SGOTM 13 - Gypsy Kings

Play through went smoothly, very tight galley movement.

Great. Thanks for the inspiration to make it so good :)

Questions
1) Promotions
A) Cat(s)
B) Sword(s)

I expect Vicky not to have so many units that extra collateral damage is worthwhile, so I think the first suicide cat should get CR1, and maybe the second cat gets that as well. The third will be at 0XP anyway. If either of those survive, now they can get the extra-bombard upgrade to move on York.

I always give swords CR upgrades. By the time three cats have gone in, hopefully there's no C1+shock axes still scaring us :eek: We have a sword on 5XP. I think he gets both CR1 and CR2 while healing (he probably needs both to heal in time) and is worth considering even before the suicide cats in some scenarios.

2) Hastings
A) If it only has 1 defender on T185, do I raze it right now? I would say yes. If it has 2 defenders?

Depends on its defence relative to London's defence, and how many units total. We'll know at start T185 what that is. If they each have two archers, then I reckon we can probably afford to try a sword on Hastings and see how we go. If London has three archers and Hastings has archer + sword then I'd skip Hastings. I'd skip Hastings if it has an axe. York is the target of strategic value, and I don't want to compromise it for some piece of single-population junk. Hastings is working fishboats, so it might not auto-raze on T185.

I am ready to play unless something has been added.

Sounds good. From our chat earlier today, bc is happy with the #1665 plan and is keen to keep moving. Time is pressing. Good luck!

Final thought - if Vicky has a C1+C2 sword camped on the eastern iron fort then we're out of luck for the moment. We should still DOW, but don't bother pillaging the northern iron, move the axe to the forest stack. We can cut the hill-road to the eastern iron fort, but she gets a route across the lake to York and thus London. However we may as well cut the road on the hill with the eastern axe, because when we take London, we can move a trireme to blockade next to York, and that will cut off the eastern iron for reinforcements. Nottingham would still be connected round the outside, however, so we might go blockade it also.
 
Also, the new galley from FH and New Galley coming back are both going to be useful for the missionaries plan, so I do think we want both in the neighbourhood.
 
I have played.

Mostly according to plan....a few minor errors.

We own London on T188....but it was rough, we have 2 units in the city! :)

Here is the upload log
Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 70 AD to 220 AD:

Turn 178, 70 AD: utrecht is building something big

Turn 179, 85 AD: Buddhism has spread in Clam Chowder.
Turn 179, 85 AD: You have trained a Trireme in Golden Hills. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 179, 85 AD: Willem van Oranje converts to Taoism!
Turn 179, 85 AD: Ragnar converts to Buddhism!

Turn 181, 115 AD: You have discovered Code of Laws!
Turn 181, 115 AD: Christianity has spread in Fish Hills.
Turn 181, 115 AD: Willem van Oranje adopts Caste System!

Turn 183, 145 AD: Ling Lun (Great Artist) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 184, 160 AD: You have declared war on Victoria!
Turn 184, 160 AD: The borders of Clam Chowder have expanded!
Turn 184, 160 AD: Victoria's Axeman (5.50) vs Napoleon's Catapult (5.00)
Turn 184, 160 AD: Combat Odds: 68.1%
Turn 184, 160 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 184, 160 AD: Victoria's Axeman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 184, 160 AD: Napoleon's Catapult is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 184, 160 AD: Victoria's Axeman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 184, 160 AD: Napoleon's Catapult is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 184, 160 AD: Napoleon's Catapult is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 184, 160 AD: Victoria's Axeman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 184, 160 AD: Victoria's Axeman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 184, 160 AD: Victoria's Axeman is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 184, 160 AD: Napoleon's Catapult is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 184, 160 AD: Napoleon's Catapult is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 184, 160 AD: Victoria's Axeman has defeated Napoleon's Catapult!
Turn 184, 160 AD: Willem van Oranje has completed Shwedagon Paya!

