xienwolf
Deity
Maybe each player could be allowed to start with some free espionage points? Just enough to trigger the graphs? Or is it a requirement for a relative amount?
"Shadow" schedule
- Thread starter Kael
- Start date
You need 15 espionage points spent on every nation that you encounter in order to see each nation's bar graph. the easiest way i have found to do so is to give a throw-a-way unit those 15 points and send them to a civs' city and infiltrate that city so i can see their bar graph for the rest of the game
Avahz Darkwood
Emperor
You guys amaze me how quickly you make patches and new versions. Just a few months for perhaps as many as 8 versions with multiple patches per version?
If I didn't know better I'd think that the development of FfH was a full time job for you all. But even working on it as part time volunteers, you accomplish better support than the professionals do. And for me there is no doubt that the FfH team is the best mod team out there. It's surprising to me that this is your first mod Kael, and that you taught yourself coding with it.
With the release of Shadow, I can honestly say that FfH is the greatest game I have ever played. No exaggeration. I've payed upwards of $60 for games that don't even come close to providing the enjoyment that FfH has. I can't thank you all enough for creating this grand game. And so on behalf of the FfH Team, I finally donated $75 to my local PBS station (KCTS). PBS and FfH comprise the lions share of my media entertainment. So I thought it fitting for them to receive my FfH payment. Thanks Team for providing me with such great entertainment!
DITTO (wipes tear from eye)
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Yes (and not with vanilla)
andrew_yaweb
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2005
- Messages
- 86
Just some feedback.
1) Seemed like a lack of 'iron' on most big-small maps. I'm on 0.30
2) Seems like workers don't keep their captured abilities and captured workers inherit their new masters abilities. I used to love to capture elves to build me cottages in the forest when I'm not elvish. I can't do that any more and it makes being evil less fun. On the flips-side, why should capture human or goblin workers be able to do what elvish workers can do when one is an elf-leader; can an elf teach a goblin worker to build cottages in the woods, I would think not.
1) Seemed like a lack of 'iron' on most big-small maps. I'm on 0.30
2) Seems like workers don't keep their captured abilities and captured workers inherit their new masters abilities. I used to love to capture elves to build me cottages in the forest when I'm not elvish. I can't do that any more and it makes being evil less fun. On the flips-side, why should capture human or goblin workers be able to do what elvish workers can do when one is an elf-leader; can an elf teach a goblin worker to build cottages in the woods, I would think not.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
This is intended. The ability to build in forests is no longer unit specific. Instead of creating multiple build orders (creating the same improvement, but one of them not requiring clearing forests) for different units, the elven ability is now handled in the SDK. The 2 elven civs can build any improvement (including mines and quarries) in forested tiles without clearing the forests. Elven workers are now the worst to capture, since they have a slower work rate and no extra abilities.
It does seem like the old way may have been better. Capturing elven workers and slaves (I think one reasons why it was removed is that any Undercouncil member can buy elven slaves once the resolution passes) was fun, and perhaps more importantly the AI doesn't understand building in forests. The mouseover still claims that building the improvement will reduce the tile's yields from clearing the forests, even though it doesn't. The AI doesn't realize that is doesn't reduce the yields or remove the feature, so it doesn't build in forests.
OzzyKP
Emperor
I think it is a good change.
I liked using captured elven workers too, but it was rather unbalanced.
I liked using captured elven workers too, but it was rather unbalanced.
andrew_yaweb
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2005
- Messages
- 86
The change is not 'realistic' ( funny to say that in a fantasy game ).
For a units fundamental capabilities to change just because of a flag over their head, so to speak, is just wrong.
An an evil player, it was a strategic choice on my part to sometimes go to war with a good elf to capture his workers and use them to my benefit.
Might was well make worker capturing destroy the worker, like in Civ2. Even funnier and more twisted for a captured goblin to be able to do elf stuff. They are such opposite beasts, there is no way a goblin worker would care to build a cottage in the woods without destroying the trees; that's just wrong. Goblins need to stay, well, goblins.
For a units fundamental capabilities to change just because of a flag over their head, so to speak, is just wrong.
An an evil player, it was a strategic choice on my part to sometimes go to war with a good elf to capture his workers and use them to my benefit.
Might was well make worker capturing destroy the worker, like in Civ2. Even funnier and more twisted for a captured goblin to be able to do elf stuff. They are such opposite beasts, there is no way a goblin worker would care to build a cottage in the woods without destroying the trees; that's just wrong. Goblins need to stay, well, goblins.
andrew_yaweb
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2005
- Messages
- 86
All good points. Rarely do games go on long enough for me to see any such effects of the council's. Point taken on the AI as well. I'm just a regular user. Thanks for the feedback.
