ALC Game 16: Persia/Cyrus

Pre-Game Thread

Starting Position (this post, below)
Round 1: 4000 BC to 3970 BC
Round 2: 3970 BC to 3100 BC
Round 3: 3100 BC to 1900 BC
Round 4: 1900 BC to 490 BC
Round 5: 490 BC to 205 BC
Round 6: 205 BC to 65 AD
Round 7: 65 AD to 725 AD
Round 8: 725 AD to 1136 AD
Round 9: 1136 AD to 1472 AD
Round 10: 1472 AD to 1553 AD
Round 11: 1553 AD to 1709 AD
Round 12: 1709 AD to 1742 AD
Post Mortem

The idea of the All Leaders Challenge is that I'm going to play a game with each of the Civ IV leaders. With the help of all the posters who participate, I will attempt to make the most of the leader's unique characteristics: traits, starting techs, unit, and building. Aside from the leader, the other game settings are kept constant, at their defaults, for the sake of comparison--although I'm introducing a couple of variations starting with this game (see below). I will post the saved game files, screenshots, and status reports here as the game progresses. Everyone then has a chance to chime in with their strategy ideas, or voice their frustration (or glee) when I make a mistake.

Everyone is invited to offer opinions and advice, and to make your own attempt at playing the same game. But if you do play a "shadow game", I kindly request that you refrain from posting spoilers--i.e. any facts or even hints about the map, opponents, and so on--before I'm there myself. I'm trying to play the game as authentically as possible.

In this ALC game, I'll be playing as Cyrus, leader of the Persian Empire. I'm playing the game using the Warlords expansion pack (complete with the 2.08 patch). The difficulty level is Monarch, the map is Fractal , and the speed is Epic .

Welnic was kind enough to check the start and has confirmed that I am not isolated, and that there are horses somewhere in the vicinity. This was done because, frankly, an isolated start without horses would have been a waste of Cyrus' best features.

Here are all of the game settings:



And here's a look at the start:



Kind of a mediocre start, but I have high hopes for it. The dearth of initial resources makes me hope that something strategic (horses, copper, iron) will show up in the capital's fat cross. Some of you were urging me to run a Specialist Economy even though Cyrus is not Philosophical. This start could lend itself to that, with several tiles available for irrigation.

My immediate inclination is to move the Settler 1 NW, which keeps the fresh water bonus and the corn but makes the city coastal. Despite the lack of visible seafood, it's still better than being 1 tile from the coast. However, I should obviously move the Scout first. Should he go east to see what I'd be missing by moving? Or west to verify that there's something enticing out there?

My own preference is to move him 1 SE and then 1 SW onto the hill, thus revealing all the tiles that would be in the fat cross if I settled in place. If he reveals nothing, however, we still run the risk of not claiming a currently-hidden resource. On the other hand, if the resource is that close by, it should be easy enough to claim it with another city or even with the capital's 3rd border pop.

Let me know what you think. I'll move the Scout based on your recommendations and post the results.

My first thougt was also to settle one NW. I would move the scout to the hill to the NW first just to see what will be the fat cross for the city.

EDIT: First!!

martin031 said:

My first thougt was also to settle one NW. I would move the scout to the hill to the NW first just to see what will be the fat cross for the city.

EDIT: First!!

Click to expand...

Technically, you're actually second.

Darn it! I wanted to be first!

Ah well...

Anyhooooo, I think 1 NW is fine, but move that scout in that direction first to check for resources!

move the scout. I bet there are pigs your missing or somethign similar if you move. You have no searasource so thats just 4 dead titles instead of 2. You likely and hopefully wont get to the point where your actually want to work watertitles anyways. Collosus is just a too big of a detour(and would be the only reason to work them considering your not financial. Assuming there is anything at all out there i would just settle in place(move the scout as you said. Biggest problem with this start is that there are likely some production problems if you dont pop a strategic reasource. I would strongly suggest to reaserch AH first if only to see where those horses are, too bad you dont have any visible AH reasources though you do have irrigated corn which is a real monster(and with carismatic you can whip huge chunks(too bad its impossible to whip imortals for 2 pop unlike most other units). Yes i dont think a scour first would be worth it as working irrigated corn early is sooo good. Also a tips for the worker that you may or may not know. Since the corn is 2 tiles away from the capital moving it there at once is a huge waste. It is much better to just move it one step towards it and start either a farm(most likely) or a road then cancle imeadiatly so you can move it towards where you want and start working on the title as soon as possible.

Another thing to consider is, if you are going to run a SE, you might want to consider settling 1 NE, so you don't "waste" a grassland river tile, which is 3 food, as opposed to that plains tile (that you would be settling on) which can't be irrigated until civil service. Only drawback is you lose the hill in the NW. I'd say move the scout 1SE then 1SW and let us know what you see.

You'll want production for building units, NW has at least two hills plus food. Looks like forests to the SE, and no river, so I wouldn't go there.

NW is very green but hope for more mines to use Cyrus to his maximum potential.