Turn 186, 190 AD: fur for sheep still okay?
Turn 186, 190 AD: Clam Chowder has grown to size 6.
Turn 186, 190 AD: Paired Clams can hurry Axeman for 2? with 50? overflow and +1? for 43 turns.
Turn 186, 190 AD: Bronzed Fish has grown to size 5.
Turn 186, 190 AD: Golden Hills has become happy.
Turn 186, 190 AD: Golden Hills can hurry Archer for 1? with 16? overflow and +1? for 31 turns.
Turn 186, 190 AD: Spicy Rice has grown to size 2.
Turn 186, 190 AD: The borders of Spicy Rice are about to expand.
Turn 186, 190 AD: Catherine will trade Sheep
Turn 186, 190 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of London to 44%!
Turn 186, 190 AD: Fish Hills will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 186, 190 AD: Paired Clams will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 186, 190 AD: Furry Crabs will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 186, 190 AD: The borders of Spicy Rice have expanded!
Turn 186, 190 AD: Victoria's Axeman (5.50) vs Napoleon's Axeman (5.00)
Turn 186, 190 AD: Combat Odds: 68.1%
Turn 186, 190 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 186, 190 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 186, 190 AD: (Combat: -75%)
Turn 186, 190 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 186, 190 AD: Napoleon's Axeman is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 186, 190 AD: Victoria's Axeman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 186, 190 AD: Napoleon's Axeman is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 186, 190 AD: Napoleon's Axeman is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 186, 190 AD: Victoria's Axeman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 186, 190 AD: Napoleon's Axeman is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 186, 190 AD: Victoria's Axeman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 186, 190 AD: Victoria's Axeman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 186, 190 AD: Napoleon's Axeman is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 186, 190 AD: Victoria's Axeman has defeated Napoleon's Axeman!
Turn 186, 190 AD: While defending, your Axeman was destroyed by a English Axeman!

Turn 187, 205 AD: Fish Hills has grown to size 5.
Turn 187, 205 AD: Paired Clams has grown to size 5.
Turn 187, 205 AD: Furry Crabs has grown to size 4.
Turn 187, 205 AD: Furry Crabs can hurry Granary for 2? with 17? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 187, 205 AD: Catherine will trade Cow
Turn 187, 205 AD: Catherine won't trade Gems, Sheep
Turn 187, 205 AD: Joao II will trade Silk
Turn 187, 205 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of London to 36%!
Turn 187, 205 AD: Clam Chowder will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 187, 205 AD: Stone Mountain will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 187, 205 AD: Golden Hills will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Axeman (5.50) vs Napoleon's Catapult 1 (Paired Clams) (5.00)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Combat Odds: 68.1%
Turn 187, 205 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Axeman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Axeman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Catapult 1 (Paired Clams) is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Catapult 1 (Paired Clams) is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Catapult 1 (Paired Clams) is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Axeman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Axeman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Axeman is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Axeman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Catapult 1 (Paired Clams) has defeated Victoria's Axeman!
Turn 187, 205 AD: While defending, your Catapult 1 (Paired Clams) has killed a English Axeman!
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Swordsman (6.00) vs Napoleon's Axeman (7.50)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Combat Odds: 25.1%
Turn 187, 205 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Axeman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Axeman is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Axeman is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Swordsman is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Swordsman is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Swordsman is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Axeman is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Axeman is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Axeman is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Swordsman has defeated Napoleon's Axeman!
Turn 187, 205 AD: Bernard Montgomery (Great General) has been born in London (Victoria)!
Turn 187, 205 AD: While defending, your Axeman was destroyed by a English Swordsman!
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Swordsman (6.00) vs Napoleon's Axeman 2 (Bronzed Fish) (7.50)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Combat Odds: 25.1%
Turn 187, 205 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Axeman 2 (Bronzed Fish) is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Axeman 2 (Bronzed Fish) is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Swordsman is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Axeman 2 (Bronzed Fish) is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Swordsman is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Swordsman is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Swordsman is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Swordsman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Axeman 2 (Bronzed Fish) has defeated Victoria's Swordsman!
Turn 187, 205 AD: While defending, your Axeman 2 (Bronzed Fish) has killed a English Swordsman!
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Swordsman (6.00) vs Napoleon's Swordsman 1 (Paired Clams) (6.00)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Combat Odds: 50.0%
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman 1 (Paired Clams) is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman 1 (Paired Clams) is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman 1 (Paired Clams) is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman 1 (Paired Clams) is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman 1 (Paired Clams) is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 187, 205 AD: Victoria's Swordsman has defeated Napoleon's Swordsman 1 (Paired Clams)!
Turn 187, 205 AD: While defending, your Swordsman 1 (Paired Clams) was destroyed by a English Swordsman!
Turn 187, 205 AD: Catherine adopts Vassalage!

