Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded
- Thread starter Rhye
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Hi again,
Finally a quick post. I think you guys are doing a great job and it probably doesn't really matter which way you go with all the different kinds of ships. You have to fit a snapshot of shipping history into a game that requires stats and images to represent a battle. It is difficult and I am impressed with how much thought is happening. The era between the battle of Navarino in 1827 and the battle of Tsumisho in 1905 (spelling and date are guess work, previously mentioned as 1901) was an era of naval peace largely due to the policing nature of the British Navy. It is hard to explain but this era is what is causing difficulties for you as military advances seemed to go backwards. The ironclads and other metal steamships were the battleships of the 1800s because there was nothing more powerful than them. There was no need to build huge ships of power so navies built smaller faster and more nimble ships to patrol the whole world and quickly respond to a crisis. The Suez canal opened and meant the end of the Sail Era.
Whatever you decide I think people will be happy with because of the level of consultation. Thanks for my time here, I think this community is great!
Samart
Finally a quick post. I think you guys are doing a great job and it probably doesn't really matter which way you go with all the different kinds of ships. You have to fit a snapshot of shipping history into a game that requires stats and images to represent a battle. It is difficult and I am impressed with how much thought is happening. The era between the battle of Navarino in 1827 and the battle of Tsumisho in 1905 (spelling and date are guess work, previously mentioned as 1901) was an era of naval peace largely due to the policing nature of the British Navy. It is hard to explain but this era is what is causing difficulties for you as military advances seemed to go backwards. The ironclads and other metal steamships were the battleships of the 1800s because there was nothing more powerful than them. There was no need to build huge ships of power so navies built smaller faster and more nimble ships to patrol the whole world and quickly respond to a crisis. The Suez canal opened and meant the end of the Sail Era.
Whatever you decide I think people will be happy with because of the level of consultation. Thanks for my time here, I think this community is great!
Samart
Three_Crowns
Information Retrieval
Gunner said:
Hopefully, privateers will only have defensive bombardment. The ability to destroy improvement without declaring war would make it too powerful. Otherwise, I vote A.
Blasphemous
Graulich
Actually if the Privateer had a low offensive bombard (2 to 4 bombard strength) that would be very cool and would make them much more of a threat... Every nation with more than a couple coastal tiles would have to maintain a navy to defend the coasts with...
Maybe we should also add a "Buccaneer" (or Pirate) hidden nationality marine unit with 3.1.1 that can only be loaded onto Privateers (with privateers having 1 slot for them and being unable to hold anything else.) They would hardly be able to damage cities but they could harass workers... =P
Maybe we should also add a "Buccaneer" (or Pirate) hidden nationality marine unit with 3.1.1 that can only be loaded onto Privateers (with privateers having 1 slot for them and being unable to hold anything else.) They would hardly be able to damage cities but they could harass workers... =P
Aeon221
Lord of the Cheese Helmet
... well since I suggested we add the SoL of COURSE I vote against it ;p
I do think that we need to restrict privateers to defensive bombardment, because an exploit as obvious as that cannot be allowed. Def keep with the policy of no unknown/invisible ground units.
@Samart: Tsushima Straits, almost certain you are right about 1904
I do think that we need to restrict privateers to defensive bombardment, because an exploit as obvious as that cannot be allowed. Def keep with the policy of no unknown/invisible ground units.
@Samart: Tsushima Straits, almost certain you are right about 1904
Blasphemous
Graulich
I think it can be done by flagging privateer as carry only foot AND carry only air, and flag the privateer as both foot and air. It won't be able to go onto ships that carry only foot because it's air, and nothing but it will be able to go onto a privateer since nothing else will have both flags. I'm pretty sure that's supposed to work.Plotinus said:
Micromegas
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2004
- Messages
- 117
In general, vote is A, but I second Blas idea to add a bucaneer, sounds nice, if that's not possible how about stealth? Running in the harbour under 'wrong' flag and destroy the coastal batteries... OK, I admit I'm obsessed with those privateers.
