Design Thread - For Discussion and Review

GPuzzle said:

Seems very interesting (although I'd add a little more things involving Forests personally). However, is that ships sailing through rivers actually codable?

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Well. I guess i could ask one of the long time modders. I'm sure they would of tried it at some point, if it was though....

Hoop Thrower said:

I know it's normally not well seen to point out someone else is working on the same civ, but... your concept is pretty damn similar to Tomatekh's Kievan Rus.

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I tried to avoid that, and i don't think it is too similar. I guess the UU is similar.

I really like the UA. But the Druzhina seems kind of bland to me. The Lodya is interesting. Being able to use rivers would actually get me to build triremes.
Edit: I do believe there use to be a civ with a naval UU that used rivers. I'll see if I can find it.

Gotta post a design. Or more correctly a redesign:

Chola Empire(Rajendra Chola I)


Raja Raja I


If you don't think its good, I'll just post another design. There could be so many

The percentages on that first Chola civ make it look unnecesarily complicated... and it actually may be. Can't you simply give them a flat combat boost on sources of fresh water?

Also, wouldn't it be easier to simply have the civ have a start bias near a river?

Its suppose to point out the fact the Rajendra Chola built a huge artificial lake in his capital. Giving a flat boost.... Kinda sounds OP.

Nah, just give them a 10% bonus on Fresh water tiles. Less complicated, and more consistent.

It does seem complicated but I think a flat combat bonus is a bit bland.

It would if that was the only part of the UA. It's okay to have one bit of the UA that's a little bland.

It-doesnt-suit-Rajendra. He is one of my(if not the) favourite historical characters.

DonStamos said:

That's a good point.

I really REALLY like that Mansa Musa. (As well as your Arabia, Ottoman, Egypt and Byzantine splits - I definitely want to see the Byzantine one made sometime).

The Treasure Caravan just oozes flavor. Am I correct in guessing that Askia's current UA isn't really reflective of Songhai? I ask because yours is more peaceful than his is, and I like how you can tinker with your trade yields by investing in certain building types.

As for which to split next - how about Korea? Would love to see what you do with Silla, Goryeo, et al. Indonesia would be another interesting one.

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I'm surprised to see my Ottoman split there, aside from Ataturk that's like my least favourite! Keep meaning to revise the whole thing. Though I'm really glad you like Mansa Musa so much - it took a while to get right. The treasure caravan is definitely the defining feature, everything else was essentially balanced around the treasure caravan. Also I don't think the vanilla UA is necessarily not reflective of the Songhai - Askia *did* essentially conquer the Mali Empire and he was all round a pretty successful warmongerer, its just that I'd already split up the existing UA between Mali and Ghana so needed something different for Askias UA. I went with what I did because of the fame Timbuktu has since experienced as a byword for a far away exotic place of great wealth and otherworldy cultures. Timbuktu was the crossroads upon which the wealth of the world converged (hence the bonuses for trade routes to the capital) and benefited mainly from the huge civil projects undertaken by Askia and his successors, hence the bonuses from having lots of buildings across a sprawling empire. Korea sounds good for the next split, will post soon!

Hoop Thrower said:

Mansa Musa is actually the one that worries me the most, doesn't that Treasure Caravan ability simply allow you to snowball into getting more and more of themselves each time?

That coupled with the huge amount of Gold you gain each time could potentially mean a pretty gamebreaking feature.

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Well the amount of great merchant points you get from the trade mission remains constant, meaning that over time the effects of the trade mission would diminish since GMs get more costly. Its a fairly good metaphor for the steady decline of trans-sahran trade over time.

Ghana: Lots of good, fun ideas here. However, it feels a bit underpowered. Namely, it has a Faith and Gold focus but is lagging behind on Faith which is important for Gold generation. Maybe starting with an additional trade route would be helpful, or always knowing where Barbarian encampments are.

The UA has that slight problem where it's lacking on early faith, but alright.