Turn 188, 220 AD: Clam Chowder has grown to size 7.
Turn 188, 220 AD: Stone Mountain has grown to size 3.
Turn 188, 220 AD: Golden Hills has grown to size 5.
Turn 188, 220 AD: Willem van Oranje has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 188, 220 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of London to 28%!
Turn 188, 220 AD: Your Catapult 1 (Paired Clams) has reduced the defenses of London to 13%!
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Catapult 3 (Paired Clams) (5.00) vs Victoria's Swordsman (7.08)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Combat Odds: 29.6%
Turn 188, 220 AD: (Plot Defense: +13%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Your Catapult 3 (Paired Clams) has caused collateral damage! (3 Units)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Swordsman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Swordsman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Catapult 3 (Paired Clams) is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Catapult 3 (Paired Clams) is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Catapult 3 (Paired Clams) is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Catapult 3 (Paired Clams) is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Swordsman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Catapult 3 (Paired Clams) is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Swordsman has defeated Napoleon's Catapult 3 (Paired Clams)!
Turn 188, 220 AD: Your Catapult 3 (Paired Clams) has died trying to attack a Swordsman!
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Catapult 2 (Bronzed Fish) (5.00) vs Victoria's Archer (5.49)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Combat Odds: 51.4%
Turn 188, 220 AD: (Plot Defense: +13%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Your Catapult 2 (Bronzed Fish) has caused collateral damage! (2 Units)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Archer is hit for 18 (70/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Archer is hit for 18 (52/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Catapult 2 (Bronzed Fish) is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Catapult 2 (Bronzed Fish) is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Archer is hit for 18 (34/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Your Catapult 2 (Bronzed Fish) has withdrawn from combat with a Archer!
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman (6.00) vs Victoria's Archer (3.60)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Combat Odds: 94.8%
Turn 188, 220 AD: (Plot Defense: +13%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (City Attack: -30%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Archer is hit for 23 (53/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Archer is hit for 23 (30/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Archer is hit for 23 (7/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Archer is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman has defeated Victoria's Archer!
Turn 188, 220 AD: Your Swordsman has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman (6.00) vs Victoria's Bernard Montgomery (Archer) (4.62)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Combat Odds: 81.8%
Turn 188, 220 AD: (Plot Defense: +13%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (City Attack: -10%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Bernard Montgomery (Archer) is hit for 21 (55/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Bernard Montgomery (Archer) is hit for 21 (34/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Bernard Montgomery (Archer) is hit for 21 (13/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Bernard Montgomery has died in combat!
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Bernard Montgomery (Archer) is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman has defeated Victoria's Bernard Montgomery (Archer)!
Turn 188, 220 AD: Your Swordsman has destroyed a Bernard Montgomery!
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Axeman 1 (Fish Hills) (5.00) vs Victoria's Swordsman (3.52)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Combat Odds: 89.1%
Turn 188, 220 AD: (Plot Defense: +13%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Swordsman is hit for 19 (33/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Axeman 1 (Fish Hills) is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Swordsman is hit for 19 (14/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Swordsman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Axeman 1 (Fish Hills) has defeated Victoria's Swordsman!
Turn 188, 220 AD: Your Axeman 1 (Fish Hills) has destroyed a Swordsman!
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman (6.00) vs Victoria's Swordsman (3.12)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Combat Odds: 98.0%
Turn 188, 220 AD: (Plot Defense: +13%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (City Attack: -10%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Swordsman is hit for 19 (15/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Swordsman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman has defeated Victoria's Swordsman!
Turn 188, 220 AD: Your Swordsman has destroyed a Swordsman!
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Archer (3.00) vs Victoria's Archer (1.56)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Combat Odds: 98.0%
Turn 188, 220 AD: (Plot Defense: +13%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Archer is hit for 17 (8/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Archer is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Victoria's Archer is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 188, 220 AD: Napoleon's Archer has defeated Victoria's Archer!
Turn 188, 220 AD: Your Archer has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 188, 220 AD: You have captured London!!!


Here is the autolog
Spoiler :

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 178/750 (70 AD) [11-May-2011 23:38:58]
Spicy Rice begins: Taoist Monastery (90 turns)
Golden Hills begins: Trireme (19 turns)
100% Research: 155 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -59 per turn, 180 in the bank

After End Turn:
Clam Chowder grows to size 7
Paired Clams grows to size 5
Marbled Clam grows to size 3
Bronzed Fish grows to size 5
Furry Crabs grows to size 3
Golden Hills grows to size 4

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Joao II (Portugal) towards Napoleon (France), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 179/750 (85 AD) [12-May-2011 00:14:09]

Turn 179/750 (85 AD) [11-May-2011 23:52:59]
100% Research: 154 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -61 per turn, 121 in the bank

After End Turn:
Buddhism has spread: Clam Chowder
Paired Clams finishes: Catapult
Bronzed Fish finishes: Catapult
Golden Hills finishes: Trireme

Other Player Actions:
State Religion Change: Willem van Oranje (Netherlands) from 'Hinduism' to 'Taoism'
State Religion Change: Ragnar (Vikings) from 'Confucianism' to 'Buddhism'
Attitude Change: Catherine (Russia) towards Willem van Oranje (Netherlands), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Willem van Oranje (Netherlands) towards Catherine (Russia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Isabella (Spain) towards Ragnar (Vikings), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 180/750 (100 AD) [12-May-2011 00:14:12]
Diplomacy (Help Request): Ragnar (Vikings) asks Napoleon (France) for Alphabet; Napoleon REFUSES.
Paired Clams begins: Catapult (8 turns)
Bronzed Fish begins: Axeman (11 turns)

