford it.
Otherwise regarding this game: Due to the mightyness of the Terrace Farms you are able to focus entirely on food and still get big amounts of hammers.
The Aqueduct (and later Med Labs) are needed asap to ensure growth esp. in late game.
In my game there were 6 alive maritime CS which can feed your capital big time if you constantly ally them T150+.

With 3 cities you should have at least 4 internal trade routes if not 6 to cover all your cities twice but at least your capital should get 2 caravans from your two satellite cities.

Freedom can really boost your growth if you have a small empire and dont need the other bonusses science- or military-wise.


@DingleBirdy

Do you play your own challenges actually because i dont saw any finishing screens yet if i remember correctly? ;) (absolutely no criticism just interest, keep it going so well)
 
DingleBirdy said:
-Adopt tradition for growth
-Work the food tiles
-Internal trade routes
-Food buildings
-Ally with maritime city states
-Also there are some policies that really help in the ideological tenants. Freedom has one where specialists only consume half the food or something like that. And order has one that increases food on all internal trade routes.
Click to expand...


Ah, I was slow on internal routes and the maritime alliances were non-existant. I should keep that in mind.
 
DingleBirdy said:
-Adopt tradition for growth
-Work the food tiles
-Internal trade routes
-Food buildings
-Ally with maritime city states
-Also there are some policies that really help in the ideological tenants. Freedom has one where specialists only consume half the food or something like that. And order has one that increases food on all internal trade routes.
Click to expand...

Also remember to trigger WLTKD. It's 25% growth boosty
 
Fire0rb said:
DingleBirdy mentioned already nearly all of it but he missed a very important one:

We Love the King Day.

The increase of WLTKD is immense and worth a lot of gpt / luxes if you can afford it.
Otherwise regarding this game: Due to the mightyness of the Terrace Farms you are able to focus entirely on food and still get big amounts of hammers.
The Aqueduct (and later Med Labs) are needed asap to ensure growth esp. in late game.
In my game there were 6 alive maritime CS which can feed your capital big time if you constantly ally them T150+.

With 3 cities you should have at least 4 internal trade routes if not 6 to cover all your cities twice but at least your capital should get 2 caravans from your two satellite cities.

Freedom can really boost your growth if you have a small empire and dont need the other bonusses science- or military-wise.


@DingleBirdy

Do you play your own challenges actually because i dont saw any finishing screens yet if i remember correctly? ;) (absolutely no criticism just interest, keep it going so well)
Click to expand...

I remembered WLtKD right after I left my computer. The 25% growth for 20 turns is huge, and it's really awesome when your cities want a luxury that isn't on the map:lol: Also, no I don't submit my games. I play them, but I read through all the spoilers so I end up knowing way too much that I shouldn't know. I really enjoy doing this though.
 
Afaik its not possible to get a WLTKD when the ressource is not even available on the map (like Indonesia special thingys). Mostly its on the map but not yet improved or the AI is not willing to improve/trade it.
The worst thing i got was that the WC did ban a luxury and then you need that luxury for your WLTKD and you can only get it if you improve it yourself or revoke the WC edict.
 
Update to turn 150

Spoiler :
Right out of the gate I discovered Catherine to my east. I know how she likes to runaway late so my early plan was to knock her down. I stole some workers from her, signed a peace treaty in hopes she would build some wonders for me as I grew my army. Built a bunch of slingers and teched to construction around turn 50 then declared war. I was able to take St Petersburg relatively fast. I figured the same for Moscow, but that was not the case. I spent about 40 turns killing off her units before I was finally able to move my hoard of composites within range. Near the end of the fight I paid Genghis to go after Cathy as well. I took Moscow by turn 110. Genghis by this point had captured Mombasa, Hanoi, Ife, Monaco, then captured Cathy's last city.

I already had my units surrounding Novgrod (Cathy's last city now owned by the Mongols) and declared war on Genghis. That city went down in one turn so I recalled Cathy to life. The turn before we were at war and the next we were allied for life lol. I think that's a first for me.

