The Deity Challenge Lineup - Game #10 - Polynesia

Congrats to the winners!
Spoiler :
I restarted and swam my Settler S to Sri Padra and planted expo a la Skark Diver's open. Swam E and got 2 luxes near my 1st attempt capitol. 4th city went 2 tiles E of Lake Victoria. Dropped a 5th 2 tiles SE of marble near Mogadishu. This may have been a mistake, as it will slow my already horrible Natl Wonder pace.

This game is hilarious - Oda hit Modern while I still had some Archers. I have 1 gifted XB, rest are CBs. I have been stuck at 15-20% behind in tech. Maois really kill production and growth. I only have one Pub School so far, no Factories yet, they take 20+ turns.

I am actually glad to not be into Ideologies yet on t233, because I will likely get killed by influence or military when I commit. Freedom is still open, Oda and Dido went Order, Shaka and Cas went Autocracy. (I have never been worse than 3rd to Ideologies on Immortal or Diety, and am almost always first.) Oda is really killing it, and Dido has dozens of cities. Most of her expos on the new continent are as big as mine even though I was way earlier.

Did Tradition with Honor open early, 2 in Rat, 1 left in Aesthetics. Religion is alright, but the only faith I have is from One with Nature and one Shrine, LOL. I lucked out on some quests and coups, so have had 2 Merc allies much of the game, plus Mogadishu. I actually just won the latest leader vote, which is hilarious.

Cas has 20 wonders, more than I have ever seen one civ get. Monte was dead from Shaka long ago, Liz and Inca were curb stomped early. Constant wars are cool, I haven't funded any. It is going to take forever to get Hotels and Flight!

I am tempted to restart yet again and delete the extra AI settlers. This map would be a ton of fun at Immortal level.
 
consentient said:
To this end, I am offering my services as caretaker host for the near future. I have a stable life and will be able to post (and play) a new map every 2 weeks, and (I think) to keep them interesting for the community at large.
Click to expand...

Fine by me whether it turns out to be a temporary or permanent solution. The main issue is still securing series.

bigwillystyle said:
This is not a map critique btw grendeldef, this was a fun map to try and I appreciate having had the experience. Tried a few new things
Click to expand...

None taken and if someone's trying out new things a DCL has served a purpose, to a lesser degree anyway and it'd be stupid to avoid expressing displeasure with a map/Civ/combo of those/whatever in relation to any DCL - world has enough Yes (wo)men already. I just currently wish that I'll find to finish my game before Friday as I surely have no time to start the next one anytime soon.

Shark Diver said:
Have you guys given any thought to getting the finishers spreadsheet updated?
Click to expand...

Haven't given it much thought but something like...

1) create new account for the new document
2) copy Dingle's input & continue there, new stuff may be added if someone is willing to
3) share the account pw with one or more regulars so in case of one absentee all is not lost. Regulars can be either the series players and also, preferrably participants willing, some of CFC stuff like Browd and Hammer. Neither has been submitting results but I assume they're both following the series.
The editing part can still be mainly a one man's task but just being aware of the pw shouldn't be too hard of a burden so I could volunteer for being one.

...looks simple enough.
 
I'm glad to see others volunteering to keep the series going. My preferences for civs/maps are probably obvious - civs we haven't played yet on the DCL or ICL, and maps that give some kind of nod to any UU/UA. Rome was tough, but at least had some iron. But sticking Captain Underpants in a starting location with not even a triple Maoi site nearby removes a lot of the fun for me. This is one of my favorite civs, I am addicted to Maoi spam! I have never lost in like 4 Diety games with him going for a CV.
 
Shark Diver said:
Congrats on your textbook victory F.A. I'm laughing at the screenshot of Dido's impressive navy sitting around useless.
Click to expand...

