Tracking and understanding Science spikes in BNW using CEG3.5 and CAT.

G

gdwitt

Prince
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
359
Location
Austin, TX
UPDATE: THIS THREAD SHOULD CONSOLIDATE ALL THE SCIENCE SPIKE ISSUES


The most dramatic change I see from older versions is that when the AI's all have a tech, my tech turns all drop to 1 turn.
Ex. By turn 20 all of the column3 techs were =1 turn
(Edit: the one turn was due to beaker overflow after completing a tech around turn 30)
Was this intended?

I found this in Global defines outside of the mod.
Is this the source of the problem?
<Row Name="TECH_COST_KNOWN_PREREQ_MODIFIER">
<Value>20</Value>

Is there a coding by Thal that makes known techs extremely easy?
I think this helps the human player way too much.
 
I have experienced the same bug. My understanding is that in vanilla, tech reduction is a certain amount for each AI you have met, who has also completed the tech in question. In a recent game I had only met Rome. Upon finishing sailing, every available tech from optics to bronze working was at 1 turn. This was somewhere in the first 25 turns.
 
This is for the latest beta.
The most dramatic bug I've found is that when the AI's all have a tech, my tech turns all drop to 1 turn.
Ex. By turn 20 all of the grid x=1 techs were =1 turn vs. the 12 they were when I started researching my first tech.
I had met about 5 civs

Was this intended?

I found this in Global defines outside of the mod.
Is this the source of the problem?
<Row Name="TECH_COST_KNOWN_PREREQ_MODIFIER">
<Value>20</Value>

Raising this value does not seem to stop the bug.

Is there a coding by Thal that makes known techs extremely easy?
 
I ran into this again.
It has nothing to do with the other AI's being ahead of me techwise.
I started a new game and gave myself a few free techs which didn't cause any problems; I use it for testing all the time in vanilla starts.
Upon earning a tech, I forgot which (wheel or sailing) all the other techs in X=2 became turns =1.
Tooltips showed that I had 142 overflow tech points and the x=2 techs were all at 39 science.
Where did this overflow come from?

I played longer and all the AI seemed to get the same bonus.
At round tech 6, they all accelerated to 9 techs within 4 turns.

I tracked this through infoaddict.
 
You are correct that this bug has nothing to do with the TECH_COST_KNOWN_PREREQ_MODIFIER and more to do with some sort of instant science yield. I ran into this bug in my first game and was unable to replicate it after I had turned on logging (which was disabled after my reinstall).

Could you post your log files?
 
Here is the relevant portion of my logfiles from this bug:

[41795.335] TurnProcessing: Hiding TurnProcessing
[41805.740] TechTree: popupInfo.Data1: 0
[41805.740] TechTree: popupInfo.Data2: -1
[41805.740] TechTree: popupInfo.Data3: 0
[41819.749] MT_Initialize: INFO Turn 15 Cleared camp +50 gold for Theodora
[41819.749] MT_Initialize: INFO Turn 15 Killed barbarian Brute with 10 experience for Warrior
[41822.713] CityBannerManager: CityBanner CombatBegin
[41822.713] CityBannerManager: CityBanner CombatEnd
[41826.005] TurnProcessing: Hiding TurnProcessing
[41841.823] TechTree: popupInfo.Data1: 0
[41841.823] TechTree: popupInfo.Data2: -1
[41841.823] TechTree: popupInfo.Data3: 0
[41850.700] TechTree: stealingTechTargetPlayerID: -1
[41850.700] TechTree: player:GetNumFreeTechs(): 0
[41853.461] LeaderHeadRoot: Handling LeaderMessage: 0, Oh, wonderful, a new challenger! Harald Bluetooth welcomes you to his lands. Perhaps one day we shall have the honor of sparring together!
[41864.818] TurnProcessing: Hiding TurnProcessing
[41869.342] TechTree: popupInfo.Data1: 0
[41869.342] TechTree: popupInfo.Data2: -1
[41869.342] TechTree: popupInfo.Data3: 0
[41873.289] TechTree: stealingTechTargetPlayerID: -1
[41873.289] TechTree: player:GetNumFreeTechs(): 0
[41878.718] MT_Initialize: INFO Turn 17 Cleared camp +50 gold for Darius I
[41885.441] TurnProcessing: Hiding TurnProcessing
Click to expand...
 
