[MOD] Fall from Heaven
- Thread starter Kael
- Start date
Hello guys,
I've been playing Kael's mod for several days now and I have to agree that it is truly a great piece of work with a lot of potential. Way to go. I hope I can be helpful in some way.
Several issues:
- Spiral Minaret doesn't work as supposed to. It may a minor problem for it is not sure whether it will make into the final version, but still, kind of annoying to spend time building a world wonder which does nothing. Some other wonders don't work as supposed as well, but I believe they've been mentioned already
- I support the idea of priests spreading religions - when disciples are no longer available (happened to me when concentrated on Ashen Veil and could build mages as well - disciples could not be build unless city didn't have a library or I gave away my reagents) there is virtually no way of making the enemies more friendly
- While playing as Hatshepsut on Noble and having Veil I had to carefully ballance expenses all the time to have money - yet when I played Qin and had Runes as my religion I produced way too much money. They were useful though cause I could afford buildings
- With so many civics Spiritual trait seems to be a bit overpowered since it gives bonus to all the priests as well - I could change civics at about any time and didn't have to think about twice. On the other hand philosophical became kind of poor giving only 50% bonus... Creative is also great since 2 extra points of culture mean a lot in this mod. Maybe too much.
- Maceman are overpowered, but that's been mentioned already as well.
- If not discovered by a human Veil and Order come to life far too late - it happened I waited over 150 turns after development of three 'basic' religions since the AI adopted one of those...
- The idea of Monotheism seems to be a problem. We have a pantheon of gods who somehow relate to each other and even influence the mortals, yet a whole group of people decides not to believe in the existance of the other gods? If the followers of Order would disregard the existance of Veil it would make their 'crusade' rather pointless. It's just like a group of ancient greeks who would cease to believe in existance of other gods so they could concentrate on following Zeus only. Just a thought.
On the mod development:
Generally, I full-heartedly support the idea of having multiple human civilizations with each one choosing with whom to ally with (dwarves, elves, overlords, creatures of the ether or angelic beings). It would give much more flexibility than race-oriented civs. Still, there could be some themed civs (each time I look at Montezuma he reminds me of some crazed woodelf follower
) with appropriate names and leaders.
Another thought, would it be possible to somehow disallow a civ which discovered one of the religious techs to research the other? After all most often it is that we try to adopt (and spread) the religion we found. It would make the choice to be much more though over and no single civ being allowed to start with more than one holy city. And with the 'or' requirements some techs could require only one of the religious techs to be discovered.
And about the proposed civs, I don't think that names 'The Undead' and 'The Shadow Demons' are inappropriate. Octopus Overlords remind me of Chtulhu mythos so I believe 'Old Ones' or something similar would do... As for the followers of Ashen Veil - they give the impression of being more concerned with all kinds of dark magicks, not just necromancy. 'The Cabal' or something in that fashion maybe?
Waiting for your replies
Cheers
I've been playing Kael's mod for several days now and I have to agree that it is truly a great piece of work with a lot of potential. Way to go. I hope I can be helpful in some way.
Several issues:
- Spiral Minaret doesn't work as supposed to. It may a minor problem for it is not sure whether it will make into the final version, but still, kind of annoying to spend time building a world wonder which does nothing. Some other wonders don't work as supposed as well, but I believe they've been mentioned already
- I support the idea of priests spreading religions - when disciples are no longer available (happened to me when concentrated on Ashen Veil and could build mages as well - disciples could not be build unless city didn't have a library or I gave away my reagents) there is virtually no way of making the enemies more friendly
- While playing as Hatshepsut on Noble and having Veil I had to carefully ballance expenses all the time to have money - yet when I played Qin and had Runes as my religion I produced way too much money. They were useful though cause I could afford buildings
- With so many civics Spiritual trait seems to be a bit overpowered since it gives bonus to all the priests as well - I could change civics at about any time and didn't have to think about twice. On the other hand philosophical became kind of poor giving only 50% bonus... Creative is also great since 2 extra points of culture mean a lot in this mod. Maybe too much.
- Maceman are overpowered, but that's been mentioned already as well.
- If not discovered by a human Veil and Order come to life far too late - it happened I waited over 150 turns after development of three 'basic' religions since the AI adopted one of those...
- The idea of Monotheism seems to be a problem. We have a pantheon of gods who somehow relate to each other and even influence the mortals, yet a whole group of people decides not to believe in the existance of the other gods? If the followers of Order would disregard the existance of Veil it would make their 'crusade' rather pointless. It's just like a group of ancient greeks who would cease to believe in existance of other gods so they could concentrate on following Zeus only. Just a thought.