Spoiler :
Thanks for that but Im not so sure how textbook that game was lol!! I did some unusual things and really had to keep changing my plan. I always feel like Im losing even on the easier maps but time after time I see that victory screen and realize that this game is really set up for us all to win, we just have to find the many roads to victory.

Congrats to your win as well once again. You pumped out alot of victories in a short span of time! It is bad enough for me sometimes to wait 3-5 turns to settle my cap and you and others waited even longer. That is impressive. In hindsight I think I could of went SV as well like you did and saved myself alot of trouble but since I went Full Honor I felt like I needed to war the whole game to get all that gold for each unit killed.

About Dido's Navy. In that last pic that was a very small amount of her ships. Id say that may have only been 30-35% of her Navy :) I'm just glad her Capital wasn't all the way on the other Cont. or I would of had to either go SV or resign.


Even though I cried every turn I played this game and on every post I think it is important to have these maps mixed in with the easier ones maybe 3 to 1 ratio. I think Grendeldef is very good at making a map/game that really is brutal so when it is time for these kind of maps I think Gren should submit. This map wasn't as tough as that GOTM awhile back on Deity for a CV only. That was tough and I think only 3 people submitted a win.

Just a Thought: I used to play alot of Black Hawk Down years ago when it first came out. After awhile I found a group that had a website that tracked everything in your game and you earned medals and rank and it was pretty cool to see your progress. (Somehow all the stats were linked in your game and they posted on the site after each battle. Sort of like how Steam has the achievements connected to this game) Im not saying that you guys should duplicate that but it would be nice to see stats/awards of our games. If anyone wants to do something like that I have the free time to track it and write it up. I just need to learn how to share the files with who is in charge and how to post them.
 
Shark Diver said:
Have you guys given any thought to getting the finishers spreadsheet updated?
Click to expand...

Yes, if everyone is happy for me to be the host I can copy the info to a new document and keep it updated.

Fluphen Azine said:
I think it is important to have these maps mixed in with the easier ones maybe 3 to 1 ratio. I think Grendeldef is very good at making a map/game that really is brutal so when it is time for these kind of maps I think Gren should submit.
Click to expand...

A great idea. It could maybe be argued that there are three approximate levels to Deity games, which I previously defined as 'accessible' (immortal players have a good shout, which promotes the DCL to more new players); 'medium' (Deity players both seasoned and newbies should enjoy the map, but the former should manage competently, whereas it will be a challenge for the latter); and 'rock hard' (a real challenge only likely to be completed by dedicated and experienced Deity players).

If the community likes this idea, I am happy to contribute maps for all levels, but if Grendel wants to be part-time host, knowing he has 6 weeks to choose each new 'uber-challenge', that's even better! And if anyone wants to 'make it a threesome' by co-hosting level 1 or 2, then I would be happiest of all, knowing that the challenge would then truly be catering to all levels.

In the meantime, I've got a great map for Friday and you guys can judge me by what you find therein. I've been disabling the map packs regularly for a couple of months now, but it's annoying to have to do it every time. Does anyone know a 'hack' for the mac that turns them off permanently, or perhaps moves them to a temporary folder so they are gone, but not irretrievable?
 
I'm hearing no objections, so it looks like the two of you have your mandate. Big thanks for doing the work on the spreadsheet.

I don't suppose we'll be getting a hint as to what civ Friday will bring us or which of the suggested levels the map will be? Nah, keep it a surprise, I won't be able to play until a few days later anyways as I've yet to get my Mac to work underwater.

PS. I like the idea of different levels. I came to the series, and Deity play, later than most here, and I know I'd have been somewhat discouraged if all of the games resulted in the psychological ordeal that Rome was for me.
 
Do you suggest 3 maps (according to difficulty) all on one Friday?

If so then my suggestion is to leave it as it is now but if you think the map is really hard only then maybe add another easier map for the rest to play at the same time. No need for 3 maps/difficulties imo.
 
