The Modding Wiki

FYI as threatened I've begun work on the Wiki (nothing there yet). I've organized links to threads into the following categories:
...
Thanks for the contribution. Eventually articles will need to include links to original discussions & tutorials. Plus the links can be starting points for article writers to do their research. Is your list on the front page of the wiki?
Most topics in your list start with a "General game concept" and in the next step comes how to mod it...
It looks good, but do we want Allgemeine Spielkonzepte ("General game concepts") or just, well, modding info?
Thunderfall's original intention was that this be a modding wiki. But modding implies design, & design implies concepts. As long as the focus is on aiding the creation & customization process I don't see any reason to reject any kind of content.
 
God knows the Germans have organization down to a science, and the British have organization down to a necessity, and the French have organization down to a contest, and the Italians have organization down to a secret, and Russians have organization down to a threat, and the Chinese have organization down to a culture, but

Americans have organization down to an Art*, so may I suggest an alternative way to organize this:

Basics: what can be modded?
Tools & Utilities


Modding with the Editor

AI Behavior (and how to make them do your bidding)
Tweaking gameplay
Tips & Tricks
Teleportation

Text Files

Sound Files

Graphics modding
Modding Techs, Buildings & Wonder Splashes
Modding Terrains
Modding Resources
Roads and Rails
Using LM Terrains
Modding the Interface

Animation (FLC) Editing

Recolorations
.ini and .amb files and what they do
Using the storyboard editor
Leaderheads

Unit Making
3D tools & Utilities
Resources
Tips & Tricks

Using the Database
Appendix 1 : Graphics Libraries
Appendix 2: Unit Libraries
Appendix 3: Author's Libraries



*Just a joke, please nobody be offended...
 
With some minor modifications, I can easily fit my list of links under Balthasar's heading of "Modding with the Editor".

We also might want to give more forethought to, "Tips & Tricks" - e.g., "What's the best way to mod helicopter gunships?"

Lemme know.

As Ever,

Oz
 
Top down is good. gives a basic structure. An organization scheme like Balthasar's proposal is really describing a portal or a set of portals. a "Modding Units" portal would include a link to the article discussing terrain effects on units just as a "Modding Terrain" portal would. But each would link to many articles the other portal did not.

The other important part of building a wiki is writing short articles that can later be expanded & that hopefully include links to other parts of the wiki. Portals don't do much good without articles.

Take terrain & maps, for example. Having combed through many threads, I've re-organized pieces of the various discussions about maps/terrain into blocks of related text. I'm now redacting those into articles on the following topics:
  • Map Design Philosophy
  • Using BMP2BIC
  • Making Maps From Scratch
  • Editing/Adapting Existing Maps
  • Using Map Tweaker
  • Working with Terrain (includes explanations of terrain files & their interactions)
  • Landmark Terrain
  • Creating Custom Terrain Graphics
  • Hexediting Terrain Types
  • Resources
  • Controlling Unit Movement
Each of these articles will be shorter & clearer by linking to the articles on related subjects. It's a web, not a hierarchy. Fundamental to understanding a wiki is really getting the concept that anybody can edit anything. I don't expect to post finished articles. Can't since people will later add links to articles that don't yet exist, correct errors, insert sections on newly discovered techniques, etc.

No outline is going to survive without changing either. The schema tends to arise organically as people add & refine articles, make links, etc.

I think one good way to get things rolling would be for each interested person to make a wiki article that is just a stub - the basic answer you find yourself giving over & over again. A simple paragraph explaining palette indexes for example. Then the next time someone asks the same question, just post the link. Eventually more detailed explanations, graphic examples, exceptions to the rules, etc. would get added to the brief paragraph that the article started as.

At this point we need paragraphs more than lists. If anyone is willing to do the basic writing of a short article but doesn't want to get into the wikifying (page formating code, links, etc.) I'd be glad to do that side of it.
 
Can you guys also make a Civ Vanilla tutorial, like adding units to civopedia, adding scenarios etc... Cause ive seen alot of Civ conquest tutorials and very little vanilla tutorials.
 
I'm curious, does anyone think it's worth trying to keep this Wiki orderly and full of useful information? It's rather empty now, although a few pages do have a lot of good links (say the Modding Tutorials). It seems to me like it could be a good replacement for some of the old index stickies that haven't been updated for years due to their creators no longer visiting CFC, etc, as the Wiki could be updated by anyone.

