Korean War Revisited

So, other than possibly waiting on an extra unit slot for that Naval Task Force for the In'chon invasion (though I suppose something minor or redundant might be found to get rid of to free up an extant slot), I'm currently at work, now that I've gotten a breather in my RL schedule, implementing many of Tootall, Techumseh, and McMonkey's other ideas as of the last year or so that I haven't yet gotten in yet, and I may also have a new idea or two of my own.

Patine said:

I've decided to add a 'Naval Task Force' unit when TNO adds more unit spaces to allow for bombardment (I'll probably only have one or two of them, period) for the amphibious Inch'on invasion (as they'll otherwise be useless, as neither the North Koreans nor Chinese have any sort of naval units). I may also have a house rule demanding they be put to port and disbanded (redeployed) so they can't ahistorically maraud the coast like frothing Vikings. Any thoughts on this?

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Rather than creating a house rule, you can simply do as I did in my Battle of France scenario, i.e. create your Task Force/Battleship unit and give it the submarine flag, which means it can only attack naval units. Because the unit now has the submarine advantages it can now carry missile units.

Then add a 'Naval shell' unit to your unit list and give it the 'Destroyed after attack' flag. Then give the UN forces a limited supply of these shells so that once you run out of them that's it your naval Task Force/Battleship can no longer attack land units.

That is a very elegant solution, tootall. Thanks.

BTW, I'd like to put a request to anyone whose willing and has time to 'winterize' my current Korean War terrain files for tootall's summer/winter turn idea. Frankly, the standing options (such as for RF ToT, Red October, and numerous others), while certainly beautiful in their own context, would just look mismatched in my KW scenario, at least in an entirety. So, if anyone's up to it, I'd be greatly appreciative.

Okay, so other than those two extra units needing slots for the Inch'on Invasion, possible winter terrain and seasonal switches, and maybe a village terrain added and placed here and there, plus cosmetic editing of the game.txt, pedia.txt, and describe.txt, I think this is pretty much done. I already have a fairly good idea which of the concepts I was considering for my next projects I'm likely going to pursue. Would it be in bad taste to start publically brainstorming on it, if not actively working on it, in it's own thread at this very late, but not entirely finished, point in my current project's development?

Hi Patine,

Since it was my suggestion I took the liberty to prepare some new winter terrain files for your scenario. I modified your summer Terrain file a little so I could match up some of the winter resource icons I had (lumber, gold and iron) . Feel free to use them as you see fit and switch things around if you aren't satisfied.

This looks quite good, actually. By the way, do you suggest lowering food values during winter as well, such as in many scenarios with seasonable turns, to potentially induce starvation, or just to alter movement rates and such? I ask, because I don't I've heard reports of starvation in Manchuria during the conflict, for instance, but that may have just been due to a lack of contemporary military intelligence.

Since production and the related population growth isn't really a factor in this game, all the UN reinforcements come from discovering techs, I wouldn't be concerned with modifying food supplies. Just make certain you have enough food so that your cities don't starve.

The main purpose of my suggestion was to make movement more difficult for the UN forces, ground and air, during winter turns. Ground by modifying the movement factor of the different terrain tiles and reducing the road multiplier. Air by reducing their overall movement factor (since in winter their would be less daylight time to fly air missions).

Does anyone recall how to get choice.com to work in a 64-bit environment? I recall Catfish having a workaround, but I don't honestly recall what is was, exactly. I need this working to get the season scheme working for KW, as well as to pursue some of my planned future projects and continue to enjoy many classic MGE and ToT scenarios. If anyone remembers how to do this (or, if by serendipity, Catfish were to pop up), I'd be much obliged.

Hi Patine,

The choice.com utility doesn't work on a 64-bit computer. You need to use the "if "%OS%"=="Windows_NT" goto winxp" command structure in your bat file to make it work.
I recommend you take a look at my "A House Divided 1861 -1865" or "Battle of Iwo Jima" bat files to review how it's done (available on the Scenario League website).

You will see it's relatively straightforward and once done the bat file will work for both 32 and 64 bit computers.

EDIT: You can also go to Catfish's FAQ section on his website and search for Choice/Bat file explanation section under the Troubleshooting section.

Thanks greatly, tootall! That's what I was looking for.

