Is there a guide on Bribing somewhere?

wayneb64 · Jun 9, 2015

I have NEVER been able to get anyone to accept a bribe for a DoW. Clearly I am missing something in my diplomatic relations, but I have tried offering everything I have on many occasions to no avail. Is there math behind it? Is there some information available in the game to hint me that a bribe is possible?

phillipwyllie · Jun 9, 2015

Relations, difference in military strength, and whether they want to go to war seem to be factors.

In saying that if most of the world hates a civ(or they hat most of the world) then that civ can usually be bribed to DOW the entire world to their most likely demise. I find Autocratic civs tend to be up for genocide, and wont cost you a penny if DOW on the very same turn.

beetle · Jun 9, 2015

wayneb64 said:
I have NEVER been able to get anyone to accept a bribe for a DoW.

That is very odd. Frequently, I can get a friendly AI to DoW someone they hate and outgun for as little as 3 gpt. OTOH, sometimes 4 luxes is not enough.

I suspect you are in the wrong place in the UI or something weird. Can you post a screen shot?

wayneb64 · Jun 9, 2015

beetle said:
That is very odd. Frequently, I can get a friendly AI to DoW someone they hate and outgun for as little as 3 gpt. OTOH, sometimes 4 luxes is not enough.

I suspect you are in the wrong place in the UI or something weird. Can you post a screen shot?

I have always tried to do it on the trade screen. Same place where you can try to bribe them for World Congress votes. (Which I have done successfully.) In my current game everyone is at war so I can't try it there, but I can try in my next game.

stormtrooper412 · Jun 10, 2015

It certainly feels like there's been some minor tweaks with the game, I used to be able to bribe everyone to vote for me as world leader, now it's impossible and I *have to* beeline Globalization

wayneb64 · Jun 12, 2015

OK, I just was able to offer an AI a bribe to DoW, but it was very early in the game. All of my attempts in the past where much farther into the game. Is there something on the diplomacy panel that I can see letting me know an AI is just not going to make that kind of deal? Is there some event that happens? I know I have been friends with AIs and on the best of terms and they just are not going to do it.

consentient · Jun 12, 2015

Sometimes they won't do it because they are just too peaceful. I've never gotten Gandhi or Pedro to accept a bribe to DoW, for example.

beetle · Jun 12, 2015

wayneb64 said:
OK, I just was able to offer an AI a bribe to DoW, but it was very early in the game.

Good, so the mechanics are worked out.

All of my attempts in the past where much farther into the game.

Late game bribes-to-DOW are definitely possible. What difficulty level are you playing at?

Is there something on the diplomacy panel that I can see letting me know an AI is just not going to make that kind of deal? Is there some event that happens?

No, there is not a shortcut besides going into the trade screen, so that is kind of frustrating. No, there was no event that happened. You are just trying to get a civ to do something they do not care for. Are you putting your offer to war in the trade screen? Sometimes civs value that a lot, sometimes they do not seem to care, and sometimes it jinxes the deal -- so try it both ways. I actually have more success getting mutual DOWs on the dialog screen than I do with trades.

I know I have been friends with AIs and on the best of terms and they just are not going to do it.

That is barely a factor. Their opinion of the other AI, their relative military strength compared to other AI, and their general flavor bias to war are what makes this possible. Also, if you are not doing it already, try bribing your target AI to DOW your friends!

Solutionfinder · Jun 12, 2015

Like some have already mentioned...sometimes a bribe is just not doable. But most of the time you can pay DoW by just asking them what they want and even if they say that the deal is not possible...raising GPT would sooner or later trigger the event...just don`t do it 1 by 1 because I think there is a limit of how many offers AI will still consider and afterwards just won`t accept anything.

Also consider that no AI is your friend and just make em attack eachother, if that is what suits your agenda best. Just be careful and expect backstabbing and synchronous multiple attacks from AIs afterwards or should I say at all times

No other civ can be trused except yourself and allied CS if you have them on over 150 or more so no surprise can happen.

wayneb64 · Jun 12, 2015

I have been playing Immortal for a while now. I generally don't even consider bribes as I have had so little success at it. I did notice in my last game that an AI had the indicator in the diplomacy panel that they had back stabbed me. The did not DoW me, and we where 'friends' at one point, but I have no idea what triggered that status.

