Indonesia discussion

It's odd. The Indonesian selection screen says "unique Luxury Resources". If it were a new resource, and it was one that only Indonesia gets, and Indonesia always gets it, then wouldn't the UA description name the resource?

I'm starting to think that Indonesia gets up to 6 copies of some regular luxury that isn't on the map for that particular game. It can't be 6 different luxuries, because on huge maps almost all the luxuries are in play.

The unique Ability is spice islanders though, I'd count that as mentioning a resource (it'd be silly if the spice islands UA was really the copper islands, right?)
 
Off topic but, at 4000 BC when the game started, in real life, Kamehameha and Gajah Mada were actually part of the same civilization. Because that is the approximate date of the start of Austronesian people's expansion from Formosa into Southeast Asia, Madagascar and Pacific ocean.
 
Off topic but, at 4000 BC when the game started, in real life, Kamehameha and Gajah Mada were actually part of the same civilization. Because that is the approximate date of the start of Austronesian people's expansion from Formosa into Southeast Asia, Madagascar and Pacific ocean.

Isn't that the equivalent of saying "in 1500 CE, Elizabeth and Washington were part of the same civ"?
 
So do we by now know how many of those 6 ressources are unique? Couldn't it be the case that every city on a ENTIRELY new continent gives to copies of one to that point unique ressource?
 
I think there's a lot we don't know.

For example, I'm not sure each city requires a unique continent. To me, it sounds like you get the resource as long as they're founded on a continent different from the capital.

We also don't know if we're talking about six new luxuries, three new luxuries, two new luxuries, or six/three/two luxuries you don't have currently but aren't actually new to the game.

Indonesia is the one civ I'd really like Firaxis to explain a little bit more about.
 
I think there's a lot we don't know.

For example, I'm not sure each city requires a unique continent. To me, it sounds like you get the resource as long as they're founded on a continent different from the capital.

We also don't know if we're talking about six new luxuries, three new luxuries, two new luxuries, or six/three/two luxuries you don't have currently but aren't actually new to the game.

Indonesia is the one civ I'd really like Firaxis to explain a little bit more about.

I would like if they talked about Indonesia in-depth. The Candi is clear but I want to know still three pressing questions:

-Luxury resources question
-If it's just one continent, or you have to settle on a new one each time (People seem to be leaning towards the former, but it still has to be confirmed)
-Kris Warrior, how many upgrades they get and what they are
 
Kris Warrior, how many upgrades they get and what they are

In the last gameplay video looks like they get 1 promotion. There's a list of promotions unique for this unit, they get one from the list.
 
In the last gameplay video looks like they get 1 promotion. There's a list of promotions unique for this unit, they get one from the list.

I meant how many upgrades are available for them to randomly upgrade to. We saw three in the video. I wonder if it's just three or if it's four or five or more
 
I meant how many upgrades are available for them to randomly upgrade to. We saw three in the video. I wonder if it's just three or if it's four or five or more

I doubt this changes gameplay too much (unlike other questions). I expect to have around 10 of them.
 
Ya, just to put it down, the three shown promotions are:
Ambition: +50% Combat bonus when attacking. -20% penalty when defending.
Recruitment: Heals all damage if kills non-barbarian unit.
Heroism: ?
I wonder if there'll be any crossover with the Zulu UB? I know one of theirs is bonus to flanking vs gunpowder. That one feels a little Zulu specific.
 
Off topic but, at 4000 BC when the game started, in real life, Kamehameha and Gajah Mada were actually part of the same civilization. Because that is the approximate date of the start of Austronesian people's expansion from Formosa into Southeast Asia, Madagascar and Pacific ocean.

Madagascar was colonised much, much later - recent estimates suggest earlier than traditionally thought (which was about 0 AD) but not that much earlier. The language is more closely-related to the languages of the Indonesian islands and the Philippines than to Polynesian dialects, and evidently split from an established Malay language subfamily.
 