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 180/750 (100 AD) [12-May-2011 00:33:56]
Spicy Rice begins: Lighthouse (44 turns)
0% Research: 32 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 49 per turn, 60 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Spicy Rice
Stone Mountain finishes: Granary
Paired Clams finishes: Catapult
Bronzed Fish finishes: Axeman
Golden Hills grows to size 3
Spicy Rice finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 181/750 (115 AD) [12-May-2011 00:48:42]
Bronzed Fish begins: Trireme (2 turns)
Spicy Rice begins: Granary (78 turns)
Paired Clams begins: Catapult (13 turns)
100% Research: 166 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -69 per turn, 109 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Code of Laws
Clam Chowder grows to size 8
Christianity has spread: Fish Hills
Bronzed Fish grows to size 4

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Catherine (Russia) towards Victoria (England), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Joao II (Portugal) towards Napoleon (France), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Civics Change: Willem van Oranje(Netherlands) from 'Slavery' to 'Caste System'

Turn 182/750 (130 AD) [12-May-2011 01:01:28]
Research begun: Philosophy (8 Turns)
Stone Mountain begins: Courthouse (45 turns)
Swordsman 1 (Paired Clams) promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman 1 (Paired Clams) promoted: City Raider II
0% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 67 per turn, 40 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Clam Chowder
Whip anger has decreased in Bronzed Fish
Clam Chowder finishes: National Epic
Fish Hills grows to size 4
Fish Hills finishes: Work Boat
Bronzed Fish finishes: Trireme

Turn 183/750 (145 AD) [12-May-2011 01:10:53]
Clam Chowder begins: Buddhist Monastery (30 turns)
Fish Hills begins: Galley (19 turns)
Bronzed Fish begins: Archer (8 turns)
Bronzed Fish begins: Courthouse (18 turns)
A Workshop was built near Clam Chowder
0% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 68 per turn, 107 in the bank

After End Turn:
Clam Chowder grows to size 5
Paired Clams grows to size 4
Marbled Clam grows to size 4
Golden Hills grows to size 4

Turn 184/750 (160 AD) [12-May-2011 01:20:23]
Napoleon (France) declares war on Victoria (England)
A Mine was built near Spicy Rice
0% Research: 26 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 67 per turn, 175 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Paired Clams
Clam Chowder's borders expand
Stone Mountain grows to size 2
Golden Hills finishes: Work Boat

Other Player Actions:
While defending in English territory at London, Catapult loses to English Axeman (0.25/5) (Prob Victory: 31.9%)
Attitude Change: Victoria (England) towards Napoleon (France), from 'Pleased' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Willem van Oranje (Netherlands) towards Napoleon (France), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Isabella (Spain) towards Napoleon (France), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 185/750 (175 AD) [12-May-2011 01:32:11]
Golden Hills begins: Archer (10 turns)
Paired Clams begins: Axeman (9 turns)
A Mine was destroyed by French Axeman 1 (Fish Hills) (16 gold)
A Workshop was built near Fish Hills
A Fort was destroyed by French Axeman (0 gold)
0% Research: 26 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 73 per turn, 258 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Marbled Clam
Clam Chowder grows to size 6
Bronzed Fish grows to size 5
Spicy Rice grows to size 2

Turn 186/750 (190 AD) [12-May-2011 01:40:07]
0% Research: 33 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 78 per turn, 331 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Clam Chowder
Fish Hills grows to size 5
Paired Clams grows to size 5
Furry Crabs grows to size 4
Spicy Rice's borders expand

Other Player Actions:
While defending in English territory at York, Axeman loses to English Axeman (1.20/5) (Prob Victory: 31.9%)
Attitude Change: Isabella (Spain) towards Ragnar (Vikings), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'

Turn 187/750 (205 AD) [12-May-2011 01:44:02]
A Fishing Boats was built near Spicy Rice
0% Research: 33 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 85 per turn, 409 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Fish Hills
Whip anger has decreased in Stone Mountain
The whip was applied in Paired Clams
Whip anger has decreased in Golden Hills
Clam Chowder grows to size 7
Stone Mountain grows to size 3
Paired Clams finishes: Catapult
Golden Hills grows to size 5

Other Player Actions:
While defending in English territory at London, Catapult 1 (Paired Clams) (2.00/5) defeats English Axeman (Prob Victory: 31.9%)
While defending in English territory at London, Axeman loses to English Swordsman (2.04/6) (Prob Victory: 74.9%)
While defending in English territory at London, Axeman 2 (Bronzed Fish) (2.45/5) defeats English Swordsman (Prob Victory: 74.9%)
While defending in English territory at London, Swordsman 1 (Paired Clams) loses to English Swordsman (6.00/6) (Prob Victory: 50.0%)
Civics Change: Catherine(Russia) from 'Barbarism' to 'Vassalage'

