SGOTM 15 - One Short Straw

magnusmarcus said:

56 1760BC
Delhi se worker e road

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Okay, maybe we should remove this action from the PPP, since it sounds like we may want to re-examine which squares get roaded in the east.

Since we are going to upload the saved game before completing Turn 56, there is no harm in waiting until after this playing session to decide what to do with that Worker action.



Note that the Happy New Year image = edited-in info, which I'm trying not to add very often in this SGOTM
EDIT:

magnusmarcus said:

I dont think there are any extra worker movements to spare to road deer.

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In the current plan, no there aren't. However, if we go with settling on top of the Marble, we won't need to Quarry the Marble, which will totally change the outlook of where our Workers need to be and what they need to be doing.

If Toku is awesome and comes to our rescue, we won't be scouting with a Worker in the south, which could also have a small effect on our Worker turns (probably not the relevant Worker turns, but whatever ).

1 good thing about building on the marble is eventually we'll have 3 cities at the same distance to the capital....

GW finished 1800 BC
Toku archer went sw to 2E of bronze 1800BC
No sign of barbarians 1800 BC
Library finished switching to settler Delhi
MM CORN BRONze 2 sci Delhi

magnusmarcus said:

GW finished 1800 BC

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We didn't want it anyway, right?

magnusmarcus said:

Toku archer went sw to 2E of bronze 1800BC

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May the force be with him!

magnusmarcus said:

No sign of barbarians 1800 BC

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I guess that means this move for Turn 55, 1800 BC:
Warrior 3:
b) If the Barb Warrior is not visible (i.e. he moved to the north), move 1N onto the GRiv For (1W of the GRiv For Deer)


It's all sounding good so far!

Turn 54, 1840 BC: You are the worst enemy of Tokugawa, Hammuragawa.
Turn 54, 1840 BC: You have discovered The Wheel!
Turn 54, 1840 BC: Hammuragawa has founded Dur-Kurigalzu in a distant land.
Turn 54, 1840 BC: The Great Wall has been built in a far away land!

Turn 55, 1800 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 8 ℤ for Delhi.
Turn 55, 1800 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 20 ℤ for Delhi.
Turn 55, 1800 BC: Nature's Chandi has been founded.

Toku Archer is Getting with the Game

We are now at the beginning of 1760 No worker moves performed or mm done

I'm very tempted to play another turn. Just to see where toku's archer goes

At what point in the next several turns would our actions change based on where we settle the marble city? I assume that if we plan to do testing, magnusmarcus will have to stop at this point until we've decided where to settle, what to do with the workers and where to build our roads.

Dhoomstriker said:

I guess that means this move for Turn 55, 1800 BC:
Warrior 3:
b) If the Barb Warrior is not visible (i.e. he moved to the north), move 1N onto the GRiv For (1W of the GRiv For Deer)

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This did not happen He stayed put

Nice work, magnusmarcus.

Did you remember to spread Hinduism to Zlatorog?

magnusmarcus said:

I'm very tempted to play another turn. Just to see where toku's archer goes

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I think we need to stop here until we decide what to do with the worker to copper-1N.

Just for clarification, can you currently see the barb in the NW? Can you show a screen shot of the area and indicate the last turn and location you saw him?

Mitchum said:

I think we need to stop here until we decide what to do with the worker to copper-1N.

Just for clarification, can you currently see the barb in the NW? Can you show a screen shot of the area and indicate the last turn and location you saw him?

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I cant recall seeing him at all this turn set

I'm advocating keeping our worker turns as currently set. If its determined that marble city needs to be settled not in the original location I think the worker turns could be better spent getting prechops at marble city for troops and/or completing the road from Nature's Chandi.

We dont even have a settler scheduled to built for the deer yet

magnusmarcus said:

I'm advocating keeping our worker turns as currently set. If its determined that marble city needs to be settled not in the original location I think the worker turns could be better spent getting prechops at marble city for troops and/or completing the road from Nature's Chandi.

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Yes, I agree that the worker turns can be better spent doing other things if we settle on top of the marble. That frees up six worker turns.

However, until we all agree on where to build our roads, I don't think it makes sense to play on...

LC is going to want to use the manual saves from each turn to calculate how many cities there are. He may be down for the night, but it would be good if they were available when he gets up. EDIT: LC is alive...

I too am anxious to see what Toku's archer is going to do. Based on the fact that he's headed this far SW, I don't see any reason why he wouldn't continue.

Could I get the saves, please?

We also need to wire our southern warriors now. Figure out a solid plan for pursuing TOku's archer if he continues and I think he should because he's moving into better fogbusting terriroty, so that should pull him right along, hopefully.

I'll be up for another hour or two, so we can maybe figure it out tonight, otherwise for tomorrow morning.

LowtherCastle said:

Could I get the saves, please?

We also need to wire our southern warriors now. Figure out a solid plan for pursuing TOku's archer if he continues and I think he should because he's moving into better fogbusting terriroty, so that should pull him right along, hopefully.

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ah frack I knew i forgot something. and the auto saves are overwritten by testing

Sorry (at least there were only 2 and 1 you can get from the upload site)

Mitchum said:

At what point in the next several turns would our actions change based on where we settle the marble city?

