C2C - Units
- Thread starter EldrinFal
- Start date
Yudishtira
Spiritual/Creative
Why are Cyborgs so cheap to build? They are 70% the cost of their predecessor (Android Inf), at 140% of the firepower. And their upgrades are only 20 and 30 strength up from them.
I suggest they should be strength 175 (down from 200), and around 50% more expensive in
I suggest they should be strength 175 (down from 200), and around 50% more expensive in
Yudishtira
Spiritual/Creative
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Why are Cyborgs so cheap to build? They are 70% the cost of their predecessor (Android Inf), at 140% of the firepower. And their upgrades are only 20 and 30 strength up from them.
I suggest they should be strength 175 (down from 200), and around 50% more expensive in
Walker Robot (85)||
||Chrome Infantry (100)
Automated Infantry(110)||
Warbot Infantry (120)||Clone Infantry (110)
Droid Infantry (130)|||
||Automaton (120)
Android Infantry (140)||Genetic Soldier (140)
|Cyborg (200)|
Sentroid Infantry (220)||Super Soldier (220)
Antroid Infantry (230)
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Last one should be Antroid Infantry.
Yudishtira
Spiritual/Creative
You're remaking my point rather than answering my question, are you not? To me your table implies that Cyborgs are too strong by 20-25
. And what the table does not show is that the Cyborg is substantially cheaper to build than its two predecessors.
What's with that???
. And what the table does not show is that the Cyborg is substantially cheaper to build than its two predecessors.What's with that???
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Those lines haven't been thoroughly reviewed... that's what's up with that (for now.) Classically Cyborgs were supposed to be cheap builds but that was in the Next War mod... Here I'm thinking a few new features can be used to balance out infantry lines. But I figured I'd just let it be for now since I can only look deeply at so many things at once.
Faustmouse
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 3,524
I would highly appreciate it if there were some cheap but weaker units on a certain tech level. This would be an interesting strategy, especially with size matters (yet hard to balance I guess).
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
You're remaking my point rather than answering my question, are you not? To me your table implies that Cyborgs are too strong by 20-25
What's with that???
I was not agreeing or disagreeing, just posting info. I kinda like your idea, but I don't know enough about balance to say either way. All of the Transhuman units from before C2C kinda got messed up when we redid the era so like the naval units they need some re-blancing and supplementing by other new units too (which we are doing).
In old RoM/AND the clone/automatons were supose to be the cheap dispensable units compared to the more expensive and more powerful mechs. However now we have androids and other robots in the mix too.
Cyborgs come at a time that crosses both clone and robotic lines. Android upgrading into Cyborgs and Automatons (Mind Controlled Clones) into Cyborgs. They however cross back out into Antroids and Super Soldiers. Which are both the peak of their lines.
Yudishtira
Spiritual/Creative
@Sparth
Can you please please sort out the buttons for me on these latest units (including the Transhuman ones).
The Haida and Dene UUs have no buttons as yet (ie. using generic/placeholder ones).
The Anthroid and Sentroid Infantry should use your existing Android Infantry button, because they use that model.
The Android Infantry should use your existing Droid Infantry button, because that is the model they use. (I could/should have changed those over but I was slack - sorry
)
You will be wanting to make new buttons for the Automated and Warbot Infantry.
The Droid Infantry already has a button which came with its new model, but you will no doubt wish to replace that with a 'standardized' one in due course.
Thanks muchly
. If you can't get to this anytime soon, let me know and I'll fix them up as best I can in the interim.
Can you please please sort out the buttons for me on these latest units (including the Transhuman ones).
The Haida and Dene UUs have no buttons as yet (ie. using generic/placeholder ones).
The Anthroid and Sentroid Infantry should use your existing Android Infantry button, because they use that model.
The Android Infantry should use your existing Droid Infantry button, because that is the model they use. (I could/should have changed those over but I was slack - sorry
)You will be wanting to make new buttons for the Automated and Warbot Infantry.