On the mod development:
Generally, I full-heartedly support the idea of having multiple human civilizations with each one choosing with whom to ally with (dwarves, elves, overlords, creatures of the ether or angelic beings). It would give much more flexibility than race-oriented civs. Still, there could be some themed civs (each time I look at Montezuma he reminds me of some crazed woodelf follower
) with appropriate names and leaders. Another thought, would it be possible to somehow disallow a civ which discovered one of the religious techs to research the other? After all most often it is that we try to adopt (and spread) the religion we found. It would make the choice to be much more though over and no single civ being allowed to start with more than one holy city. And with the 'or' requirements some techs could require only one of the religious techs to be discovered.
And about the proposed civs, I don't think that names 'The Undead' and 'The Shadow Demons' are inappropriate. Octopus Overlords remind me of Chtulhu mythos so I believe 'Old Ones' or something similar would do... As for the followers of Ashen Veil - they give the impression of being more concerned with all kinds of dark magicks, not just necromancy. 'The Cabal' or something in that fashion maybe?
Waiting for your replies
Cheers
Haarbal said:i know that is isn't that hard to add some civs, but when i tried it yesterday, it didn't work for me, so i will be trying again tonight.
after that is shouldnt be so hard to add more civs.
haarbal
Well keep us posted on your progress. I'd rather have Dwarven worshippers of the Leaves than see Roosevelt again!
Haarbal
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2005
- Messages
- 401
woodelf said:Well keep us posted on your progress. I'd rather have Dwarven worshippers of the Leaves than see Roosevelt again!
what do you want to head first, the good news or the bad news?
bad news?
i keep getting an error with assets\xml\text\GameTextInfos and the leadername doesn't appear correctly (something with txt_leader_julia)
the good news is that the rest is functioning perfect (except for the crappy flag at the moment
and the standard quotes in diplomacy).i will see if i can add my other civ's tomorrow (got to make some homework now
), but now that i'm getting the hang on it, it won't be too difficult
.haarbal
Haarbal said:what do you want to head first, the good news or the bad news?
bad news?
i keep getting an error with assets\xml\text\GameTextInfos and the leadername doesn't appear correctly (something with txt_leader_julia)
the good news is that the rest is functioning perfect (except for the crappy flag at the moment
i will see if i can add my other civ's tomorrow (got to make some homework now
haarbal
From my numerous hodge-podging of new civ mods I've seen the GameTextInfos.xml problems before. You don't have to modify the one that Kael did, you can simply add a new one for each civ or a complete one for all of them. For example you could have a GameTextInfos.xml for Julia of the True Elves like this:
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_CIV_TRUE_ELVES_DESC</Tag>
<English>True Elven Empire</English>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_CIV_TRUE_ELVES_SHORT_DESC</Tag>
<English>True Elves</English>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_CIV_TRUE_ELVES_ADJECTIVE</Tag>
<English>True Elves</English>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_LEADER_JULIA</Tag>
<English>Julia of the True Elves</English>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_CIV_TRUE_ELVES_PEDIA</Tag>
<English>*****The True Elves...blah blah</English>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_LEADER_JULIA_PEDIA</Tag>
<English>>
Julia of the True Elves descends from a long line of blah blah....</English>
</TEXT>
This basic form is taken from the Bretagne civ. L'Ankou did a nice job laying it out. Basically what you've already done needs these text tags to fill in the blanks, I hope. Keep up the good work.
Question Mark
Chieftain
I disagree. Just look at LotR. Dwarves and elves might have problems with each other, but they can live in peace, and even cooperate.
The healthcare civics are few, and doesen't have as interesting effects as the other civics. Perhaps you should drop them and include magic civics. These could include: *Shamanism - starting civic, no effect *Healing - health and happiness bonuses *Fertilization - extra food from farms *Alchemy - commerce from workshops, gold and production bonuses *Demonology - extra XP and shorter build time for demon units *Battle Bagic - ditto for mage units *Aquamancy - production from sea squares. Some of these bonuses could require certain buildings (e.g. Tower, Herbalist).
The mod is really playable and interresting so far. But I think that the towns have to much trouble constructing archeries,stables and so on on early game, even if in late game it is really interresting as it leads you to specialize your cities. So I think that the first units(archer,pikeman...) should not require buildings. Oh and I was about to forget: very, very good work ;-)
Haarbal said:i already put it in like this
i'll pm you a screenshot of the error i got together with some of the info in the gametextinfos.xml.
first, time for some tv
haarbal
Bugger. How did you make the civs? Did you make them separate and then add them to FfH or did you simply try adding them directly?
Hmmm, dinner and TV sound good right now. I'll look into it later as well.
First off, Ive just got to do the obligatory wow statement and note how impressed I am by this mod, especially considering that CIV is so new.
I just wanted to note something I didnt see elsewhere on the posts (forgive me if I missed it). I love the idea of the golems, powerful and non limited units that do not gain experience, but there are a few difficulties I have with them.
1) The first issue is simply mechanical. The stone golem costs the same (400 hammers) as the iron golem. Im guessing that he was only supposed to cost 200 hammers.