Nigel_Tufnel2 said:
My preferences for civs/maps are probably obvious - civs we haven't played yet on the DCL or ICL, and maps that give some kind of nod to any UU/UA.
Click to expand...

An unused civ for a new DCL should be a given - the synergy between map, opponents could vary in degree.

Fluphen Azine said:
Even though I cried every turn I played this game and on every post I think it is important to have these maps mixed in with the easier ones maybe 3 to 1 ratio. I think Grendeldef is very good at making a map/game that really is brutal so when it is time for these kind of maps I think Gren should submit.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the credit but I feel it's undeserved. The Art of rolling a bad map isn't that hard learn. The logic(?) behind the past two DCL maps was something like pick a civ, pick a map (cooked in Rome's case) which gives something to the UA and then roll a bad start. Without playing it at least 50 or so turns it's impossible to tell for sure how it'll work.
I have no doubt that others are equally capable of rolling bad maps but the temptation of rather playing a good(ish) map just gets overwhelming at times. I'm just far more unlikely to continue from a good start than most of the peeps here, I assume. Besides everyone is still encouraged to submit maps with DCL potential so I'll stay out of regularly posting a map business but I'd welcome maps like the current DCL every now & then.

consentient said:
If the community likes this idea, I am happy to contribute maps for all levels, but if Grendel wants to be part-time host, knowing he has 6 weeks to choose each new 'uber-challenge', that's even better! And if anyone wants to 'make it a threesome' by co-hosting level 1 or 2, then I would be happiest of all, knowing that the challenge would then truly be catering to all levels.
Click to expand...

This could be read in different ways but I hope no one is suggesting more than a biweekly map. Variety is fine but hard to determine just by T0 picture so unless one plays them through in advance we're somewhat at the mercy of luck. Cooking settings helps to overcome the lack of luck but as long as we're not swimming in salt beside FoY and Skilldorado every time it's fine.

Shark Diver said:
I don't suppose we'll be getting a hint as to what civ Friday will bring us or which of the suggested levels the map will be?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't mind knowing/publishing the civ and/or map type in advance if the next DCL map is already selected. For those of us who barely play any other games than the DCLs it doesn't make much difference but those who have time to play more may want to avoid that particular civ for a while. Also with the ICL & ECL going on it might make some sense to avoid running same civs with different xCL.
Giving away the level of the challenge in OT is a discretionary call - I don't mind either way but that's what the spoilers are for.
 
And I even managed to play few turns last night - T250 and things are looking slightly better.

Spoiler :


So T207 Oda is free to DoW Dido again and it only cost me 9 gpt. Meanwhile selling stuff to Oda & borrowing from him until he ran out of cash to upgrade XBows and buy a Privateer was few turns enough but Aotearoa looked like a gonner so I was planning to sell it Shaka as it seemed the only way to get him in war against Dido. Luckily before selling workshop and disbanding the city I checked what Dido was up to..




...yup, white peace the turn before capture with a wide smile on her face. The pic is missing 2 Frigates & an Ironclad in range before the peace deal.




More goodies to come on the same turn - this is what Dido asked for DoWing Shaka; not exactly a hard to decision to pay up.


T226 bribed Oda to DoW Shaka yet again, T228 found Belgrade as the last CS, T230 refused Shaka's DoF offer, T233 Eiffel in Honolulu and stole flight from Oda and was catching up with tech, T236 natural GA started which will be boosted with quite a few GArtists as I'm seriously lacking income partly because Shaka & Oda are embargoed due to Dido controlling the WC, T237 time to pay Oda again to DoW Dido which was even cheaper this time, T244 Plastics & Louvre in Honolulu.





This is how the world looks at T250. Finally the cities are growing and I have the happiness to support it. Intercepting Monte's cargo ships is a nice boost but it took ~150 turns too long to get there. Monte & Lizzy have been basically teching by stealing from me at few moments ago Shaka got caught, too so I'll DoW him soon.