Enkidu_Warrior
Shaman
Micromegas said:Who's next...? Usually they suck so much, that would make them a suitable follow-up to the Incas indeed.
thankyou for saying that micro! i just played a regent game as egypt and got my hat handed to me by the german lancers and knights. absolutely devastated.
the double-whammy of flood plain disease (costing me tons of citizens) and low shield output (is it just me, or are there WAY too many LM no-shield tiles in and around egypt's start location?) left me behind in development, both of defense and infrastructure.
i'm going to try them again, i think, but my first reaction is that egypt must be woefully underpowered (or are we saying difficult?
)
Enkidu_Warrior
Shaman
Rhye said:
in two previous games (one under ROC 2.65 and the other ROCX 1.01) i found communism to be almost too easy. i dont believe the -1 on all cities would be imbalancing at all.
EW
Enkidu_Warrior
Shaman
i also vote for the change (A). i believe an earlier comment by Samart indicated that the SoL did NOT carry units, so we should probably disable transport for it.
and a special thanks to aeon and samart for feeding such an in-depth discussion. it's been very interesting to lurk along.
and a special thanks to aeon and samart for feeding such an in-depth discussion. it's been very interesting to lurk along.
Blasphemous
Graulich
-1 happiness to all cities would only be really bad for low-pop nations without big armies and/or without alot of lux. That kind of nation usually shouldn't be in Communism anyway, and won't benefit much from the SPHQ even without losing happiness (as low population means low corruption). So I think it will only serve to slightly curb the power of the ultimate gov't for a large empire. And one of the things I think this mod does successfully but not completely, is curbing the exponential growth factor in civ. You really are threatened by small nations even when you're a large empire in RoC/X. (Next time I go for a large empire, I'm gonna start in Fascism and then once I'm too big I'll make the quick switch to Communism... It's really not necessary but I need to teach myself to use the quick gov't switching. =P)
Three_Crowns
Information Retrieval
But a privateer with offensive bombardment would be able to move out of a port and destroy improvements and move back into safety - multiply with x stack of privateers. A bucaneer would be able to pour across the border and destroy improvements - multiply with stack.
Another thing - did the modern destroyer/cruiser get a bombardment that represents cruise missiles? Otherwise, I would suggest they do. That would be a nice way to make battleships obsolete. I also like the idea of a tech that simply makes the battleship obsolete without it upgrading to anything. That way, they will slowly be "decommisioned".
I think the -1 happiness with SPHQ makes good sence - both historical and in respect to gameplay.
Another thing - did the modern destroyer/cruiser get a bombardment that represents cruise missiles? Otherwise, I would suggest they do. That would be a nice way to make battleships obsolete. I also like the idea of a tech that simply makes the battleship obsolete without it upgrading to anything. That way, they will slowly be "decommisioned".
I think the -1 happiness with SPHQ makes good sence - both historical and in respect to gameplay.
Micromegas
Warlord
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- 117
Enkidu, isn't that true? Very difficult. Maybe I should have used more forced labour, I generally try to avoid that as much as possible. But they provide a real strategical challenge ... if I only could make up my mind which road to follow with them. Production is just to low to go for cultural, domination is completely out of reach, maybe they are a candidate for diplomatic. But how to keep up in tech until the last stage... Difficult indeed. Anyone successfully played Egypt?
Rhye
's and Fall creator
OK I'll try to change some tile near Egyptian starting location.
The next patch is going to screw up the medieval tree in old savegames. They will be playable but will show wrong arrows.
The only thing to decide now is:
a1)Privateer with defensive bombard 4/0/0
a2)Privateer with low offensive bombard 3/1/2
The next patch is going to screw up the medieval tree in old savegames. They will be playable but will show wrong arrows.