2) Id like to have access to these interesting units earlier in the game, and have a reason for making the lesser golems. If golem mastery was made available earlier, before everyone is likely to have iron working, then copper and stone golems might actually be useful. I like having arcane lore as a prerequisite, but perhaps arcane lore could come earlier, only requiring writing instead of literature for instance. Im also not sure why arcane lore needs initiative as a requisite. If arcane lore was moved up this way, stone golems could require the stone or marble resource and be in play fairly early. Copper golems would show up around the time of axemen. This might make them a bit overpowered, so perhaps their cost should be raised. Iron golems should be fine as they are. Just a thought, but I noticed everyone was talking about how all the neat units can only be built fairly late in the game.
3) The mithril tech could allow mithril golems. I think this was being saved for a wonder, but it would be a nice addition to the high end units. If it follows the standard pattern established, it would have a strength of 16, +50% vs. city, immune to disease and cost 600 hammers. Id give it a move of 2 to differentiate it, and because mithril is supposed to be light (in the Tolkien ethos anyway).
Well, thats about it. Oh, I guess the retention of some old wonder names seemed a bit odd. Perhaps the Sistine Chappell could become something like Divine Masterpiece, and the Taj Mahal could become Seasons of Plenty, to reflect their actual benefit and make them seem less real world.
Thanks again for a very promising mod. You are single handedly setting back my dissertation, but its in a good cause.
Wallace2
I just wanted to note something I didnt see elsewhere on the posts (forgive me if I missed it). I love the idea of the golems, powerful and non limited units that do not gain experience, but there are a few difficulties I have with them.
1) The first issue is simply mechanical. The stone golem costs the same (400 hammers) as the iron golem. Im guessing that he was only supposed to cost 200 hammers.
2) Id like to have access to these interesting units earlier in the game, and have a reason for making the lesser golems. If golem mastery was made available earlier, before everyone is likely to have iron working, then copper and stone golems might actually be useful. I like having arcane lore as a prerequisite, but perhaps arcane lore could come earlier, only requiring writing instead of literature for instance. Im also not sure why arcane lore needs initiative as a requisite. If arcane lore was moved up this way, stone golems could require the stone or marble resource and be in play fairly early. Copper golems would show up around the time of axemen. This might make them a bit overpowered, so perhaps their cost should be raised. Iron golems should be fine as they are. Just a thought, but I noticed everyone was talking about how all the neat units can only be built fairly late in the game.
3) The mithril tech could allow mithril golems. I think this was being saved for a wonder, but it would be a nice addition to the high end units. If it follows the standard pattern established, it would have a strength of 16, +50% vs. city, immune to disease and cost 600 hammers. Id give it a move of 2 to differentiate it, and because mithril is supposed to be light (in the Tolkien ethos anyway).
Well, thats about it. Oh, I guess the retention of some old wonder names seemed a bit odd. Perhaps the Sistine Chappell could become something like Divine Masterpiece, and the Taj Mahal could become Seasons of Plenty, to reflect their actual benefit and make them seem less real world.
Thanks again for a very promising mod. You are single handedly setting back my dissertation, but its in a good cause.
Wallace2
Haarbal
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2005
- Messages
- 401
woodelf said:
so far i only created the elves, to see how it would work out. I created them by using charkoal's (maybe i misspelled the name) tutorial and added them as a new civ.
i think i will start on the other civs now, because it is only a minor issue.
haarbal
YES! They might have the Korean flag, might have a LH looking like Wang Geon, and they might be strangely colored but the Dwarves, led by Iron Fist, have actually founded the city of Rockhomme in my game. Strange how just seeing words like Dwarven Empire and cities not named Washington can make the atmosphere that much better.
Haarbal
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2005
- Messages
- 401
woodelf said:
coolyou've got mail!
and could you please send me a mail with city names from those civIII mods, cause i dont feel like installing civIII+exp. again much
.i also had the idea for some more civs.
civs that are conquered/loyal towards another civ, to keep the religion<>race thing intact.
split the elves into High Elves and Wood Elves (morrowind), add the nomads to the humans, goblins to the dwarves, dark elves to the undead and something like the 'devoured' as a slave civ to the overlords
so that already makes 10 civs and in scenarios you can give the 'leader-civs' the holy city+their loyal following civ+the holy city.
some neutral civs would also be nice (the cat-like thingies from morrowind for example)
haarbal
Haarbal - I'm looking through my folders but can't locate the damn city names for CivIII. I'll keep looking since I know I've seen them before. They might be in the biq file. I'll send them along after I find them.
We'll have to wait and see what Kael has planned, but yeah we can do scenarios with these races once we get them figured out.
I'll keep looking since I know I've seen them before. They might be in the biq file. I'll send them along after I find them.We'll have to wait and see what Kael has planned, but yeah we can do scenarios with these races once we get them figured out.
Similar threads