Turn 188/750 (220 AD) [12-May-2011 01:47:16]
Diplomacy (Embargo Request): Catherine (Russia) asks Napoleon (France) to stop trading with Isabella (Spain); Napoleon REFUSES.
Paired Clams begins: Axeman (7 turns)
Catapult 1 (Paired Clams) promoted: City Raider I
Catapult 1 (Paired Clams) promoted: Accuracy
Catapult 3 (Paired Clams) promoted: City Raider I
While attacking, Catapult 3 (Paired Clams) escapes from English Swordsman (Prob Victory: 29.6%)
While attacking in English territory at London, Catapult 3 (Paired Clams) loses to English Swordsman (3.12/6) (Prob Victory: 29.6%)
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
While attacking, Catapult 2 (Bronzed Fish) decimates English Archer (Prob Victory: 51.4%)
While attacking, Swordsman decimates English Archer (Prob Victory: 94.8%)
While attacking in English territory at London, Swordsman (1.20/6) defeats English Archer (Prob Victory: 94.8%)
While attacking, Swordsman decimates English Bernard Montgomery (Archer) (Prob Victory: 81.8%)
While attacking in English territory at London, Swordsman (4.92/6) defeats English Bernard Montgomery (Prob Victory: 81.8%)
While attacking, Axeman 1 (Fish Hills) decimates English Swordsman (Prob Victory: 89.1%)
While attacking in English territory at London, Axeman 1 (Fish Hills) (4.00/5) defeats English Swordsman (Prob Victory: 89.1%)
While attacking, Swordsman decimates English Swordsman (Prob Victory: 98.0%)
While attacking in English territory at London, Swordsman (4.80/6) defeats English Swordsman (Prob Victory: 98.0%)
While attacking, Archer decimates English Archer (Prob Victory: 98.0%)
While attacking in English territory at London, Archer (2.34/3) defeats English Archer (Prob Victory: 98.0%)
Christianity has spread: London
Captured London (Victoria)
London begins: Catapult (76 turns)


I will update the test game tomorrow.

The save is herehttp://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm13/Gypsy_Kings_SG013_AD0220_01.CivBeyondSwordSave
 
The Roster order is

mabraham = in the hole
adrianj = on deck
Ronnie1 = just played
bcool = UP NOW

AWOL
grifftavian = waiting
Thorn = waiting
da_Vinci = waiting
 
Wow, Vicky had the world... well done. Unfortunately we can't do a fast naval war on York because her triremes chased us off :-( We probably want to try to rendezvous the trireme stacks. Anyway, we might judge we haven't got enough stuff to try for York any time soon.
 
Other notes...

Turnset Notes T178

Change build in SR to Monastery
Change build in GH to Trireme

trading techs and resources
check espionage
check for enemy barbarian entering our lands
check for any AI going into war prep mode > Everyone IS in war or war prep except Joao
check MM for every city
checking cultural view

City Espionage….all numbers are for sabotaging production unless noted otherwise
London 921 ….maybe we get lucky and she builds a wonder for us!
Rostov 1167…..
Utrecht 2910

IBT - nothing

Turnset Notes T179

FH growth added as Scientist…won’t slow growth to size 8
Whip GH
Whip BF
Whip PC

trading techs and resources
check espionage
check for enemy barbarian entering our lands
check for any AI going into war prep mode > Everyone IS in war or war prep except Joao
check MM for every city
checking cultural view

City Espionage….all numbers are for sabotaging production unless noted otherwise
London 0 ….no wonder
Rostov 0
Utrecht 3190

EP switched to Cathy

IBT – Ragnar demands Alphabet, I politely decline.
Buddhism spreads to CC….I will revert SR to old plan and whip LH now > Granary
2nd big break….Willem switches to Taoism!!!

Turnset Notes T180

New builds in BF & PC, GH back to WB, SR see above

trading techs and resources
check espionage
check for enemy barbarian entering our lands
check for any AI going into war prep mode > Everyone IS in war or war prep except Joao
check MM for every city
checking cultural view

City Espionage….all numbers are for sabotaging production unless noted otherwise
Utrecht 3161

We cannot support 100% science, so I go to 0 for 1 turn.