T251 Grand Temple but I've avoided converting anything with missionaries or prophets and faith has been used for Pagodas - not a sensible decision but one of those I made before the game. Not even most of my own cities follow Tengriism but I can't be helped.
T253 bribed Dido to DoW Shaka as she made peace with Oda and that's were I left the game.

Oda is capturing Shaka's cities with decent pace so I'm hoping to hop in the bandwagon just before Ulundi and snatch it on same turn. The problem is that I can't reach it with GWBs and I don't have much of melee units either. The shortage of oil made me postponing military units of all sorts against the earlier plan of taking Shaka's cities and selling them right away to Oda or Dido - atm I'd rather build the missing infra.
Dido is still friendly but quite a few red modifiers due to ideology & pretty much every WC vote. DoF with Oda but he's supposedly plotting against me. Shaka is friendly but that's irrelevant by now while Pacha is neutral & Lizzy guarded and if I had more stuff to sell I'd be more interested in their opinions.

I can see this ending at some point but it'll be way after T300 and I think I'll keep the record intact & go for Domination.


 
Shark Diver said:
I don't suppose we'll be getting a hint as to what civ Friday will bring us or which of the suggested levels the map will be?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't mind knowing/publishing the civ and/or map type in advance if the next DCL map is already selected. For those of us who barely play any other games than the DCLs it doesn't make much difference but those who have time to play more may want to avoid that particular civ for a while. Also with the ICL & ECL going on it might make some sense to avoid running same civs with different xCL.
Giving away the level of the challenge in OT is a discretionary call - I don't mind either way but that's what the spoilers are for.
Click to expand...

I am completely indifferent on this. I can give hints, full disclosure, or maintain complete silence, depending on what people want. Some people like surprises, some don't. And I especially support Grendel's point about avoiding a civ that you will be playing soon.

sun8119 said:
Do you suggest 3 maps (according to difficulty) all on one Friday?

If so then my suggestion is to leave it as it is now but if you think the map is really hard only then maybe add another easier map for the rest to play at the same time. No need for 3 maps/difficulties imo.
Click to expand...

Grendeldef said:
This could be read in different ways but I hope no one is suggesting more than a biweekly map. Variety is fine but hard to determine just by T0 picture so unless one plays them through in advance we're somewhat at the mercy of luck. Cooking settings helps to overcome the lack of luck but as long as we're not swimming in salt beside FoY and Skilldorado every time it's fine.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear: I am NOT talking about more than one map. What I am suggesting is that one map is say level 2 (medium), then 2 weeks later there is a level 1 (comparatively easy, but I should say that no map I ever choose will be TOO easy), then 2 weeks later Grendel can choose a 'toughie' for us. Or if he is unavailable, I will choose one that I think the better players would appreciate. That's my suggestion.

Since Rome was probably a level 2 and Polynesia a level 3, I am certainly not picking a level 3 for Friday, that's one thing you can know without a hint ;)

IMPORTANT: All DCL maps, comments and suggestions can be sent to: deitychallenge@outlook.com
 
t284 - ffffff******cccccckkkkkk!
Spoiler :
So I actually started to think I might win this game. Went Freedom and have not been DOW'd by anyone. Sitting here on edge waiting for my first faith GE to hit (now) so I can build SoL. I'm also 2 turns away from a natural GE. And Pac builds it, beats me by one freaking turn. This is my 2nd Freedom game where I barely missed it. What's the freaking point of Freedom w/o it? His city is almost inaccessible, so no way to take it. (I am still sailing Triremes and garrisoned with CB anyway, LOL.)

Once Hotels hit my tourism went to the moon. Still no Factories on the other continent, so they took forever to build. I have strung 3 straight long GAges since I hit Flight (UnivSuff), so am banking serious cash with all my Maois. Just now hit Chemistry and Fert, so things are finally humming. Neuschwanstein in easy reach, Broadway available. And now this. What a waste of time.

