NiGHTS: General Discussion

Version 5 of NiGHTS released to Downloads/Modpacks section of Civfanatics!

Optimized for the latest 1.0.1.217 Patch.

Updated to include Spain, Inca, and Babylon along with custom traits, starting techs, and integrated Unrest for their unique military units.
 
Did you keep the 2 tile city distance intentionally, or is that a bug?
 
Did you keep the 2 tile city distance intentionally, or is that a bug?

I kept it - not a bug. Could easily change it if the majority prefer a 3 tile distance. The AI expands much quicker in NiGHTS so I think a 3 tile city distance might prove too difficult, especially on smaller maps.
 
I'm having fun with version 5 so far. I do find, though, that playing on Easy I don't have enough things to build and I'm pretty much forced to churn out warriors. Is it because I didn't choose the "best" research path, so I got hamstrung on production choices? Thanks.
 
I'm having fun with version 5 so far. I do find, though, that playing on Easy I don't have enough things to build and I'm pretty much forced to churn out warriors. Is it because I didn't choose the "best" research path, so I got hamstrung on production choices? Thanks.

This is a definately possible. Overall theres more buildings in NiGHTS than vanilla by around 40-50 so this shouldn't be a huge issue over the course of the game.

What game speed are you playing on?

Also, I may have to look at scaling up production costs if this is happening on standard. V6 or V7 will introduce a new feature regarding buildings that will ensure you're never lacking things to build. Thanks for the feedback:)
 
I think I would love your mod based on what I read in the description. I have 2 questions

1) Is it compatible with Sneaks' WWGD mod?

2) What are the added actions that make your relationship with the AI better? (I'd like a detailed list if possible)

Thanks in advance and keep up the good work.
 
I think I would love your mod based on what I read in the description. I have 2 questions

1) Is it compatible with Sneaks' WWGD mod?

2) What are the added actions that make your relationship with the AI better? (I'd like a detailed list if possible)

Thanks in advance and keep up the good work.

Currently it's probably not compatible with WWGD but this may change. I'll post a detailed lis of added actions when I get home from work:)
 
Version 5 of NiGHTS introduces some new tweaks in regards to AI Diplomacy. Here's an outline of the changes that you will encounter.

DIPLOMACY CHANGES

1. DEMANDS are now treated and documented in-game as REQUESTS.
  • The AI will still make DEMANDS and REQUESTS of you but you are now limited to making REQUESTS.
  • You do NOT suffer a hit to relations whether the AI accepts or disapproves your REQUEST.
  • The AI has new custom dialogue for both accepting and refusing a REQUEST.

2. DECLARATIONS OF FRIENDSHIP are now treated and documented in-game as TRADE AGREEMENTS.
  • TRADE AGREEMENTS and REQUESTS improve relations with the AI when accepted or declined in a favorable manner.

3. GUARDED and AFRAID
  • These two statuses have been replaced with ANNOYED and PLEASED and are based on your numerical relationship.

IMPROVING AI RELATIONSHIPS

1. Your actions have a numerical effect on a (-10) to (+10) scale.
  • These numbers have been modified from the core rules where almost all actions had a negative effect anywhere from (-10 for early on in the game going for the same victory type) to (-100 for being an extreme Warmonger).
2. In Vanilla CIV 5, there are only 4 ways to improve relations with the AI.
  • By returning a unit to them.
  • By signing a Declaration of Friendship with them.
  • By signing a Declaration of Friendship with someone they are friends with.
  • By Denouncing an AI that they do not like.
3. NiGHTS modifies actions that previously gave a negative hit to relations with a positive hit in addition to the 4 Vanilla ways.
  • (+10) for signing a Trade Agreement.
  • (+5) for returning a Civilian.
  • (+5) for signing a Trade Agreement with one of the AI's friends.
  • (+5) for Denouncing a mutual enemy.
  • (+5) for being at peace for a number of years - (a random amount, could be low as 1 year).
  • (+2) up to (+4) for creating Wonders that the AI admires you for.
  • (+2) up to (+4) for being friends with City-States they are also friends with.
  • (+1) for being their main rival in regards to what Victory type they are going for.
  • (+1) for completing or attempting to complete a trade.
  • (+1) for being in awe/afraid of your Military.
  • (+1) for the AI wanting to initiate Trades with you (completely random).

4. Thresholds
  • These are minimum thresholds that must be reached for AI reactions to (possibly - not probably), trigger.
  • They will not necessarily trigger because there are randomizers at play behind the scenes revolving around AI approach types, flavors, and an outright randomness percentage.
  • I am attempting to minimize/eliminate these values so that what you see numerically is definitive in the eyes of the AI.
  • At (-5) the AI sees you as a Competitor - this may affect relations in a negative.
  • At (-8) the AI sees you as an Enemy - this will probably affect relations in a negative way.
  • At (-10) the AI sees you as an Unforgivable Enemy - this will affect your relations in a negative way.
  • At (+10) the AI will see you as an Ally.
  • At (+8) the AI will see you as a Friend.
  • At (+5) the AI will see you as someone they look favorably on.
  • In Vanilla CIV 5 the Thresholds that must be reached to trigger possible actions are (-50)(-30)(-10) and (+10)(+30)(+50).