IBT - nothing

Turnset Notes T181

trading techs and resources
check espionage
check for enemy barbarian entering our lands
check for any AI going into war prep mode > Everyone IS in war or war prep except Joao
check MM for every city
checking cultural view

City Espionage….all numbers are for sabotaging production unless noted otherwise
Utrecht 3469

Back to 100% Science

IBT – Christianity spreads into FH

Turnset Notes T182

Research set to Philosophy at 0%
Whip NE in CC

trading techs and resources
check espionage
check for enemy barbarian entering our lands
check for any AI going into war prep mode
check MM for every city
checking cultural view

IBT – nothing

Turnset Notes T183

CC starts Buddhist Monastery
All units in place for DoW

trading techs and resources
check espionage
check for enemy barbarian entering our lands
check for any AI going into war prep mode
check MM for every city
checking cultural view

City Espionage….all numbers are for sabotaging production unless noted otherwise
Utrecht 3749

IBT -

Turnset Notes T184

Cathy has learned Feudalism

1st mistake…I forgot to move Magellan before DoW….he is stuck in a lake. 
Land troops/stack moves

trading techs and resources
check espionage
check for enemy barbarian entering our lands
check for any AI going into war prep mode
check MM for every city
checking cultural view

City Espionage….all numbers are for sabotaging production unless noted otherwise
Utrecht 4029

IBT -

Turnset Notes T185

trading techs and resources
check espionage
check for enemy barbarian entering our lands
check for any AI going into war prep mode
check MM for every city
checking cultural view

see logs ....all the fighting is there
 
wow, nice job taking out London!
(thank god we brought the archer!)

a few things that would really nice to know
Everyone IS in war or war prep except Joao
what was the diplomatic situation when they went into war prep (willem wasn't in war prep in the save game, I assume he didn't go in and out in just a few turns?)
did we get a chance to see what willem was teching after music?

If Cathy is targeting us we might be in for a rude surprise (I hope it is Willem but it isn't him if they were friendly at the time of the war prep mode)

We need to scout the situation with Cathy.

We might actually want to go into Christianity instead of buddhism. (London and Fish Hills both have Christianity)

FH can whip a monastry and build a missionary for us I think to spread christianity to CC
edit: Or do we want to go into taoism now that Willem is in Taoism. We could get friendly with him (assuming he isn't wiped out by Cathy)

I assume I will want to play 1 more turn soon so we know what Great Person we get. It will change things a lot. So let me know what you think we need to change for the 1st turn.

Also I'm going out with friends tomorrow night so I won't be able to get an initial PPP out until Friday, but I'm open to any and all suggestions.
 
Here are my thoughts for the next turn T188(to be played w/i 24 hours hopefully so we know what Great person we are going to get)

CC 3Nets, CF, 2 sci, 1 eng (continues with monastery)
FH Fish, 4coast (switch to christian monastery) (if I'm right coast allows us to grow back to 4 pop with a 2 pop whip of monastery next turn)
SM 2 coast, fish continue courthouse
PC 2Nets, Iron Mine, finish axe
MC 2 coast, Clam, Marble continue Moai
BF whip courthouse (fish, copper, coast afterwards)
FC whip granary (crabs and plains forest afterwards?)
GH switch to courthouse
SR fish, rice continue granary (although I'm leaning toward going back to the taoist monastery given Willem's switch to Taoism)

New Galley drop off 1 worker on each forest near MC for chopping into Moai

Galleys & triremes near PC wait for axe build in PC

Galleys & triremes near nottingham, sail south

(I want to take out Nottingham)

I think by T193 we can have 7 mostly healthy units next to nottingham (3 catapults (1CR1Bomb, 1 CR1, 1 0xp) , 2 swords (1 Combat1, other CRI, CRII might not be fully healed) and 2 axes (1 with Combat1, other 3/2 xp) (leaving the sword promoted to CombatI, wounded axe, catapult, archer in London) (planning to promo archer to combat1 and medic1 so those units are healthy for any attack Vicky can muster)

knocking out Nottingham gives us better access to London, sheep eventually, and knocks out Vicky's ability to launch naval attacks at least for the foreseeable future. If the battle goes well we could conceivably take the experienced units to finish York (maybe with a reinforcement or 2 from PC if it isn't completely whipped to the bone) Assuming of course that Vicky is researching construction not feudalism.

trade copper to joao for silk.
 
wow, nice job taking out London!
(thank god we brought the archer!)

a few things that would really nice to know

what was the diplomatic situation when they went into war prep (willem wasn't in war prep in the save game, I assume he didn't go in and out in just a few turns?)

Ron's notes say WvO and Cathy were WHEOOHRN before he switched to Taoism.

did we get a chance to see what willem was teching after music?

Yes, we want to know that. I'm not sure it's worth switching away, but we should have seen this T179.

If Cathy is targeting us we might be in for a rude surprise (I hope it is Willem but it isn't him if they were friendly at the time of the war prep mode)

Izzy is currently her worst enemy - but we will be when we pick a religion.

We need to scout the situation with Cathy.

We might actually want to go into Christianity instead of buddhism. (London and Fish Hills both have Christianity)

Plausible, but I think we have more to gain from getting WvO to Friendly by switching to Taoism. Trading for Feudalism or Guilds would be awesome.