UU seems incredibly fun, I'll be honest. Maybe a bonus while adjacent to Barbarians?

UB is pretty good, I enjoy it. Also, increasing Trade Route distance based on Desert tiles worked is very interesting.

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Added faith generation to the UA alongside the extra gold. Couple that with some good barbarian hunting and desert folklore, it should be more than enough faith generation to sustain the UA for a while. Thats a relatively simple fix which keeps the UA description from being too clunky.

So... Korea now then? Better get to it.

Also, Firebug, I like that Kiev. I don't know how possible it is, but its still super interesting as a concept. That said the unit embarkation stuff feels amiss, as does the extra naval production. River bonuses? Yes, very fitting. But naval bonuses aren't super appropriate given how little of the Kievan Rus' trade actually happened on the black or baltic seas, but almost entirely on the rivers. I'd rather see a UB or something related to river bonuses, and a slight adjustment of the trireme. (not least since, I don't see how it work as a melee unit on rivers - if it killed another unit would the game just spaz out? What about capturing cities?)

Alright well I'm planning to do a Navarre civ after I finish Iraq and I wanted to get some feedback about it.

Kingdom of Navarre

Leader: Sancho III

UA: Royal Basque Society: Cities with outgoing trade routes generate Cultural Great People points even if they do not have the appropriate building. Gain an additional trade route from each Great Person Guild.

UU: Aduanero: Replaces Rifleman: Stronger in friendly territory. When garrisoned in a city, increases gold from trade by 25%.

UB: Baserri: Replaces Colosseum. +1 food, +2 culture and a great work of writing slot that when filled gives +25% great person generation. After discovering Acoustics, a second Baserri can be built in cities which already have one. This second Baserri has the same yields as the original one, except that it has a great work of music slot instead.

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So I want to represent how the Basque region had a great amount of scientific and cultural development after they established trade with the New World colonies. The aduanero was a customs officer/soldier during the Carlist Wars which is why it increases trade income. The Baserris are the farmhouses that the Basques people live in. They're also places where the Basque language and culture is taught and preserved during times of persecution, such as Franco's dictatorship. I chose writing and music because those involve language and being able to build two represents the Exteberria, which were new Baserri that were built to farm New World crops like corn. What do you guys think of it?

Urdnot, when you'll do India....

Holy crap, your designs are great overall, Caesar. Genuinely impressed.

I'm putting that Kingdom of Navarre down in my "possible to-do list". I looove it!

Firebug said:

I'm putting that Kingdom of Navarre down in my "possible to-do list". I looove it!

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Uhmmm...

Uighur_Caesar said:

Alright well I'm planning to do a Navarre civ after I finish Iraq and I wanted to get some feedback about it.

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GPuzzle said:

Holy crap, your designs are great overall, Caesar. Genuinely impressed.

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Thanks so much!

Firebug said:

I'm putting that Kingdom of Navarre down in my "possible to-do list". I looove it!

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The only thing I really need for it is the Lua. Either way PM me about it if you're interested in doing a collab.

I suppose providing a new design can't hurt...

Ferdinand III:

UA: Fuero Juzgo - Religious Buildings and worked Holy Sites provide +10 XP. Gain Faith from winning battles.

UU: Hidalgo - Great General replacement. Increased movement. Can build Holy Sites, and when stationed in a city units produced in it recieve +15 XP and Military Buildings provide faith.

UU: Peones - Pikeman replacement. Generates Faith from kills. Starts with Great General II.

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Let's hope it doesn't completely suck.

What civ is that for?

Uighur_Caesar said:

What civ is that for?

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Castille and Léon, sorry. It's more for Ferdinand III specifically (Spanish king with the biggest conquests during the Reconquista, first Spanish king to be canonized, the Spanish king that united most of Spain via Castille and Léon).

I'm assuming Castile. One thing I notice straight away is that the second half of the UA and the UU have the same effects.

EDIT: Sniped, denied the chance to show off my prowess at the medieval Iberian kingdoms guessing game :'(