Does anyone actually know just how significant the H-19 Chickasaw helicopter was really to the Korean War effort, other than being a military technology novelty for it's time? I know helicopters weren't as significant as attack aircraft in the Korean War as they were in the Vietnam War. I ask this as I'm considering chopping two low-priority units from the roster to replace with the Naval Task Force and the Naval Units, as it seems TNO has absolutely no timeline on making more unit available, if it can even be done. As it stands, the Engineer (who already is denied to the Communist players and had the sole, now largely obsolete, function of rebuilding razed cities and repairing pillaged terrain improvements) and, possibly, the H-19 are on the chopping block. Does anyone have thoughts on this?

My understanding of the role of the helicopter in Korea is that they were primarily used for casualty evacuation. I would expect they were also used on occasion for artillery spotting, reconnaissance and light transport. This is my impression from what I have read or seen about the war and not based on any form or research.

McMonkey said:

My understanding of the role of the helicopter in Korea is that they were primarily used for casualty evacuation. I would expect they were also used on occasion for artillery spotting, reconnaissance and light transport. This is my impression from what I have read or seen about the war and not based on any form or research.

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You've been watching a lot of M*A*S*H, haven't you, McMonkey?

Seriously, though, if those actually are it's primary roles, I may just have it replace the P-82 Twin Mustang, which, as it stands is the UN player's current air reconassance unit, for which it would be ultimately better suited, given a theoretically unlimited range, and save a slot that way.

I don't think I have ever watched an episode of M*A*S*H, though I know what it is all about and have caught snippets. I think my impression is based mainly on a documentary I saw about the evolution of combat helicopters and what I have read about the Korean war in aircraft encyclopaedias or some brief histories of the KW. I don't recall any mention of them being armed or being aggressively used for reconnaissance duties.

Hi Patine,

I was thinking about your Korean scenario lately and one of the primary reasons the Chinese couldn't pierce my defensive lines and it relates to the usage of air units.

Because the majority of them have a 'Range' factor of '1' that means they can launch multiple air strikes in a single turn (up to the limit of their movement factors and/or the damage they take while attacking). As such, there were many occasions where a single one of my air unit's destroyed up to 5 Chinese ground units in a single sweep. Basically, once my primary defensive line had been set up it's my air units that did the brunt of fighting and killing in the game.

I would recommend changing this in one of 2 ways:

1) increasing the 'Range' factor of your air units to 2. In this manner, you can't attack more than one target per turn and it has the added benefit of introducing the possibility of air combat between the Chinese and UN air forces or,

2) Keep the air unit 'Range' factor at '1' but implement TOTPP's 'Attacks per turn' limit feature. In this manner, you can limit the number of attacks per turn for each unit type. I would suggest to limit the number of attacks for the air units to either 2 or 3 per turn.

As usual, this is merely a suggestion. Feel free to use it or not.

That's a great idea! I'll try it out. I only now (I hope) have the Inchon Invasion, pushing the PVA south down the Korean Peninsula, and getting the summer/winter turns switching events working and it should (knock on wood) be ready to go.

Okay, even though I have bandied about a few new scenario idea of late, I am still working on finishing this up. I've just been inspired to a few changes and upgrades here and there, and, as I myself have never completely (or almost so) rewritten a whole game.txt or pedia.txt file for a scenario (I do admit), that too is taking more time than I thought it would. I hope to have this ready for release before too long, though.

Great, I look forward to seeing its release. I remember playing an older version of your scenario several years ago, and the initial North Korean offensive (or was it the Chinese intervention?) was a real nail-biting experience. I hope the raw struggle for survival persists in this release.

This scenario and EZRhino's 'Sea Kings' are the two that I have been most anticipating.

This is an issue that's been bugging me that I'd like some solution to. In every playtest, both the ones others on this forum and recorded, and my own, much more drawn out and, at times, losing playtests, the North Korean AI player NEVER gets around to researching the tech that triggers the North Korean guerillas to spawn in South Korean territory before they're wiped out as a civ or the scenario ends. If I recall correctly, there's only one prerequisite tech to that one they need to research it which they begin with the prerequisites for, and they aren't really spoiled for research choice. How can I make that research a higher priority, or, if that's not realistic, should I just choose a turn (or a random turn with an early demoninator) to just trigger it by itself?

I recommend you give this discovery when automatically regain a certain city or another fact that can be related to the beginning of the guerrilla struggle.