Oda is outpacing me in Tourism 176-151 and has a sizable culture lead, and I am staying about even currently. He has 25 wonders and recently built Apollo. Shaka has Louvre (?) which Oda will take eventually, Dido has Eiffel, so Oda has all the rest to theme. He has 27 cities on his continent and 21 on the other, and will have like 9 more of Dido's in a while, and I still see Settlers swimming. His happiness is 79, LOL.

There are almost no Arti sites left. I am heading for Airports first instead of Internet, as I passed Scholars in Residence. Dido banned 2 of Oda's luxes, so my WLTK's are done in cap.

I bribed Shaka to Dow Cas with one city after Oda's tromp (Cas was Autocracy), and now Shaka flipped from Autocracy to Order with Oda and Dido. I will likely get a triple DOW soon.
 
Up to T300, looking better than on T200 but hardly good and with some luck I might be able to finish this one later today.

Spoiler :




T258 RR, T259 faith GE for Kremlin, T263 DoWed Shaka a bit too late but still took Ulundi, barely, on the next turn as managed to screw Oda's path there on previous turns and to celebrate this I paid Oda to DoW Dido.
T268 Dido captured my Vilnius for no apparent reason and got a nice foothold but she offered DoF on next turn which I took as it seemed like the safest options at that point and it gave an opportunity to backstab Dido for once.
T271 Japan won IG and it's tourism went through the roof. T274 Oda & T275 Dido went Atomic with Radar, T278 got bored with Monte and wiped him off so naturally Dido backstabbed on next turn. T282 bulbed Radar & Combined Arms and got on par with Japanese tech so my spying mission got a reset, two turns later Oda build Manhattan & 4 turns later Apollo, lovely.
T291 Pentagon as I really couldn't affor upgrades without it, T294 48 turn GA sadly ends and Dido turns hostile and I got denounced by others. The crappiest part was Shaka making peace with Oda & Dido leaving him with only one city which I didn't dare to take so instead of taking few nice cities & selling them for much need cash I was forced to a white peace.
T299 Oxforded Satellites and Dido joined the Manhattan club.

Next to happen is Hubble in few turns, once again pay for Dido vs Oda which by now has more instances than Rocky. By the looks of it SV seems easier & especially faster than Dom but I'm not sure if I want to go that way. My army is not even half of what Dido has and Oda seems to have more planes than I have units but interestingly by far the greatest threat to losing this one is Oda's Culture victory.



=============== add. ==============

Started the last stint domination in mind but ended up with Science on T339 so new record in slowness with a new type of VC.
Nothing spectacular in later turns and only took one more capital just to have something to do. I'll add pics & few words in the morning.
 
t351 DV - I CAN'T BELIEVE IT! My rival had 112 cities.
Spoiler :
Wow, what a game. I was able to buy 4 votes each from my Freedom compatriots Pac and Liz. Liz has never been a buddy, ever, in any game. I had no DOF's all game, I guess they just appreciated my blue jeans? I never leveled up spies - didn't want the diplo hit stealing, and had no techs to steal much of the game, so just went for influence. Oda was couping like a madman, but of course sitting on 35k cash. :rolleyes:

Oda was crazy - 112 cities, 20x my production, 6x my pop, 8x my GNP, etc, etc. He never DOW'd me, my only red marks were for Ideology and for a while when I spread Taoism to one of his cities to try to get the Itin Preacher ball rolling better on the other landmass.

He just plowed through everybody. Once or twice he stopped after taking a capital, but often just kept steamrolling. Everybody hated him the whole game, and I assume since my cap was far away and I was such a ready customer for his lux, he stayed Friendly. I sold him a ton of aluminum and uranium - I was unlikely to use them, and needed constant cash to gain CS influence. I got several border warnings, in part because we had a lot of border overseas, but of course I was just passing through.