The Droid Infantry already has a button which came with its new model, but you will no doubt wish to replace that with a 'standardized' one in due course.
Thanks muchly
. If you can't get to this anytime soon, let me know and I'll fix them up as best I can in the interim.
Sparth
C2C Team Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2013
- Messages
- 2,314
Ok Ill try to fix these buttons ASAP.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Yeah, I'm not saying we should take away the cheap factor... both in build and maintenance costs. Just saying there's another element or two I want to eventually weave into them that will make their cheapness not just a counterbalance to low quality... that if used cleverly they can be much MORE powerful in the right roles.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Do you think the clone line should start out with a larger "Group Size" than normal?
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
You could see it that way - mass produced troops - or you could see it as higher quality as only the best of the best are ever cloned. Looking at it from this angle it would probably be a lesser group size and a step higher quality to compensate.
I'm thinking the whole 'infantry' line should also be extremely good at digging in to a fortified location, making them the best units to send out to form a defensive line.
I'm thinking the whole 'infantry' line should also be extremely good at digging in to a fortified location, making them the best units to send out to form a defensive line.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@TB
So which should be more mass produced? Robots/Androids or Clones? I could see arguments for both since one could just have a huge factory mass producing robots or mass vats of clones being grown at a rapid rate.
Both seem dispensable since you can just make more and both could be bred/programed to be experts in their tasks.
The difference seems to be the biological vs artificial advantages of each. However later in game those lines blur and they start to get the strengths (and even weaknesses) of each other.
So which should be more mass produced? Robots/Androids or Clones? I could see arguments for both since one could just have a huge factory mass producing robots or mass vats of clones being grown at a rapid rate.
Both seem dispensable since you can just make more and both could be bred/programed to be experts in their tasks.
The difference seems to be the biological vs artificial advantages of each. However later in game those lines blur and they start to get the strengths (and even weaknesses) of each other.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Quality would be more variable for robotic units. The more advanced the higher quality (and the more put into making them so lowering group sizes as the quality grows). At first they'd be fairly low quality even by human comparison.
Whereas clones, imo, would perhaps not be so replaceable as it may seem. Batches would take time to grow and train and be made of the best stock with genetic enhancements. Compared to a normal human, a step higher quality, a step lower group size (just for balance.)
It would also be true that biological and artificial strengths and weaknesses will certainly vary... trying to set some of that up in the naval stuff now. But it'll really come to fruition once equipments and then subsequently diseases are worked out.
Whereas clones, imo, would perhaps not be so replaceable as it may seem. Batches would take time to grow and train and be made of the best stock with genetic enhancements. Compared to a normal human, a step higher quality, a step lower group size (just for balance.)
It would also be true that biological and artificial strengths and weaknesses will certainly vary... trying to set some of that up in the naval stuff now. But it'll really come to fruition once equipments and then subsequently diseases are worked out.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Yudishtira
Another UU.
Jade Axeman
Graphic: (See Sparth's Post Above)
Icon: ?
Type: Melee (and stuff)
Strength: 4
Movement: 1
Cost: 35
Req Tech: Obsidian Weapons
Req Resource: Liangzhu AND Jade
Req Building: -
Upgrades To: Axeman
Special Abilities
Notes: Use Obsidian Axeman as a Base.
---
Thanks!
Another UU.
Jade Axeman
Graphic: (See Sparth's Post Above)
Icon: ?
Type: Melee (and stuff)
Strength: 4
Movement: 1
Cost: 35
Req Tech: Obsidian Weapons
Req Resource: Liangzhu AND Jade
Req Building: -
Upgrades To: Axeman
Special Abilities
- National Unit (15 Allowed)
- +50% vs Melee
- Starts with Wetland Combat I, Wetland Combat II
Notes: Use Obsidian Axeman as a Base.
---
Thanks!
Sparth
C2C Team Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2013
- Messages
- 2,314
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
@Yudishtira
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Thanks!
Thx for all your hardwork and great ethics here, i really appreciate it, thx.
