A Crazy Idea

I had a sleepless night last night, and this crazy idea for a scenario hit. Since my last three ideas either had a lot of mechanical problems to them I couldn't easily solve and/or failed to generate long-term interest in the forum after a certain, I thought maybe I'd throw out there a more exciting and outre idea. After all, if it doesn't catch I have a large stock of potential other ideas I may like to do, many of which are virgin Civ2 territory. Okay, here goes.

It's an alternate reality. The year is 1958. However, it is the worst possible circumstance. The darkest day. The sum of all fears. The Axis Powers have effectively won a decisive victory in WW2. I don't yet have a full alternate timeline of the march of tragedy, but it's pretty bad. However, though it may look bleak, it's not actually the end...

By this point (the culmination of a process already seen in the RW era) most of the areas effectively under Axis control are run through puppet or proxy states, run by like-minded native leaders with some autonomy, but under a firm, but not necessarily micro-managing hand. Only certain areas (such as most of the homelands of the major vanquished Allied powers and some other areas) are under direct occupation and administration by the major Axis Powers. Also, not all areas were bothered to be invaded and conquered; a South American Federation and four independent Islamic states (Turkey, a united monarchy on the Arabian Peninsula, Persia, and Afghanistan) all gave up without a fight at the end and were allowed to go about their business mostly so long as they didn't build significant armed forces or cause trouble for the Axis.

However, although their official governments and armed forces, major cities and centres of population, and industrial bases, have been defeated, there remain hold out remnants of the Allied Powers in the hinterlands preparing to seize the slim shadow of hope of grasping victories from the jaws of defeat. However, it's an uphill battle...

The Four Free Powers is the player civilization. These four groups are hold out bases and towns in the rural and wild regions and the US and Canada, a South African rebel republic to the South African proxy state installed by the Germans, Australian outback communities struggling against the Japanese Southern Skies Protectorate, and Jewish kibbutzim farmers in the former Palestine Mandate who took up arms after the fall of Egypt and the pro-Axis coup in the Kingdom of Iraq. There will be triggers to start local uprisings in China, the Philippines, the British Isles, and France, as well, and a few unorthodox tactics will be possible (like "recomissioning" Me-262's and PzKw VI's, privateering high seas shipping, and other things of that sort). Also, the successor state of the USSR, the Siberian Worker's State, which holds out in a rugged part of Siberia that due to terrain and climate, neither Germany nor Japan would fully defeat, is still out there and may honour it wartime alliance but, do to a crash in communications after the war, will have to be reconnected entirely. Also, a disastrous likely war between Germany and Japan, with Mussolini and emboldened German proxy states feeling they're not getting their fair share of the spoils, complicating things, could, if pushed, hasten the downfall of Fascist World Order.

This scenario, although definitely a post-WW2 alternate history, is meant to have the feeling of being up against a massive and monstrous of tyranny and imperialism that begins outgunning you in all ways to start with, much like the original Star Wars trilogy (without the Jedi element). Let me know what you think; if you like it, you think it's stupid, you think it couldn't work, etc.

I like the idea very much. Hasn't Curtsibling done something similar in the distant past?

Small bands of resistance can rise up against a larger, better equipped and financed enemy and grow into an army. Look at the Yugoslav Partisans, Mao's Peoples Army, the Viet Minh and Viet Cong or the Mujahadeen. I think this could be a really interesting scenario with ToTPP. The only thing that puts me off slightly is the world map meaning that Europe is so tiny.

Man on the high castle, I like it.

Actually, McMonkey, if I recall correctly (though I could be wrong), Curt's take on it (Vendetta, I believe) was seven nasty, mean civ's duking it out for world dominance. Even the American civ in that one was a paranoid, McCarthyite, oppressive regime I'm quite sure. Thus, as far as I know, thematically my idea is fairly distinct from Curt's work.

But yes, I do agree about ToTPP being a great help here. And the map thing does concern me too. I think a few maps for download out there are available that, while being geographically a bit askew, do disproportionately showcase Europe. I'll have a look around at the various giga world maps out there.

Yep reminded me of Vendetta ... hehe, fun times.

I had a similar idea that did not see much development. It is a spin-off of my fail-of-a-scenario "The Abyss'' (due to lack of operative skill back in 2011). Left 4 civs, gave them some better units and slapped a strarting date of 1960 along with some nuked terrain. Actually give it a look if you want. Named in honor of George Orwell's "Malabar front" mentioned in 1984. Does not has much potential therefore I am not dealing with it. Keep in mind that Giga maps may not be the best solution!

Personally I much prefer large maps of a single continent or nation to world maps, unless it is a colonialism type scenario or for multiplayer. I just find the playing area for land units way too small to be that interesting in single player mode. Just my personal preference.

I do agree with you there on princeiple, McMonkey. It's just that this particular idea can't be done in any way other than a world map, unless I think of some wonky way to chop the world into four pieces, multimap, and rig some travel mechanism between them that makes sense. Mind, any suggestions toward doing that within my idea's is, of course, welcome...