But I don't know if anyone even visits the Wiki - and I don't know if that would change if it had more useful information. I tend to just search the forum using the Advanced Search feature as the forum is where all the information is now. It seems like after an initial burst of activity when it was created, no one's updated the Civ3 part of the Wiki.

I was thinking of creating a 'Confirmed Hardcoded Limits' page, having just confirmed that there must be exactly four experience levels, but didn't know if anyone would ever find it.
 
sorry that it took a couple of days to reply.

The wiki wasn't intended to be a place to move whole threads. The idea is to gather the useful information into articles so it's not buried in between dozens of other posts..

I have a lot of material I gathered from various threads on map-making & terrain that I started to write up. I never completed it because there seemed to be no interest in the wiki as a whole.

Constructing a wiki is too large a job for any one person. At the time no one seemed to be willing to start articles. Once an article started anyone can refine it by adding material or links. contributors need to register - but it's just to keep track of who is editing & the registration info stays within the CFC structure, afaik.

I'd like to see a renewed effort. Not only would it save all the active creators a lot of search time - all those "just one more question" threads can be given a link as an answer.
 
sorry that it took a couple of days to reply.

The wiki wasn't intended to be a place to move whole threads. The idea is to gather the useful information into articles so it's not buried in between dozens of other posts..

I have a lot of material I gathered from various threads on map-making & terrain that I started to write up. I never completed it because there seemed to be no interest in the wiki as a whole.

Constructing a wiki is too large a job for any one person. At the time no one seemed to be willing to start articles. Once an article started anyone can refine it by adding material or links. contributors need to register - but it's just to keep track of who is editing & the registration info stays within the CFC structure, afaik.

I'd like to see a renewed effort. Not only would it save all the active creators a lot of search time - all those "just one more question" threads can be given a link as an answer.

I'd like to see someone (besides myself) propose, with a great deal of specificity, what info and in what format should go in; also, a methodology to make certain everyone contributing is doing the same thing in the same way.

Best As Always,

Oz
 
I'd like to see someone (besides myself) propose, with a great deal of specificity, what info and in what format should go in; also, a methodology to make certain everyone contributing is doing the same thing in the same way.
In one sense what you ask for needs to arise organically - format & organization of a new reference resource that are useful can't be too narrowly defined before-hand. Also, an organization that makes sense for one area - such as scenario design, which can be a nebulous topic by nature - may not make sense for another - such as how to work with unit palettes, which needs as much specificity and organization as a cookbook or automotive manual. Links between articles and the C&C forum, categorization of articles into subjects/portals, etc. will necessarily evolve as the wiki-style communal editing goes on.

But you do rightly point out the need for some sort of coherence. As an overarching guideline I'd suggest that those who have successfully worked in an area (such as civilopedia editing) be the ones who guide the development of articles & vet their accuracy. There is also the consideration that the most creative people ought not to lose time better spent on their projects. And not all of us have either experience with making wiki articles or the time & willingness to learn the mechanics.

If there were a small group of us putting time in to add links, illustrations, etc. then sometimes the raw content could be plunked in with confidence that it will eventually be refined. "Raw content" meaning the transfer of text from specific posts to a wiki page. Those who have written informative posts are the logical ones to involve in this step. Even if all they do is post links here to their own posts that they feel have information worth including. Maybe as few as 2-3 editors/organizers to build on their work would get this project off the ground. I've written manuals & worked for several years as an editor/layout designer of publications. I've also got some experience with structuring linked content. OTOH, I'm one of those who would need to learn the mechanics of making wikis. I'm willing to function as an editor/stylist, but not solo.

A couple of sample articles - not all from a single author - may be a good way to focus discussion of article layout & the conceptual structure. I can put up at least a skeleton of the set of short articles on maps & terrain to show how a cluster could be structured. This would take a few days to a couple of weeks work. But I won't redirect my effort from other projects to do so unless at least one other person will start something similar on another aspect of C3 creation & customization.

Discussion about the evolving wiki (assuming one happens) can continue to take place here so that not everyone with productive comments need learn how to wiki.
 
In one sense what you ask for needs to arise organically - format & organization of a new reference resource that are useful can't be too narrowly defined before-hand. Also, an organization that makes sense for one area - such as scenario design, which can be a nebulous topic by nature - may not make sense for another - such as how to work with unit palettes, which needs as much specificity and organization as a cookbook or automotive manual. Links between articles and the C&C forum, categorization of articles into subjects/portals, etc. will necessarily evolve as the wiki-style communal editing goes on.