Went for CV the whole way, Maois everywhere - even on top of luxes late-game. I had the tech lead for about 5 turns. Went for Hotels, then Airports, then Internet and Globalization. Wasted time teching to get Neuschwanstein, but Sri Pada is not a mountain, grrrr. I only themed Broadway and one Museum, I did get SOH and HG in cap (I was the only Tradition player), and PT in 1st expo. [edit - and CR in cap]

I hit him with 3 GM bombs for 12k+ each, and only got up to 87% - he had 113k culture, and won all the late game culture quests (I won the mid-game ones). He had -143 dissident unhappiness, but +35 overall. I did have him -20s for a turn, but he popped right back up. Same with tourism, I was at 76.8% and next turn dropped to 71.5%, no idea why, no wonders or screen info given. I don't think I could have won a CV - his culture was just too strong.

I did finally get most of my units semi-upgraded, but mil was pathetic. I waited the whole game to get stomped. Shaka DOW'd me late game from his land-locked island LOL, and Dido did too, but at the time she was plenty strong. Lucky war bribes got her fighting Pac and Oda, she would have taken my entire other continent easily.

Biggest mistakes:
- Buying a late Pagoda kept me from getting a faith GE for SoL.
- Bribing Shaka to hit Cas when Cas had only one city... I think it screwed up the influences and so I wasn't applying pressure the same when Cas expired. Earlier it looked like Shaka might flip for me.
- Maybe should have developed more before Maoi spam - growth and production was bad.

Aren't these Maois pretty? I realize I could have put one more on the W end when I converted the spices. Whoops.

 

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^^I can't believe it either.. I have failed a diplomatic victory before by using mare clausum and a 4 city tradition start just like yours. The only difference I see is that oda has a much larger empire which maybe costed him so much gold since my diplomatic victory contender had more gold and kept taking away city states.
 
Nige, I salute you! Looks like you really had to turn things up to 11 to win that one.

One of the things I love most about Civ 5 is how so many things that happen have a contrived lore that goes with them. Many of these make me chuckle. Harun founding Judaism, for example. Gandhi busting out the nukes. Liz going Liberty and being demoted from Sovereign to Chairman or whatever it is (Consul?).

And now the Polynesians feeling so much ennui that they would literally spam their lands with Maois. Since the real life statues were built as a way of expressing the longing for contact with other peoples and wondering if they were all alone on Easter Island, I guess your people must have been really spiritually bereft and secretly longing for Oda to come and colonise them! :p

I jest, congrats again on a top notch victory. :)
 
Thanks, guys. This game was really grueling! Once I hit Internet I switched all specialists from science to gold, plus a couple engineers (my cap still ran all slots, as it was mostly water). Once all money building were done I built cash. My rival did me the favor of killing what was the 3rd place civ the turn of the vote, reducing the total needed from 39 to 38. I only had diplomats in 3 capitals, and didn't have like 4 CS's allied, but when you can get 8 votes for about 50 gpt = win!

Again, I was so surprised how so many of the wars just kept going. My rival is always such a crappy neighbor - I guess I have never had a game where he stayed strong but at a distance. Just like Monte and Khan, great trading partners from afar!
 
Alright it took 2 weeks but we are starting to see some wins here!! Great job to Gren and Nigel! The one question I have for everyone is that I noticed in my game all the way up to turn 392 no Civs even opened Rationalism. In anyone of your games did anyone see the AI getting into this policy? I know that the AI doesn't get into this policy as much but for me not to see one AI getting into it is rare for me. Maybe something happened with the patch but after I read all the updates I did not see anything about changing the way the AI chooses policies.
 
Fluphen Azine said:
The one question I have for everyone is that I noticed in my game all the way up to turn 392 no Civs even opened Rationalism. In anyone of your games did anyone see the AI getting into this policy?
Click to expand...

To be honest, I stop checking AI policies after PT is built for the most part, so I don't recall. I've got a late save from this game, so I'll go back and check.
 
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