Actually, in that light, although the intermap travel mechanisms are still a bit murky, I think perhaps doing a Europe/Middle East/Central Asia/North Africa map (these maps are in great and easy supply out there), an East Asia/Pacific map (similar to my EotRS map, with some cropping), a North America map, and a South America/Subsaharan Africa map (with the Atlantic area between them). This possible division of maps is just an initial thought, and again, any advice on map travelling would be more than welcome.

McMonkey said:

Personally I much prefer large maps of a single continent or nation to world lyyymaps, unless it is a colonialism type scenario or for multiplayer. I just find the playing area for land units way too small to be that interesting in single player mode. Just my personal preference.

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I agree completey - larger the map the better. The AI is crap whether the map is small or big so it's up to the designer to generate gameplay with events

Okay, this initial units.bmp file is very much a hash, with, in many cases, what was most readily available, and I'm sure many of the infantry's firearms and such are horribly obsolete; in fact, I'm certain some are using 19th Century guns. However, it does give a general indication of what I'm looking at or aiming for. There are a few adjustments I would still love to make, but deciding what to trade out for what is a bit sticky at this point after numerous tough decisions already. If anyone has any advice or ideas, feel free to let me know.

Any thoughts on the initial selection of units I have (it's in a very early stage, so change is very easily possible)? I may have too many different infantry is what worries me, and I may be able to better group them together if stats and civ using them would be the same, even if they'd look different, but I'm not sure about that. I'm still mulling over how to handle the map issue which has been brought up.

Definitely a very unique idea, though a large scale campaign would be a bit overwhelming and considering that the Computer AI is not terribly effective at war fighting, it may be best to make this into smaller episodic serials?

Just a few serial ideas:

Episode 01:
Nothing Can Stop the Army Air Corps: Rebel American Pilots take to the skies in a flight of stolen WW2 Vintage ME 262's to lead a ground attack against a Nazi Laboratory producing a new strain of biological weapons.

Episode 02:
Making the Trains Run on Time: Canadian Rebels operating in the City of Winnipeg lead a daring raid on the former CNR yards of Winnipeg in an attempt to capture a high ranking SS Officer.

Episode 03:
You'll Go a Waltzing Matilda with Me: Australian.....etc etc.

Fairline said:

I agree completey - larger the map the better. The AI is crap whether the map is small or big so it's up to the designer to generate gameplay with events

Click to expand...

I don't agree. While events can drive gameplay, you can utilize the AI's strengths much more effectively on a small map. I used one to good effect in Operation Market Garden. On the other hand, in an exploration and empire building scenario, a larger map can be more fun.

I am planning to do a new ToT version Vendetta in 2016, two scenarios with the same premise would be interesting...

Although nazis do get a little tiresome in game culture...There is more evil around than just the typical Euro-villains in sharp feldgrau.

Some whacky scenario idea suggestions:

1) A reality where the Mongol empire never faded, and a hard-pressed New World republic must battle the Eternal Army of the God-Khan in a WW1 type era?
(You want the ultimate battle against a tyrannical empire? Here it is!)

2) A crusading war against zombies in our medieval world of 1300 or so? Stop their spread into Europe with pure STEEL!
(Muslims and Christian knight armies combine to fight, and share ideas...Imagine the tech tree!)

3) An alt-world scenario where you play the Republic of China in the 1960s, who has to defend democratic Korea from the Soviet menace?
(North Korea and China never went red in this world, due to the KMT winning the war)

4) The assassination of Caesar never succeeded, and he goes on to launch his invasion of the the East, and North! You are Octavian, and are charged with carrying out your uncle's bold plan!
(Imagine pushing the borders of Rome into the unknown, on a global scale map! Conqueror's heaven!)

Just a few! And as Tech says, for empire fun, the bigger the map, the better.

But we should try some new scenario areas, and concepts...WW2 is a little stale.
Alt-history is the core value of what CIV2 is about, in my humble view...

I had once thought, long ago, though wasn't certain of a timeframe, of a world where secular, enlightened, civil-rights-oriented governments never caught hold and the world was torn between vast theocratic empires: a Judeo-Christian, Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist (in it's militant warrior monk mold), Confucian (as in the mold of exalting "divine" emperors), Shinto (in a similar mold to Confucian, previously), and either a panshamanic or Mesoamerican-type, monoliths ruling to convert the whole globe to their religious point-of-view.

Religions as civs, quite a interesting idea...! Especially if you make each religion have equally attractive benefits...

Reminds me of a novel I read a while back about the world being ruled by the Egyptian gods, all nations picking one of the pantheon to follow...Good fun!

Sounds like a nightmarish world of ignorance and superstition Patine. Perfect for a Civ2 scenario

I'm not dead set on this idea, mind. It's one of many ideas I'm mulling over, so please, no one get married to it. I didn't get a chance to do my final playtest of KW yesterday, as I was quite busy. I hope to be able to do it today.

An interesting question, though, if I were to proceed with a religion-based scenario, is - what timeframe would be more interesting. Starting around the historical timeframe (but with a somewhat altered backstory) of the period of the Crusades, then into a Colonialesque period, and advancing to some point from there, or - even more frightening - starting in a pseudo-Modern period?

I would start off in the late dark ages and go through to the modern day. Good old school Civ2 game with a full tech tree!