But you do rightly point out the need for some sort of coherence. As an overarching guideline I'd suggest that those who have successfully worked in an area (such as civilopedia editing) be the ones who guide the development of articles & vet their accuracy. There is also the consideration that the most creative people ought not to lose time better spent on their projects. And not all of us have either experience with making wiki articles or the time & willingness to learn the mechanics.

If there were a small group of us putting time in to add links, illustrations, etc. then sometimes the raw content could be plunked in with confidence that it will eventually be refined. "Raw content" meaning the transfer of text from specific posts to a wiki page. Those who have written informative posts are the logical ones to involve in this step. Even if all they do is post links here to their own posts that they feel have information worth including. Maybe as few as 2-3 editors/organizers to build on their work would get this project off the ground. I've written manuals & worked for several years as an editor/layout designer of publications. I've also got some experience with structuring linked content. OTOH, I'm one of those who would need to learn the mechanics of making wikis. I'm willing to function as an editor/stylist, but not solo.

A couple of sample articles - not all from a single author - may be a good way to focus discussion of article layout & the conceptual structure. I can put up at least a skeleton of the set of short articles on maps & terrain to show how a cluster could be structured. This would take a few days to a couple of weeks work. But I won't redirect my effort from other projects to do so unless at least one other person will start something similar on another aspect of C3 creation & customization.

Discussion about the evolving wiki (assuming one happens) can continue to take place here so that not everyone with productive comments need learn how to wiki.

... Much to think about ... :think:
 
I'd love to help but I'm already swamped, though I can propose this: Why not open several main articles/topics and leave it to the users to update them as they go? Might work.

Mind you, just very general topics, not much else.
 
and leave it to the users to update them as they go?
That's how a wiki works - ideally. So all we need are a set of users who are knowledgeable in the given topic & know how to wiki. With plenty of time to do the wiki editing. Including putting in the info posted by people who are no longer around.
I'd love to help but I'm already swamped
Did I mention the plenty of time part? "Hey Ares, will you please stop working on your terrain project so you can write up how you do it in the wiki. Hey tom2050, will you please stop converting all those units until you've laid out the basics in a wiki article." It could happen.

I'm working out a potential way to kick start the process, but I need a few days to think it through. If I can get the concept clear enough in my head to explain it we may be able to set up a way for people like Takhisis to be able to do a lot in a little time without having to get into the wiki end of it at all & let a couple of someones like me just to the wiki end of it.
 
I found a great way to find instructional posts was to survey my own list of attachments (who knew?) and I found a few posts that could be linked to:

Making larger or Taller Cities

A lot of Maps questions answered in this Thread

Bridges over rivers

How I used a grid to make a Map

Bridges between land masses

Barbarian Civs and unit lines - includes good side discussion of 'capture' and 'enslave'

Converting an image into a pcx image using GIMP

Where to put a scenario folder if you own Civilization Complete

Hope those are useful.

Now I have a request: recently someone posted a list of the order that Space Race pcxs are stacked in the Space Race screen. Now I can't find it. Anyone have a link to that?
 
That's how a wiki works - ideally. So all we need are a set of users who are knowledgeable in the given topic & know how to wiki. With plenty of time to do the wiki editing. Including putting in the info posted by people who are no longer around.
I've never wiki'd before (is that even a word? :crazyeye:)
Blue Monkey said:
Did I mention the plenty of time part? "Hey Ares, will you please stop working on your terrain project so you can write up how you do it in the wiki. Hey tom2050, will you please stop converting all those units until you've laid out the basics in a wiki article." It could happen.
Ah, I meant RL swamped. I should still manage to make time on Thursday and Monday nights assuming things don't go wackier than they are as of today.
Blue Monkey said:
I'm working out a potential way to kick start the process, but I need a few days to think it through. If I can get the concept clear enough in my head to explain it we may be able to set up a way for people like Takhisis to be able to do a lot in a little time without having to get into the wiki end of it at all & let a couple of someones like me just to the wiki end of it.
Take your time, we'll see what can be done (and what can't :p).
 
Well, there's a wiki on how to do things, including on how to start a wiki. Check out the associated articles, Cheatem!
 
Top Bottom