This is why it is almost impossible to maintain a positive relationship with the AI as there are over 30 ways that you can negatively affect AI relationships compared to only 4 that can positively affect AI relationships. Throw in chain-reaction Denouncements and you can quickly spiral into a game of never-ending war with multiple AI's. I have minimized all values regarding negative hits to AI relationships and removed many others -ie- the AI no longer gets mad at you for expanding too far when they are still on the other side of the continent. Once I tackle the elements of randomness, the AI should behave in a manner that is more easily readable and less cloak and dagger.

I will post a complete list of changes to the cover-thread over the next couple of days. Debate is welcomed over what values you think your actions should have, if any. This is merely another element of the game that will need some balancing.

Currently NiGHTS will conflict with WWGD? to a limited extent as we mod some of the same files. I may tweak my XML so that the two can be merged successfully after I read over some of the changes that he has made.
 
I kept it - not a bug. Could easily change it if the majority prefer a 3 tile distance. The AI expands much quicker in NiGHTS so I think a 3 tile city distance might prove too difficult, especially on smaller maps.

Hmm, which file holds this, so that those interested might give the 3 tile distance a try?
 
Like the mod :goodjob: (I have the latest version.) I think I found a bug -- Aluminum Factory doesn't have a shot for the specialist? (I'm only 2 techs from the end of the first game.)

Something strange happened somewhere around 7 techs from the end in that the ability to build frigates and caravels disappeared from my list of city built units (I wasn't looking all that closely, just needed to build one and it was gone.) I could still build a trireme and upgrade it.

I still don't understand what I have to do to get the +1 extra stability on the Oligarchy Advanced Economy -- is it trade routes between cities or trade agreements between civs, or open borders?

Also I saw in the log in window that there is a Polynesian civ available. If I download that will that break your mod?

Thanks.:)
 
Like the mod :goodjob: (I have the latest version.) I think I found a bug -- Aluminum Factory doesn't have a shot for the specialist? (I'm only 2 techs from the end of the first game.)

Something strange happened somewhere around 7 techs from the end in that the ability to build frigates and caravels disappeared from my list of city built units (I wasn't looking all that closely, just needed to build one and it was gone.) I could still build a trireme and upgrade it.

I still don't understand what I have to do to get the +1 extra stability on the Oligarchy Advanced Economy -- is it trade routes between cities or trade agreements between civs, or open borders?

Also I saw in the log in window that there is a Polynesian civ available. If I download that will that break your mod?

Thanks.:)

Polynesia wont break the mod but they wont be optimized as far as starting techs and traits. Some techs obsolete earlier buildings and units and I need to update these. Advanced economy might be unstable after the patch so I'll probably tweak that policy.

Thanks for the info on the factory - just a missing xml on my part that I'll fix for this weekend.
 
Hmm, which file holds this, so that those interested might give the 3 tile distance a try?

It's at the top of Rules_1.xml

<Defines>
<Update>
<Where Name="MIN_CITY_RANGE"/>
<Set Value="2"/>
</Update>
<Defines>

Change the 2 to 3 or whatever number you want:)
 
One last question: is science victory, building spaceship parts enabled. I keep researching future tech (I never played science victory in Civ V, only know how it worked in civ 4) and it counts down skips backward, counts down again etc. and never unlocks the spaceship parts in the build list (nor the crazy giant robot either.) I have a few spaceship factories built.

Thanks again.
 
One last question: is science victory, building spaceship parts enabled. I keep researching future tech (I never played science victory in Civ V, only know how it worked in civ 4) and it counts down skips backward, counts down again etc. and never unlocks the spaceship parts in the build list (nor the crazy giant robot either.) I have a few spaceship factories built.

Thanks again.

That's odd - Science Victories were working fine before the patch. I'll take a look at what's going on there. A fix probably won't be uploaded until Saturday or Sunday as I'll be out of town tomorrow. What year are/were you in when you first researched Future Tech? If it came too fast I may have to adjust/balance Tech costs.

As for the update to V6 itself, it will include a few other minor big fixes and the inclusion of Polynesia. V7 or V8 is looking like it's going to be another massive update - probably larger in scope than the addition of Specialists - so stay tuned.:)
 
UPDATE NOTES:
  • V6 will be released sometime late Saturday/Sunday.
  • Will fix some minor tool-tip bugs, add Polynesia and it's attributes into the Unrest/Stability System.
  • Depending on feedback I get, may push some Modern Techs into a future expansion and re-install any currently disabled Ancient-Industrial Era Techs for better balance, less focus on current end game military units.

I plan on eventually releasing a second phase to NiGHTS that extends the Tech Pyramid outwards from the currently named Future Tech so that the Pyramid will become a large X in shape. In order for this to happen I will probably end up shifting current military units and technologies towards the end of the modern era into this new part of the Pyramid. This will mean that NiGHTS in it's current form will likely taper off around the late 20th century/present, (still the same amount of Techs, just prolonged), until I begin the progression towards actual Future Techs.

I think I could end up balancing the game better in this way as currently, end game units clutter up end-game Techs, (much the same as in Vanilla CiV), which generally pigeon-hole the player towards a warring strategy, or at the very least, an arms race. I would like the current end game to focus more on the builder side of gameplay with an emphasis on establishing a base economy which will then propel you into a Future branch of Techs that will re-install more of the warring aspects of the game.

I was curious on people's thoughts on this matter. Do you prefer the Specialist/Building/Government side of the game, or would you prefer I focus more on the military side of things in future updates?
 
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