Hmmm, just got this too on 3.4.2 (had not had it before) - sorry don't have a log. Researching my first tech pottery I suddenly had 192 science and could select techs for 1 turn turn overs (however many that would be).

Anyway, just thought I let you know it's present in 3.4.2 as well.
 
I have been playing Vanilla since BNW came out. (Waiting for a somewhat finished version of CEP before jumping in).

I have never seen any Techs for 1 turn.
 
ran a test game and found I was being awarded additional beakers pretty randomly at end of turn (as opposed to the normal researching which is applied at the beginning of the turn). There was no consistent amount, and it doesn't happen every turn, but it happens rather frequently.

The first instance did not occur until after I finished researching my first tech (Pottery) in 12 turns. after that I'd randomly get 2-3 science at the end of a turn.

Adding a library to my city increased the size of the additional science to 6-7, and deleting it reduced the bonuses, so it appears to be dependant on the amount of beakers being generated.

It also seems to strongly coincide (but not 100% of the time) with completing research on a tech - I had a string where I'd overflow so much beakers (4+ days' worth) on one research that it would make the next tech take 1 turn, and then I'd have another huge overflow and it would happen again, etc.

test done in 3.4.2
 
Using ceg3.5 cat infoaddict IGE Korea Standard King

I used IGE to ensure that I was ahead to prevent interfence from TECH_COST_KNOWN_PREREQ_MODIFIER

Some turns I received exactly what the science was supposed to deliver.
Other turns it gave about 3% extra.
It seemed that whenever a tech was almost there, beakers overflowed suddenly to 20-30% above the beaker total in the top left of the screen.
This remained consistent from start to classical age.

I believe the AI was getting this too since they were just 1-2 techs behind me even though I had given myself free techs. I also had the Great Library which should have kicked me ahead 3-4 techs.

I did NOT see the elusive science spike in this verson.

Conclusion: This is not a game breaker if the AI also benefits the same amount. It does give reason for me to increase the Research modifier in Handicaps.
 
CEG3.5.1 CA Infoaddict IGE
Science per turn was at 5 beakers

I had just finished researching mining (14 turns) and there should have been a carryover of 2 beakers to the rest.

Instead the tech tree showed that I had an excess of 147 beakers and all items on my tech tree were one turn to research (they had 39-85 beakers as requirement.

This rules out one guess that the Great Library causes a tech spike.

See attached zip
 

Attachments

  • geoff0913Logs.zip
    63.9 KB · Views: 59
gdwitt said:
CEG3.5.1 CA Infoaddict IGE
Science per turn was at 5 beakers

I had just finished researching mining (14 turns) and there should have been a carryover of 2 beakers to the rest.

Instead the tech tree showed that I had an excess of 147 beakers and all items on my tech tree were one turn to research (they had 39-85 beakers as requirement.

This rules out one guess that the Great Library causes a tech spike.

See attached zip
Click to expand...

Having the same problem here:blush:
 
I don't think this is that big of a deal.
The AI gets the same boost.
I cannot trace it in the lua.
But the 5 turns after my spike, all the AI advanced 1 tech a turn.

It's still a remarkable game.

One could use IGE to go into each civ and subtract techs
Or boost Handicaps Research to 150 until after the effect then return it to 100.

The bigger issue is what is causing the AI to take such a runaway tech advantage.
I'm going to lower the AI boosts in Handicaps.
 
Nice thread title ...

Anyway, I suddenly got 100,000+ (3.5.3) of science and could choose techs at will, 1 turn, 1 tech. Don't know what caused it exactly and didn't have log enabled, sorry (will try to get one if I can).

Part of me wanted to run the table and see what damage I could do!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Reflections on Fast Diplo/SS Win At Regent Level
Replies
1
Views
240
BlackBetsy
B
S
  • Locked
(6-CP) KISS Espionage System
Replies
12
Views
1K
axatin
A
W
[Civ2] Help with Civ 2 finances
Replies
4
Views
1K
kdsteff
K
K
[BNW] How many cities is best for Immortal and large maps?
2
Replies
26
Views
2K
consentient
consentient
Recursive
New Version - 4.6.2 (April 19, 2024)
4 5 6
Replies
119
Views
14K
randomnub
R
Top Bottom