I think the Koa (Polynesian Culture Unit) needs to be brought down in Strength a bit. It's currently 7 Strength, which is a lot for the late Prehistoric Era. 5 Strength seems like enough, coupled with +20% City Attack and Shock. (Judging by the text, it's supposed to be a Light Swordsman equivalent, but it's two eras early.)
C2C - Units
- Thread starter EldrinFal
- Start date
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
But the Oceania Civs have hardly any units. They should get at least one powerful one since they get hardly any choices in cultures to get.
But not THAT powerful. 7 Strength and Shock overpowers everything else in the Prehistoric era. Most Culture Units get 2-3 benefits over the corresponding base unit, but they still have the same limitations. The Koa has one benefit (Shock), ignores other resource requirements (an equal benefit), and ignores an entire era's worth of technologies. I would easily build them at 6 Strength and would probably do so at 5. There's a few American Culture units that have the same issue.
I think there's still also a lot of room for adding additional Oceanian cultures, or maybe even giving Oceanian cultures additional units to make up for the lack of total cultures. Polynesian could have the Koa and the Waka (oceangoing canoe).
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
But they Koa has a frick'n Shark Toothed Sword! 
CIVPlayer8
Prince
Thought I better warn someone, but the "Tamed Lion" and "Tamed Panther" etc. etc. are not in the Animals category, they're not in any at all, so we can't use hunters as a counter to these units.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Which should have been reported in the bug area.
I will look into it. The whole tamed animals needs some looking into. They were included because they look cool, and the Biodome wonder needs to create something. However the unit itself is not fitting in well with the others, like the trained dog line, which it should. They are also still losing their trainer if you load a game.Which should have been reported in the bug area.
The reason is that currently there are AI issues if any unit tagged as animal has any AI type other than AI_ANIMAL (which is inappropriate for the tamed ones). That's the same reason why subdued animals are not animals.
It needs rework of some of the AI to handle this (it's down to animals not being able to move inside owned territory I think)
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Indeed they are not animals and can't be if they are to be able to move inside cultural borders. This means that the hunter line will not get any bonuses against them.
The units had NONE as their default unit AI. I have changed to to the same as the dog line and added in the same other Unit AIs. I have also upped the cost to match their strength. I did not realise how cheap they were. They can also build cages and some other buildings.
I think the better solution to this would be to add more cultures, rather then make a few with good benefits, I rarely play anything other then European because chances are I will not get the resources I need for Asian/Oceania and American has a few of theirs locked behind needing euro culture last time I checked.
The best way to do it imo would be to make every resource give a culture, perhaps link some resources to multiple cultures, for instance, British currently needs apples for their culture, but what if it was apples, deer, or prime timber, but with that I would also say a limit of one culture per a city.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Rasma
I have a ton more cultures to do, its hard enough picking one resource for a culture. Plus I need room for future cultures. Oceania is always going to have less cultures than the rest of the regions. Asia has a good amount of cultures BTW. Its one of the most spread out ones due to it having polar, temperate and tropical resources.
So far ...
- African = 24 Cultures
- American = 33 Cultures
- Asian = 22 Cultures
- European = 26 Cultures
- Middle Eastern = 14 Cultures
- Oceanian = 7 Cultures
I have a ton more cultures to do, its hard enough picking one resource for a culture. Plus I need room for future cultures. Oceania is always going to have less cultures than the rest of the regions. Asia has a good amount of cultures BTW. Its one of the most spread out ones due to it having polar, temperate and tropical resources.
So far ...
- African = 24 Cultures
- American = 33 Cultures
- Asian = 22 Cultures
- European = 26 Cultures
- Middle Eastern = 14 Cultures
- Oceanian = 7 Cultures
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I'll take a look at this very soon. This is one of my current areas of focus really. I'll need to have animal AI's working properly to complete my current goals. I might even split up animal ai's, as previously conceived, into various 'attitudes'. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the bonuses that hunters get are towards the unitcombatclass, not the ai, right? The AI just handles the actions and intentions of the unit where the combatclass is generally what is acted on for bonuses vs such as what hunters receive, right? Aren't Hunters getting a bonus vs TRAINED animals, which is the difference between barbarian animals and non-barbarian animals? I used to know a lot more about this when I was here before but I've forgotten a little in the interrim. I'll be reviewing it all again very soon.
What cultures do you need resource ideas for out of curiosity?
But I still think that the fewer culture civs should be given more resource options for what they require, or also, perhaps merge Oceania with Asia, and merge middle eastern into Europe/African
That would give everyone around 30 options
And Oceania seems too small to be on its own that is why I would say merge it to Asia.
As for middle east/Africa/Europe I would say the main reason is that middle east doesn't have many cultures and they are culturally close with Europe in some parts. And giving Africa what didn't fit in with Europe would give Africa more options.
It just seems odd to me to give them such limited options when others have so much more.
But I still think that the fewer culture civs should be given more resource options for what they require, or also, perhaps merge Oceania with Asia, and merge middle eastern into Europe/African
That would give everyone around 30 options
And Oceania seems too small to be on its own that is why I would say merge it to Asia.
As for middle east/Africa/Europe I would say the main reason is that middle east doesn't have many cultures and they are culturally close with Europe in some parts. And giving Africa what didn't fit in with Europe would give Africa more options.
It just seems odd to me to give them such limited options when others have so much more.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Well my next set of 20 cultures are ...
- Arawak [American]
- Belgian [European] (Chocolate?)
- Choson [Asian]
- Confederates [American]
- Dahomey [African]
- Dene [American] (Seals?)