Is anyone else concerned that Indonesia might be another Byzantium, namely a civ with a number of decent abilities that don't seem to mesh together all that well?

There's no particularly large concerns, but I'm not sure what type of victory they'd really excel at. Spreading out cities to take advantage of the UA makes it more difficult to spread / keep religion, and while cities could certainly always take on the religions of other civs, poor beliefs could result in the extra faith from the Candra being not all that helpful. Plus being "forced" to settle on different landmasses means a river might not always be available for the Candra.

Combined with a random promotion for the Kris, it just doesn't seem to fit. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited they included them, but I'm questioning if things couldn't have been adjusted a bit more.
 
Is anyone else concerned that Indonesia might be another Byzantium, namely a civ with a number of decent abilities that don't seem to mesh together all that well?

There's no particularly large concerns, but I'm not sure what type of victory they'd really excel at. Spreading out cities to take advantage of the UA makes it more difficult to spread / keep religion, and while cities could certainly always take on the religions of other civs, poor beliefs could result in the extra faith from the Candra being not all that helpful. Plus being "forced" to settle on different landmasses means a river might not always be available for the Candra.

Combined with a random promotion for the Kris, it just doesn't seem to fit. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited they included them, but I'm questioning if things couldn't have been adjusted a bit more.

The UB and resources have some synergy with the trade routes mechanic. But overall I don't disagree - I like the themes they've tried to explore (the candi is a very interesting unique, Indonesia seems a civ that gets indirect benefits from trade, and the archipelago nature of the civ is reflected), but I'm unconvinced that they've taken the right approach.

Gameplay-wise, most UUs don't relate especially well to the main civ focus. I just dislike the conceptual idea of introducing magic kris to Civ.

But I'm more concerned about the UA. It feels arbitrary and gamey with its restriction to three cities gaining extra luxes, and each of those getting two. Conceptually, it sits uncomfortably for Indonesia to plant its own resources when no one else can, and for it only to be able to do so on other islands.

Gameplay-wise this seems of limited value unless you actively exploit lux-for-gold trading, which risks making Indonesia overpowered - same issue as the Arabian bazaar.
 
why arbitary and gamey? not sure i understand where ur comeing from, to me they seem, thermaticly at least, spot on for the civ.
im assuming that its limited for 3 city's to stop ICS abuse. seems to encourage u to settle across islands or off continent, giving u nice trade booms for it, other civs will want to trade with u letting u get thos religions that travel with the trade routes.

and its mystic kris, not magic. its apparently a pretty spiritual weapon
 
It's funny how the Indonesia discussions pre-Indonesia BNW is basically everything they ended up giving Indonesia - we talked about Kris Warrior's, Candi's, potential archipelago bonuses, etc etc

(pages 90-98, but talked about again on and off throughout the rest of the thread till Indonesia was released)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=433030&page=90

(If you go back further than that you have stuff like Nao and Feitora being talked about for Portugal)
 
It's funny how the Indonesia discussions pre-Indonesia BNW is basically everything they ended up giving Indonesia - we talked about Kris Warrior's, Candi's, potential archipelago bonuses, etc etc

(pages 90-98, but talked about again on and off throughout the rest of the thread till Indonesia was released)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=433030&page=90

(If you go back further than that you have stuff like Nao and Feitora being talked about for Portugal)

Ahaha.. Yeah..
Firaxis saw my suggestions about island hopping and syncretism.. :p
But their execution is different from my imagination.. :crazyeye:
 
I kind of wish that the Indonesian UA included instant embarkation. Make it coastal tiles only so it doesn't overlap with Polynesia?
 
I kind of wish that the Indonesian UA included instant embarkation. Make it coastal tiles only so it doesn't overlap with Polynesia?

I don't think the bonus is supposed to be on your second city, otherwise it'd be very very powerful. Still, it's not so hard to prioritise sailing and optics. Civs that make you think about your early tech order are fun :).
 
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