I'd look to the west, Scout W, NW

Edit: you should post from the settler so we can see blue circles

Well, If we're considering a SE, that changes things. I've been experimenting with SE's and 1 NW is looking more and more lucrative. There is at least 4 forests for chopping, 2 hills for early production and corn for faster growth. The fact that there is only one resource in sight is suspicious, I have a feeling that there will be eith Iron on one of those hills or horses on your many grasslands. Also the site is looking better and better for conquest because of the potential for whipping. Pick up the wheel and Agri for techs,from goody huts preferably, and then move towards BW and IW in preparation for reinforcing your rush for later warmongering. Otherwise, use you cheaper settlers to grab land, about 2-4 cities, whip or chop rush Immortals, and go conquer your rivals!

1 NW seems reasonable for both Settler and Scout. 1N to hill for Scout after that. I really would like to see what is to the east though. It looks like there is more coast immediately east as the 1NW seems to turn down at the edge. Could mean access to fish but probably not as that would be outside of the fat cross. I like coastal capitols for Colossus but thats usually for builders with lots of hammers.

Looks like a lot of grassland to the W with few hammers if we do settle NW and we cut down most of those trees. Hopefully the scout reveals something more useful.

I say don't settle until you have more information. You can move around and settle on your 3rd or even 4th turn if you have to. You did this with your Kubai Khan game and it ended up as your highest score game. You also start with hunting/scouts so you could potentially pop ALOT of huts.

My first move would be to move the scout 1N of the Corn, on that far off grassland hill and depending on what the Scout discovers I may change my move but if the scout doesn't discover anything interesting I'd move my settler 1 tile West then 1 tile SE on the Grassland hill.

Why I Moved west 1st instead of going straight for the grassland hill is because if the settle move to the hill he wouldn't be able to see what's on that plains tile west of the forest becuase then the forest would block your point of view.

i agree with you thinking of moving the scout to the southern hill because if something is really enticing you might want to move in that direction and save the corn for another city

Interestingly, we can't tell on this start if you're north or south of the equator--all the forest I can see is coniferous--if any was deciduous, then the equator would lie in that direction (same point for deciduous--jungle). At any rate, if the scout's moves reveals any deciduous forest, make sure to take that into account.

Good luck! I want to see those Immortals rolling through the AI!

One NW for settling after Scout moves as you already suggest onto the hill.

Now that's decided play the next round.

Move the scout onto the hill south of your settler to make sure that there isn't somthing you're missing, would be pretty bad if there were three sugar tiles or somthing there. If it's just grassland/plains go ahead and do 1NW.

I'd like to request a quick move of the scout 1 SE and then 1 SW to reveal additional tiles with an additional screen shot before too much more discussion of city placement takes place.

If you're interested in moving 1 NW, the move SE will reveal more tiles and then the move to the hill will reveal a bunch more than you could otherwise get.

Alternately, move the scout 1 NW and then 1 N to move onto the hill there to see if there is anything actually worth moving for and then move the settler 1 S to see if there is anything worth staying for. Unless you're going to check out the imminent Spoiler thread, that is the fastest, most efficient method of scouting the immediate terrain. It means that you don't settle on the first turn or on the second turn, but you're not shooting for a religion and as long as you're not isolated, I think you'll do fine.

...and if you are isolated, then 2 turns isn't going to make that much of a difference anyway.

EDIT: on re-reading this, I realised that I wasn't really all that clear on my suggestion. I suggest moving the scout 1 SE and then 1 SW to get a look at things from the hill. Losing 2 turns isn't going to kill your chances, but I don't see any reason to lose 2 turns of game just for the scouting when you have such a good option with just 1 turn of Scout movement and 0 required turns of Settler movement.

yay! I just absolutely love lurking the ALC topics. It'll be fun watching this one unfold.

I'd move the scout SE, E onto the forest. See if you are going to miss some random RNG-bestowed resources. I always seem to get 3-4 in my start so why not check first?

I like kniteowl's suggestion, and note that you could also move the Settler 1 SE and then on to the Hill to spot land in the other direction from the Scout. The down side is that you'll likely end up settling on turn 3 . . but Cyrus is all about early war, and you'll be attacking them at least 10 turns before normal, even more if Horses show up in the BFC. I'd guess you have a lot of free play in that regard-- use it.

I'm voting 1S for the settler, and NW then N for the scout. That way, you lost a turn, but you gain valuable information about your possible settlement options. Possible scenarios:

1) Turns out that starting location is great. Settle there: 1 turn lost.
2) 1NW is best starting location. Settle there, 2 turns lost.

No big deal either way, really. You still pile on the science at a standard rate.

Interesting item to consider: usually, capital city starts are the best of the best. This instance kind of stinks because you're one tile off the coast. But! Maybe that means instead of an awesome capital, you have two really good starting cities. I mean to say that even if 1NW isn't terrific, it might make a really good ying to your second city's yang. City 2 would then be located somewhere south of the southern hill.

One other thing: if you settle in place, that's exactly two tiles that you'll not want to use (the two coastal tiles). You will probably easily use those two citizens as specialists anyway. It may all work out for the best.

I like Sisutl's suggestion. Scouting around can be good, but every turn lost hurts if you want to get started fast. Also, being next to the corn gives a few turn boost to the first growth.