FH can whip a monastry and build a missionary for us I think to spread christianity to CC
edit: Or do we want to go into taoism now that Willem is in Taoism. We could get friendly with him (assuming he isn't wiped out by Cathy)

I think Cathy is after Izzy.

I assume I will want to play 1 more turn soon so we know what Great Person we get. It will change things a lot. So let me know what you think we need to change for the 1st turn.

Also I'm going out with friends tomorrow night so I won't be able to get an initial PPP out until Friday, but I'm open to any and all suggestions.
 
Here are my thoughts for the next turn T188(to be played w/i 24 hours hopefully so we know what Great person we are going to get)

CC 3Nets, CF, 2 sci, 1 eng (continues with monastery)
FH Fish, 4coast (switch to christian monastery) (if I'm right coast allows us to grow back to 4 pop with a 2 pop whip of monastery next turn)

Don't like Christianity. Taoism offers us a genuine chance to gain. Christianity offers us maybe a 50% prophet/engineer earlier - which might come in anyway from the second Taoist missionary. Would rather FH whips a settler for the silver site north of London. We'll want a workboat or two to go with it.

SM 2 coast, fish continue courthouse
PC 2Nets, Iron Mine, finish axe
MC 2 coast, Clam, Marble continue Moai
BF whip courthouse (fish, copper, coast afterwards)
FC whip granary (crabs and plains forest afterwards?)

Yeah, whip granary. The text plan suggested we switch to PForest back on T183 so that we'd be able to whip both courthouse and granary by T195. However, I have learned my lesson and will not write plans for people in future. Assuming I was right that we won't be able to whip the courthouse in time, then we may as well work coasts rather than PForests.

GH switch to courthouse
SR fish, rice continue granary (although I'm leaning toward going back to the taoist monastery given Willem's switch to Taoism)

Want Taoism.

New Galley drop off 1 worker on each forest near MC for chopping into Moai

Galleys & triremes near PC wait for axe build in PC

Galleys & triremes near nottingham, sail south

But end turn two moves away from Nottingham, to reduce the chance of seeing combat. Also, bring La Couronne with C1 upgrade east to join the stack that might see action with Vicky.

(I want to take out Nottingham)

I think by T193 we can have 7 mostly healthy units next to nottingham (3 catapults (1CR1Bomb, 1 CR1, 1 0xp) , 2 swords (1 Combat1, other CRI, CRII might not be fully healed) and 2 axes (1 with Combat1, other 3/2 xp) (leaving the sword promoted to CombatI, wounded axe, catapult, archer in London) (planning to promo archer to combat1 and medic1 so those units are healthy for any attack Vicky can muster)

knocking out Nottingham gives us better access to London, sheep eventually, and knocks out Vicky's ability to launch naval attacks at least for the foreseeable future. If the battle goes well we could conceivably take the experienced units to finish York (maybe with a reinforcement or 2 from PC if it isn't completely whipped to the bone) Assuming of course that Vicky is researching construction not feudalism.

Happy to try for Nottingham as above, pending what we see when the boats go past. Obviously, take notes on what units are where. Perhaps pair of triremes should lurk near Nottingham to run in and out of visibility each turn. Less risk when La Couronne can join in.

Note that Vicky will lose culture on the cottage between Nottingham and London, and this might be a factor in how the army walks.

Did we cut off the eastern iron successfully?

Since Magellan is costing us money, do we want to stop paying 1:gold:/turn for the privilege of seeing 10 largely immaterial tiles? We're never going to have the worker time to build him a fort.

Note that York can still build naval units and they can get out if she builds another fort - which she might have half finished by now.
 
I'm happy to go back to taoism, but I don't have time to work out what is possible now. I doubt we can get 2 missionaries out, and so it is a risk since if the missionary fails to spread the religion in CC.

Just making sure everyone is okay with the risk.
 
I'm happy to go back to taoism, but I don't have time to work out what is possible now. I doubt we can get 2 missionaries out, and so it is a risk since if the missionary fails to spread the religion in CC.

Just making sure everyone is okay with the risk.

We don't have to commit to a T195 Paci revolt if we've learned Taoism didn't spread... just Caste is OK until we've grown CC a bit, and SR can slow-build a missionary in 10 turns. Note that Ron didn't put a turn on a road in SR like the plan suggested to do, so the SR chops are currently in sync.
 
sorry...Willem and Joao were never WEEHORN.

Cathy was WEEHORN before the start of my set.
Ragnar and Isa are at war.
And Vicky of course is not pleased.

Note that Ron didn't put a turn on a road in SR like the plan suggested to do, so the SR chops are currently in sync.
Yes, when I went back to previous plan, I didn't worry about not syncing.

I also missed the tile change in FC, I am still waiting for it to get closer to 1/2 food bar so I can whip it!