After starting the war with Genghis I captured Mombasa and Hanoi and liberated both. Captured a Mongol city, razed, skipped over Beshbalik and headed straight for Karkorum. My heavily upgraded xbows took that city pretty fast. Then I went up to Monaco which was now the capital and took that city. In the peace treaty I was able to liberate Ife as well. So just fighting Genghis I was able to gain four allied city states and a wonderful friendship with Cathy.

So here's where I stand right now. I just used oxford to bulb industrialization. I didn't have any coal so I had to improve it in a city states borders. I am now building factories in three cities which means I should have an ideology by turn 162. I want to go to war with Assyria, but I have a research agreement due in nine turns. I hate the thought of waiting nine extra turns to continue my campaign, but I'm doing so bad in tech right now that I pretty much need to hit the brakes. I'm also unsure which ideology to chose. I am thinking about autocracy, but the thought of getting 6 free foreign legions from Freedom seems awfully tempting by turn 162.

I'm going to save up a little money and upgrade a bunch of xbows to gatling guns. I will decide what I want to do in the next few turns. I will give another update with pics later.
 
Turn 298 Science Victory. Pretty sick start considering all those mountains and rivers.

Spoiler :




Spoiler :

Three cities, no wars the entire game, I kept Mongolia, Russia and Brazil busy by making them fight each other. Originally I wanted to go all peaceful and scientific up until Flight and Bombers, but then I got to there and I decided to go science instead. I think I had Flight around turn 170 or 180 (I was 2nd in Ideologies and I got there by getting Flight) but I decided to go for Scientific Victory because I really don't like how drawn out domination games become, especially if you like starting it as late as you can like me. Anyway, I went for Full Tradition, Honor opener (completely wasted considering I didnt do anything with it, could have gone Patronage maybe), Commerce opener (the policy before Rationalism opener), then into Rationalism and Secularism. After that, I went into Order, and finished Rationalism after getting Spaceflight Pioneers. I think I had Education at turn 117 and Public Schools around 150.

The actual game finished in 301 though, since I wanted to send a missile cruiser loaded with a nuclear missile to nuke Brazil's capital. After that I also nuked Moscow before exiting the game :D
 
Fire0rb said:
Afaik its not possible to get a WLTKD when the ressource is not even available on the map (like Indonesia special thingys). Mostly its on the map but not yet improved or the AI is not willing to improve/trade it.
The worst thing i got was that the WC did ban a luxury and then you need that luxury for your WLTKD and you can only get it if you improve it yourself or revoke the WC edict.
Click to expand...

After 2 WLTKD cycles my capitol wanted SALT of all things (and to the end of the game I never connected it) turns out the map only had one copy to the southeast which NO ONE settled until Russia got there t250+

So yeah, luck is involved a lot. (unlike other people though I felt I didn't have enough copper copies to make it worth it and picked fertility rites + swords to plowshares + divine inspiration)
 
Peaceful terrace farmers go to Space (t229)

Spoiler :


With early schools and a rush bought university in city 6, Oxford is used to get an early t175 plastics. At this point I still hadn't decided on a SV (missed Pisa and Porcelain (by 1 turn)). I could shift into bombers ... but there is limited oil. Ok, space then.

Plastics at t175:



And the launch (t229):



Thoughts

- This is a much easier map than the last one. Other than some Ideological pressure there were no late game issues (passed World Ideo: Order late). I played it safe enough that an unexpected DoW would be easily turned aside.

- I thought about going for Acken's Commerce/Freedom strategy but I didn't have the culture (or faith) to make it a realistic option, so a good old fashioned Order attempt here. Even so I had just enough culture to get Spaceflight Pioneers early enough.

- For a game without a religion and very few wonders I am happy enough with the effort. Only one cultural CS ally and no mercantiles.

- Genghis is a diplomatic hate magnet and makes the diplomacy a breeze. I only started one war (a mid Industrial Mongol <-> Assyrian affair for 4 GPT).
 
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