- Haida [American]
- Irish [European] (Potatoes)
- Jomon [Asian]
- Moche [American]
- Nazca [American]
- New Zealand [Oceanian] (Sheep)
- Saddasnian [Middle Eastern]
- Scythian [European]
- Shang [Asian]
- Siberian [Asian]
- Spartan [European]
- Trojan [European]
- Xiongunese [Asian]
- Yamato [Asian]
You can see what civ has what resource here.
Though assimilation you can gain access to all cultures. Not all regions are equal. Making them all the same amount would be boring. If you want more of a challenge play as an Oceanian civ. If you want an easy way play as an American civ.
Note I still may split up American into North American and South American at some point.
Personally, I don't play with assimilation.
But if the idea is to give access to all of them through assimilation then why require assimilation to be turned on to do so?
And if you divide North America and South America I would say divide East and West Europe as they have historically been quiet different from what I know.
Anyways as for new cultures here are my ideas
I would also say dump the requirement for foreign cultures to get some of them. Forcing a player to go and find an ai city, with the required resource, and then take it, and hope the ai put it in a close/good spot, and then need to get the resource to make the parent culture, seems a tad much, why not just make them like other cultures?
I mean honestly a lot of cultures evolved from others, setting a few apart because they came later seems odd. Unless cultures can be traded like other resources, then it is just a matter of will the ai trade it.
Also after looking it over, Canadian should require British not French, if you want french Canada perhaps make it Quebecois.
- Arawak [American]
- Belgian [European]
- Choson [Asian]
- Confederates [American] Cotton
- Dahomey [African]
- Dene [American]
- Haida [American]
- Irish [European] (Potatoes)
- Jomon [Asian]
- Moche [American]
- Nazca [American]
- New Zealand [Oceanian] (Sheep)
- Saddasnian [Middle Eastern]
- Scythian [European] Horses (But might actually fall under Middle eastern)
- Shang [Asian]
- Siberian [Asian] (Depends on which Siberian tribe you wanna represent but probably a cold climate animal)
- Spartan [European] Iron or Copper (how is it different from Greek?)
- Trojan [European]
- Xiongunese [Asian]
- Yamato [Asian] (how is this different from Japanese?)
But if the idea is to give access to all of them through assimilation then why require assimilation to be turned on to do so?
And if you divide North America and South America I would say divide East and West Europe as they have historically been quiet different from what I know.
Anyways as for new cultures here are my ideas
I would also say dump the requirement for foreign cultures to get some of them. Forcing a player to go and find an ai city, with the required resource, and then take it, and hope the ai put it in a close/good spot, and then need to get the resource to make the parent culture, seems a tad much, why not just make them like other cultures?
I mean honestly a lot of cultures evolved from others, setting a few apart because they came later seems odd. Unless cultures can be traded like other resources, then it is just a matter of will the ai trade it.
Also after looking it over, Canadian should require British not French, if you want french Canada perhaps make it Quebecois.
- Arawak [American]
- Belgian [European]
- Choson [Asian]
- Confederates [American] Cotton
- Dahomey [African]
- Dene [American]
- Haida [American]
- Irish [European] (Potatoes)
- Jomon [Asian]
- Moche [American]
- Nazca [American]
- New Zealand [Oceanian] (Sheep)
- Saddasnian [Middle Eastern]
- Scythian [European] Horses (But might actually fall under Middle eastern)
- Shang [Asian]
- Siberian [Asian] (Depends on which Siberian tribe you wanna represent but probably a cold climate animal)
- Spartan [European] Iron or Copper (how is it different from Greek?)
- Trojan [European]
- Xiongunese [Asian]
- Yamato [Asian] (how is this different from Japanese?)
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I was trying to separate some early cultures from the contemporary cultures for example ...
Yamato -> Japanese
Roman -> Italian
Choson -> Korean
Franks -> French
Toltec -> Aztec
and so on. So if and when we eventually have the cultures evolve into each other we have some base cultures. One big complaint was that we did not have enough early game cultures for European and Asian, while Amercans, Africans and Oceanians had a lot of early game cultures.
Yamato -> Japanese
Roman -> Italian
Choson -> Korean
Franks -> French
Toltec -> Aztec
and so on. So if and when we eventually have the cultures evolve into each other we have some base cultures. One big complaint was that we did not have enough early game cultures for European and Asian, while Amercans, Africans and Oceanians had a lot of early game cultures.
that is an interesting idea, have old cultures become newer ones.
That would open up a lot of earlier european and asians ones, and add more/new american and african ones.
Oceania still needs some form of cultures boost though, what about adding pacific islanders to them?
Such as the Hawaiians, Rapanui, ect.
That would open up a lot of earlier european and asians ones, and add more/new american and african ones.
Oceania still needs some form of cultures boost though, what about adding pacific islanders to them?
Such as the Hawaiians, Rapanui, ect.
On the other hand, european and middle eastern have many of the earliest national heroes that can construct the achievement buildings while american (never played oceanian yet but I guess it can only be worse there) struggle with that I found.
Azurian
The Azurian
Well North and South America are different continents..maybe Oceania can get more cultures from the future a couple of "Marine Architecture" and "Marine Colonization" civilizations.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I want to get though most of the real ones before adding future ones.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Sorry, yesterday was not a good day.
1) Hunter line gets bonuses against animals, ie those units with animal tag set to 1 which also means "can't enter areas owned by someone"
2) Combat bonuses can be against combat classes. There are none of these on the Hunter units but may be on the promotions they get.
3) Wild animals, subdued animals, tame animals and canine units have UNITCOMBAT_ANIMAL.
4) wild animals are barbarian animals BUT barbarians may have any of the others also.
5) The AI handles the actions for the bases on what is in the DefaultUnitAI, UnitAIs and UnitNotAI tags. Subdues animals have a default uint AI of UNITAI_SUBDUED_ANIMAL the rest have UNITAI_ANIMAL or UNITAI_MELLEE