I agree with this. It also required micromanagement, and AI never used it properly (building important stuff with elven slaves rather than with normal workers)
From flavor perspective, they are slaves, they can do only the very basic labor.
However with new system, AI still has some troubles (Elves cut down forest unnecessarily)
xienwolf
Deity
Yes, while a goblin that is left to its own decision would never go out of the way to preserve a tree, a goblin with an elf holding a branding iron behind it WOULD be quite eager to be careful about the trees and build the cottage quite nicely.
Meanwhile, an elf might be the greatest craftsman of his race, but when you capture him and torture him, then send him out to the fields in a chain-gang to improve your wildlands, suddenly he is all thumbs, and will claim to have never worked a day in his life, thus not KNOW how to preserve the forests while building a farm.
Meanwhile, an elf might be the greatest craftsman of his race, but when you capture him and torture him, then send him out to the fields in a chain-gang to improve your wildlands, suddenly he is all thumbs, and will claim to have never worked a day in his life, thus not KNOW how to preserve the forests while building a farm.
I always assumed that building improvement in a forest was more than justt he structure of the house but the quality of the people to conitnue to live and grow in that environment without disturbing the area around them.
Also in the prior version the AI held off building cottages because it knew that building cottages on forests was possible. So all the AI's except the evles suffered. Now the AI is only indirectly unaware that some can build improvements on forests so most work as they should, though the elven ai could use a little improvement (or more correctly the new ai doesn't work as well for the elves).
Also in the prior version the AI held off building cottages because it knew that building cottages on forests was possible. So all the AI's except the evles suffered. Now the AI is only indirectly unaware that some can build improvements on forests so most work as they should, though the elven ai could use a little improvement (or more correctly the new ai doesn't work as well for the elves).
MacGyverInSpace
Monarch
Still, if only there was some set of beliefs that would allow your citizens to acquire said forest-coexistence skills...
In the late game, I used to picture my empires as progressive creative, using the talents of all the races for maximum effect, a late game tech or civic or other dynamic not attached to FOL but possibly requiring open borders with with the eleves would be cool. Maybe even a wonder that allowed the elven abilities somehow...
But since its not that great, if anyones gonna do it it's gotta be me...or someone else who wants to mod the mod...
In the late game, I used to picture my empires as progressive creative, using the talents of all the races for maximum effect, a late game tech or civic or other dynamic not attached to FOL but possibly requiring open borders with with the eleves would be cool. Maybe even a wonder that allowed the elven abilities somehow...
But since its not that great, if anyones gonna do it it's gotta be me...or someone else who wants to mod the mod...
andrew_yaweb
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2005
- Messages
- 86
That does lead the argument that workers should be be able to be captured at all, because they wouldn't work anyway, or would be only 25% as efficient. Regardless, points all taken.
I admire anyone who talks about late-game. I rarely have the patience for late-game play. The hardest thing I find is resuming a game the next day and getting back into the flow of how things were going. I'll have to experiment with the advance options of starting at later ages to see what end-game features are like.
I admire anyone who talks about late-game. I rarely have the patience for late-game play. The hardest thing I find is resuming a game the next day and getting back into the flow of how things were going. I'll have to experiment with the advance options of starting at later ages to see what end-game features are like.
andrew_yaweb
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2005
- Messages
- 86
Any updates in the pipeline? I love the new surprises that always come out.
Nope, nothing right now. The task right now is to fix bugs and get 0.31 as smooth as possible. Im going to Vegas next week so I'll be away for a little while. After I return I'll check in to see what bugs have been reported, get them fixed and take a look at the next step.I'll also be looking for new event ideas to dig through and I want to play Fall Further a little big to enjoy what Vehem has created.
I still have one big technical challenge ahead that I have to pound through, but its doable. Outside of that we will likely be working on "Ice" scenarios and playing as many games as possible to try to get things as smooth as possible.
To be honest the game is getting closer and closer to its final form. I wouldn't expect to see major new features added. We may change a system to improve it, and there are few ideas floating out that havent been implemented yet but they may or may not make it in.
Balance and refinement isn't exciting, its hard to work up a lot of enthusiasm for new build prices or an adjustment of promotion bonuses. But its probably what FfH needs most. We may begin seeing AI enhancements coming in during this stage so thats a good thing.
thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
Wait... no Wildlands? no Hinterlands?
