Wow, Indonesia...
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Just started to play Indonesia. Don't think they are powerful but don't think they are weak either.
I love going for cultural victory and their UB generates an insane amount of faith. I purchased 4 musicians post-internet with faith and was able to do a 44K tourism bomb on the culture leader. Still had lots faith left over. This was on King level though.
I don't really like their UA. I play continents plus, and usually most of the small islands are taken up by CS so there is nowhere decent to settle.
I love going for cultural victory and their UB generates an insane amount of faith. I purchased 4 musicians post-internet with faith and was able to do a 44K tourism bomb on the culture leader. Still had lots faith left over. This was on King level though.
I don't really like their UA. I play continents plus, and usually most of the small islands are taken up by CS so there is nowhere decent to settle.
Merciorum
Prince
Like many civs, Indonesia is powerful on some maps, but not on others. It's situational, which is not a bad thing, as all situational civs have redeeming features on all maps; in this case, the Candi and the Kris. The Kris is not about luck, despite the random element; if you plan ahead and take the luck into account, then it becomes more about skill again.
And on an archipelago map, it's great. Why does every civ have to be built around continents/pangaea? Zulu has few bonuses on an archipelago, if the opponent has a strong navy; Shoshone can (though not always) be weak on such maps. A lot of civs are situational, we just don't see it that way when they're geared for land-heavy maps.
And on an archipelago map, it's great. Why does every civ have to be built around continents/pangaea? Zulu has few bonuses on an archipelago, if the opponent has a strong navy; Shoshone can (though not always) be weak on such maps. A lot of civs are situational, we just don't see it that way when they're geared for land-heavy maps.
While I agree not everything is about Pangaea, I tend to discount Archipelago. The AI is just so, SO bad with water and there's so many Civs that are inconvenienced by it. My preferred maps are typically Continents/Small Continents because they involve both land and water.
Anyway, about Indonesia: they get way more flak than they deserve. Kris Swords can get some incredibly ridiculous promotions. Build a few extra Kris and disband the suckers that get Evil Spirits. Invulnerability or Restlessness are just obscenely good, better than T3 promotions and yet available a ~5xp with no opportunity cost.
UB is pretty sweet: a Garden that can go anywhere and that generates a ton of Faith is useful in my books. Minimum that a Candi generates is 4 faith from 2 base and 2 from your own religion. Typical is 6 once you add a religion picked up from a neighbor's trade route. 8-10 is pretty easy if you play around with captured missionaries or trade routes.
UA is okay - I consider it a midgame bonus and don't kill myself trying to settle offshore early. It's really best when you can extort the best price out of a good friend. I can imagine it being fun in MP when multiple civs are having cities get cravings for nutmeg/cloves/pepper and can only possibly get it from you.
killmeplease
Mk Z on Steam
I find Candy the main advantage of Indonesia. Its faith output is just insane. With a shrine, a temple and org religion you get +5 faith per city (well if you have enough gold to maintain temples), candy almost doubles it with no effort and after you get more religions you would triple a typical piety civ city faith output. Island luxes are just an icing on the cake. You cant rely on UA, i tried several games and never saw any islands before astronomy.
I think its ideal for aggressive rexing and domination/culture victory. I found it extremely helpful to capture a couple of rival holy cities to create missionaries there and spread those religions to your cities. This way you can control the 2nd pantheon. E.g. i started with tears of god to generate faith, but later i captured Shohone capital and spreaded protestantism to my coastal cities to have this awesome god of the sea there.
I think its ideal for aggressive rexing and domination/culture victory. I found it extremely helpful to capture a couple of rival holy cities to create missionaries there and spread those religions to your cities. This way you can control the 2nd pantheon. E.g. i started with tears of god to generate faith, but later i captured Shohone capital and spreaded protestantism to my coastal cities to have this awesome god of the sea there.
quick question, does Indonesia get the unique luxes plus whatever the terrain gives?
and where can I find the available promotions for kris? I just looked at civilopedia and there's some random stuff with enemy blade or something...
nvm found them on reddit. I gotta say the RNG is strong here, and I wouldn't want to use them and put them in battle to find out the promotions.
and where can I find the available promotions for kris? I just looked at civilopedia and there's some random stuff with enemy blade or something...
nvm found them on reddit. I gotta say the RNG is strong here, and I wouldn't want to use them and put them in battle to find out the promotions.
I only tried Indonesia a couple times, and both were small continents. Seem to me that the UA means that anything other than archipelago requires going wide.
No! Any terrain feature will be lost to the UA.
First page of this thread (spoiler of post 11 to be exact).
No! Any terrain feature will be lost to the UA.
First page of this thread (spoiler of post 11 to be exact).
The restriction applies only to founding on a lux or strategic.
LoneRebel
Emperor
I'm pretty sure DeletedSettler was being sarcastic.
Antagonise
Warlord
Indonesia is a great civ that is really fun to play, and very unique. The UA is amazing, but useless on the wrong maps. The Candi is a great building that generates insane amounts of faith, and can also be built in any city unlike a garden. This means you can build your guilds in non-fresh water cities! The UU can be fun and very powerful, but isn't as good as the other two uniques.
59saintdane
Warlord
- Joined
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Carthage's not bad. The free harbors save a lot of worker turns and gold per turn in maintenance. The other things about them are somewhat worthless.
Dutch can net some nice early game gold from their UA. Polders are great but situational; Sea Beggars are great but melee and require coast. Solid mid-tier imo.
Inca I don't have either but the UA seems pretty awsome, also terrace farms are great if you have mountains.
I disagree with this. If, by design, the UA/UB/UU are not able to all be used in a single (non-pangeaea) game, that would be very bad. But maybe you just mean Indonesia is worth playing more than once?
I dont think there is any synergy among the UA/UB/UU, but I agree with you that all three are strong. The majority of the civs are like that though, so its not particularly noteworthy. Compared to Sweden, where the uniques require both DOFs and constant warfare, Indonesia is straightforward to play!
PreLynMax
Your Lord and Master
I think you read Indonesia's UA wrong. I read if you build 3 cities on continents other than its own, you get luxuries and those cities cannot be razed.
The three cities have to on different land masses from the capital and from each other -- I.e., 4 land masses in total. And islands count.
PreLynMax
Your Lord and Master
But I think he still build on his own continent. While as his ability does shine on small continents/archipelago maps it usually slightly only can change one's strategy in earth-style maps (I only play earth-style maps) in the mid/late game when colonizing.
Sure, but cities on the same landmass don't get a unique luxury, so no benefit from the UA. Of course you can always play a civ in a way that ignores its UA (never work scientist slots as Babylon, never attack CSs as Mongols, etc.), but why do that? Just play a different civ.
Found a city by the mountains and have several 2 hammer 6-7 food hill tiles that's pretty much impossible to capture
I'm in the middle of a game as Indonesia now and it's been great for me. The UA means no happiness problems when settling cities. I was able to self-found 6 cities, and that's with three of them being on the same continent. One of them is over on another continent with some other Civs, then there's a couple small island ones. It's been pretty easy for me to spread my religion all over and I got it passed as the world religion in the congress. The Kris Swordsman promotion thing wasn't much of a factor in my game. I didn't really need many melee units in that era, so I only ended up with 3 of them. 2 of them got the "Great General" promotion and the other got the one that gives a bonus on offense but a negative to defense. It was cool after I promoted them up to Great War Infantry, but they ended up dying anyway.
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