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Potentially on the current turn.

Mitchum said:

I assume that if we plan to do testing, magnusmarcus will have to stop at this point until we've decided where to settle, what to do with the workers and where to build our roads.

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We should probably play out a bit of a "settle on the Marble" approach to see if we like it.

There is a good chance that we'll get our choice of settling locations thanks to Toku's Archer.

A few random thoughts:
1. I guess it's worth putting "manually save the game" as a PP entry at the start of each turn. I often put extra tasks like that (such as "check the F4 Glance screen") in my PPPs as it is easy to forget when you're caught up in the excitement of playing. Goodness knows that I've forgotten to do things (including manually save the game) many times.

2. We'll probably want to move our northern Warrior but I'll have to look where it is located to see where we might want to move it before I give a recommendation of where to send it.

3. As for the Barb Archer and seeing whether Toku kills it... we COULD move Warrior 1 (John) 1S onto the GHills square in the hopes that Toku will move there to guard us, so that if Toku loses the fight, we can kill the Barb Archer before it upgrades. However, if Toku doesn't move there, we could die. Or, the Barb Archer might not even be next to that square. So, I think that we'll just have to patiently wait and hope that Toku does his thing. At least Toku doesn't have any "don't walk near Cultural Borders" coding, so we should see him reappear after a couple of turns, hopefully, unlike the never-to-be-seen Barb Archer.

4. Good work so far, magnusmarcus! However, let's take a breather now and do some testing... is there a chance that you can give us an up-to-date test saved game by playing your actions through in the test saved game? Don't worry about the position of either the Barb units or Toku's units--I can always change those in the World Builder afterwards. You can start from this test saved game in order to save yourself a turn of playing forward: Turn 54 OSS Test BC-1840.CivBeyondSwordSave

magnusmarcus said:

ah frack I knew i forgot something. and the auto saves are overwritten by testing

Sorry (at least there were only 2 and 1 you can get from the upload site)

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No probs. That's far better than forgetting something important. You're doing great, magnus!

So, I think I got it figured out. So my current guestimate is that we're at 27 cities worldwide. We built one and Hammy built one, both last turn.

I missed before that in 2000BC someone founded Taoism, meaning they researched Montheism. That means someone can now getting the Theology religion with a GP and build the AP. Not good.

I'm done for the day. I agree with Dhoom and Mitchum that we need to do some study.

Dhoomstriker said:

3. As for the Barb Archer and seeing whether Toku kills it... we COULD move Warrior 1 (John) 1S onto the GHills square in the hopes that Toku will move there to guard us, so that if Toku loses the fight, we can kill the Barb Archer before it upgrades. However, if Toku doesn't move there, we could die. Or, the Barb Archer might not even be next to that square. So, I think that we'll just have to patiently wait and hope that Toku does his thing. At least Toku doesn't have any "don't walk near Cultural Borders" coding, so we should see him reappear after a couple of turns, hopefully, unlike the never-to-be-seen Barb Archer.

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I'm thinking we should be in the clear to wait till next turn. Let Toku put his archer up there on the hill, then we'll follow him. We should be safe, because if there is a barb archer next to the hill, Toku will attack it. Of course, he might lose and then the barb archer attacks us, but we'll konw if it's there as soon as we move it and we can upgrade to CI if necessary for extra protection.

If the barb happens to attack TOku's archer before we move there, we'll see the damage and know we're in the clear. If there's no damage, well, we'll see no barb archer when we get there.

Assuming that we end up being in the clear with the Barb Archer and can settle anywhere, is there any settling location out of the six choices that I presented something that someone thinks might be good?

I mean, is there a choice that anyone thought they might want which we could pit against a settle-on-the-Marble settling location, in order to give a reasonable comparison?

LowtherCastle said:

I missed before that in 2000BC someone founded Taoism, meaning they researched Monotheism.

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Hmmm, good point. I saw Taoism being founded but I didn't clue into the fact that it meant that Monotheism has been teched.


Have we considered the idea of researching Monotheism ourselves?

For building an army it won't help much, but afterward, say, if we were building Courthouses, it could help to revolt into Organized Religion for 5 turns. I mean, we're stuck in Hinduism ANYWAY, plus we ARE spiritual, and now that the Religion for being first to the tech is gone, we won't have to worry about getting a second Holy City of a Religion that we can't switch to, which could have otherwise messed up our auto-spreading of Hinduism (or even caused manual-spreading to fail in some cases).

We also already have Masonry and Polytheism ANYWAY, so it's not like we'd be going far out of our way.

Lightbulbing Christianity WOULD mess up our Lightbulbing of Great Scientists (since Paper -> Education would be unlocked for Lightbulbing), but which is worse: not being able to Lightbulb Astronomy or Machinery + Engineering versus instant-losing the game simply due to owning only a single Buddhist City (Toku's capital) around the time that an AI can build the Apostolic Palace?

Maybe Lightbulbing Theology will be a better use of our Great Prophet from The Oracle (assuming that we get that Wonder).