Browd · Jun 12, 2015

They probably denounced you while the DOF was in effect.

beetle · Jun 12, 2015

wayneb64 said:
I have been playing Immortal for a while now.

Okay, so your experience with bribes should be similar to what other people posting on this board experience.

I generally don't even consider bribes as I have had so little success at it.

I want to suggest that you try more often, so that you develop a better sense for when it is feasible. Bribing to war does seem (at least for my play) to be an essential skill. Start with civs that prone to war.

I did notice in my last game that an AI had the indicator in the diplomacy panel that they had back stabbed me. The did not DoW me, and we where 'friends' at one point, but I have no idea what triggered that status.

Backstabs make other AIs more inclined to DoW or denounce the backstabbing AI. Since it was not a DoW, they must have denounced you during a DoF. Backstabs cancel DoF.

Solutionfinder · Jun 12, 2015

Yup backstabbing is considered the denounciation while having DoF. Similar is DoW while having DoF but not sure which one is worse in diplomatic relations.

As for bribing...it can really pay off long term in both war and relations. E.g. : You bribe Napoleon to declare war on Gandhi and later on someone else or more. Napoleon get denounced for war mongering by these civs. You denounce him as well and you get DoF requests from the same nations. Later you can also join a war against him and profit from it...one way or another.

wayneb64 · Jun 12, 2015

And the act of bribing itself has no relations hit to myself?

beetle · Jun 12, 2015

Solutionfinder said:
...just don`t do it 1 by 1 because I think there is a limit of how many offers AI will still consider and afterwards just won`t accept anything.

It is only the dialog screens that have cool down period where you must wait before making the same request. The AIs will consider any and all offers in the trade screen. There is the issue where they say no deal is possible, when all you have to do is add gold or something. It is kind of buggy that way, but the bugs are not limited to DOW trades. Also, unlike cIV, the player is not penalized for just for initiating conversations.

wayneb64 said:
And the act of bribing itself has no relations hit to myself?

No, and that aspect is certainly counter-intuitive. It very much seems to me that bribing my enemy to attack my friend should have at least the possibility of significant consequences!

Solutionfinder · Jun 12, 2015

beetle said:
It is only the dialog screens that have cool down period where you must wait before making the same request. The AIs will consider any and all offers in the trade screen. There is the issue where they say no deal is possible, when all you have to do is add gold or something. It is kind of buggy that way, but the bugs are not limited to DOW trades. Also, unlike cIV, the player is not penalized for just for initiating conversations.

I know that but I`m talking about trade screen. Ever happened to you that while trading resources, when you asked him what he wants for let`s say Gems and he asked for let`s say Pearls, Furs and Gold but then you changed your offer so many times and he rejected so many times that in the end he even wouldn`t want to accept what he asked for in the first place? This can be resolved the next time you go to trade screen though and I think that same thing happens when trying AI DoW someone when AI says it`s not possible because sometimes you think it`s not doable but next turn you can pay for DoW with lesser or same amount that AI rejected previously.

beetle · Jun 13, 2015

Solutionfinder said:
Ever happened to you that while trading resources, when you asked him what he wants for let`s say Gems and he asked for let`s say Pearls, Furs and Gold but then you changed your offer so many times and he rejected so many times that in the end he even wouldn`t want to accept what he asked for in the first place?

No, that has never happened to me. I think you are mistaken, sorry.

GoStu · Jun 13, 2015

Generally speaking, the AI you're trying to pay off to start a war has to think that war would be a pretty good idea anyway. The biggest factors in determining that are relative army strengths and diplomatic relations between the two.

For example, imagine trying to bribe Shaka to declare war on Venice. Shaka has a strong propensity towards war, and will almost certainly have a larger army and won't have made friends. It won't cost much to get Shaka to attack, as the AI estimates it'll be an easy war.

Now imagine the reverse. You probably couldn't bribe Enrico to start that war as it's pretty likely he'll die horribly.

A footnote: I've heard that Russia is the only AI who will take a bribe to attack her friends.

JohnMK · Jun 13, 2015

beetle said:
No, that has never happened to me. I think you are mistaken, sorry.

Concur.

revelation216 · Jun 15, 2015

I like to use the bribe when an AI is creeping up on me with a huge swarm of units. Typically see this about turn 50-60 on Deity.

Is there a guide on Bribing somewhere?

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