The only thing to decide now is:
a1)Privateer with defensive bombard 4/0/0
a2)Privateer with low offensive bombard 3/1/2
Rhye
's and Fall creator
now that I think, we just went over 5000 posts! incredible....
anyway these are the predicted changes in 1.12:
Palace Guards now immobile
Trebuchet no longer available to Rome
Partisan no longer wheeled
USMC now has ranged attack animation
Added Ship of the Line, available with Naval Tactics
Changed Galleass, Frigate, Galleon, Man-o-War, Privateer, Gallivat, Turtle Ship and Ironclad stats
Increased cost of all the industrial and modern ships
Secret Police HQ now causes an unhappy citizen in all the cities
Alchemy now requires Siegecraft too (so that Metallurgy is discovered later)
Physics moved to the top of the medieval tech tree, after Humanism
Humanism now requires Printing Press
Military Tradition now requires Magnetism too
Naval Tactics requires Mercantilism too
Reduced Firearms, Military Tradition, Flintlock and Naval Tactics cost
Tuned Egyptian strength (+)
Slightly decreased disease and plague strength (80)
anyway these are the predicted changes in 1.12:
Palace Guards now immobile
Trebuchet no longer available to Rome
Partisan no longer wheeled
USMC now has ranged attack animation
Added Ship of the Line, available with Naval Tactics
Changed Galleass, Frigate, Galleon, Man-o-War, Privateer, Gallivat, Turtle Ship and Ironclad stats
Increased cost of all the industrial and modern ships
Secret Police HQ now causes an unhappy citizen in all the cities
Alchemy now requires Siegecraft too (so that Metallurgy is discovered later)
Physics moved to the top of the medieval tech tree, after Humanism
Humanism now requires Printing Press
Military Tradition now requires Magnetism too
Naval Tactics requires Mercantilism too
Reduced Firearms, Military Tradition, Flintlock and Naval Tactics cost
Tuned Egyptian strength (+)
Slightly decreased disease and plague strength (80)
Gunner
Emperor
A1. The privateer bombard is a cool idea, yet I think only the human would end up using it effectively and the AI would be left more clueless than usual. Too easy of an exploit.
Micromegas
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2004
- Messages
- 117
Privateers should be offensive by nature shouldn't they? 
If you want I can do an installer for the patch too, that should really be much easier than the full install and be done in a breeze. Three Crownes tested the full one on a fresh install and it did well btw, just to keep you uptodate.
If you want I can do an installer for the patch too, that should really be much easier than the full install and be done in a breeze. Three Crownes tested the full one on a fresh install and it did well btw, just to keep you uptodate.
Aeon221
Lord of the Cheese Helmet
If you really want to add the Buc, remove the pillage flag to prevent pillaging. In fact, make it like the Berserker in the Middle Ages scenario and flag it with collateral (right under creates craters) and def bombardment (with a low attack).
That way it will mess up the city with a low likelihood of actually taking it. I would also recommend giving it 1 or 0 def (I do not believe 0 is actually an option... but still) so that it wont be able to hold the territory it takes, just pillage the city and capture it.
I am trying to figure out a way to create a land unit that doesnt start wars by attacking without making it overpowered.
Suggested stats for Buccaneer:
A- 3
D- 1
M- 1
B- 8
RoF- 2
R- 0
-Collateral
-Hidden nationality
Maybe? Make it expensive, but not so expensive as to make it worthless. Might also want to consider it under the same light as the militia in terms of penalties.
That way it will mess up the city with a low likelihood of actually taking it. I would also recommend giving it 1 or 0 def (I do not believe 0 is actually an option... but still) so that it wont be able to hold the territory it takes, just pillage the city and capture it.
I am trying to figure out a way to create a land unit that doesnt start wars by attacking without making it overpowered.
Suggested stats for Buccaneer:
A- 3
D- 1
M- 1
B- 8
RoF- 2
R- 0
-Collateral
-Hidden nationality
Maybe? Make it expensive, but not so expensive as to make it worthless. Might also want to consider it under the same light as the militia in terms of penalties.
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