I am not sure Taoism is a good choice. It is a significant investment at a time when we don't have hammers to spare. I think the Willem and Cathy will eventually go to war based on current religious situation. I think we need to try and finish off Vicky and be read to jump across and grab Moscow.
 
(thank god we brought the archer!)
He did have the best odds for the last combat!
 
I am not sure Taoism is a good choice. It is a significant investment at a time when we don't have hammers to spare. I think the Willem and Cathy will eventually go to war based on current religious situation. I think we need to try and finish off Vicky and be read to jump across and grab Moscow.

If we get friendly with Willem, it could easily mean we could trade for a tech we couldn't otherwise. This could mean we get 1000+ :science: that we wouldn't get otherwise. I think it is worth the extra cost (basically the cost of delaying the granary and courthouse in spicy rice ~20 turns.
 
But end turn two moves away from Nottingham, to reduce the chance of seeing combat. Also, bring La Couronne with C1 upgrade east to join the stack that might see action with Vicky
.

Acknowledged and agree



Note that Vicky will lose culture on the cottage between Nottingham and London, and this might be a factor in how the army walks.
yes

Did we cut off the eastern iron successfully?
yes but she is probably rebuilding the fort (with at least 1 probably 2 workers) Ron, did you see if she was hiding workers in York before that axe died?

Since Magellan is costing us money, do we want to stop paying 1/turn for the privilege of seeing 10 largely immaterial tiles? We're never going to have the worker time to build him a fort.
yes I think we can disband him (I will have a moment of silence for him)

Note that York can still build naval units and they can get out if she builds another fort - which she might have half finished by now.

Yes but we will have quite a bit of time before this route poses any threat to us.
 
Can someone work how to get 2 more units out of PC?

I think we put OF from axe onto a sword T189, Switch to axe T190, 2 pop whip the axe next turn T191, then finish? the sword the next turn T192.

Is it possible to sync the arrival of these units with the fall of Nottingham or even to get them into the action with galley chaining? Might have to be careful here obviously if there are trireme to the west of Nottingham or inside Nottingham.

Other units around London move into London next turn. archer is promoted to Combat 1 and medic 1. Units rest T190, then 2 swords, 2 catapults and 1 axe start walking towards Nottingham assuming it is safe (no very large stack from York coming) sword with CRI can promote to CRII so it heals a bit faster. axe can be promoted to combat I (and possibly one sword as well) now (to protect from attacks before the stack is ready to attack Nottingham.

The axe and catapult from PC can galley chain over to Nottingham. (and the galley can perhaps shift back and take more units from PC)
 
Updated PPP for T188 only (please let me know if I've missed anything)

Here are my thoughts for the next turn T188(to be played w/i 18 hours hopefully so we know what Great person we are going to get)

CC 3Nets, CF, 2 sci, 1 eng (continues with monastery)
FH Fish, 4coast (switch to christian monastery) (if I'm right coast allows us to grow back to 4 pop with a 2 pop whip of monastery next turn) max growth by working coast and fish while working on the galley. With an eye to 3 pop whip a settler in the near future for the silver or Ivory site on Vicky's land mass.

SM 2 coast, fish continue courthouse
PC 2Nets, Iron Mine, finish axe
MC 2 coast, Clam, Marble continue Moai
BF whip courthouse (fish, copper, coast afterwards)
FC whip granary (crabs and plains forest afterwards? coast) If we can't whip the courthouse before the planned switch eventually a worker might be sent up and we can chop a forest to potentially finish the courthouse.

GH switch to courthouse
SR fish, rice continue granary switch build back to taoist monastery

New Galley drop off 1 worker on each forest near MC for chopping into Moai, then moves 1 back towards warrior sitting on 3 tile crab island.

Galleys & triremes near PC wait for axe build in PC
Galleys wait, but I will send La C trireme ahead.

Galleys & triremes near nottingham, sail south making sure to note units in Nottingham along the way and ending the turn 2 away from Nottingham

trade copper to joao for silk.

check espionage sabotage values
check tech trades (none possible?)
I assume no gold trades nothing seemed exciting to me.

disband magellan
 
yes but she is probably rebuilding the fort (with at least 1 probably 2 workers) Ron, did you see if she was hiding workers in York before that axe died?
I saw at least 3 workers. We should send an axe towards that iron. I don't think she has many metal units left in the eastern area, there may be one severely damaged axe, .05/5 I think when I last saw it, the axe that killed our first cat in the forest. There was also the axe that killed our eastern axe, she probably has that axe available and fairly healthy.

Switch EP back to Willem, we will see his research in 2 turns.

The archer in London can be promoted this turn to be a little safer.

Play it ASAP IMO.
 
Ok sundry suggestions for bc - spreadsheet and PDF attached.

I'd like to send an axe to hassle the eastern iron, but with Vicky having at least one upgraded axe around, it feels like a suicide mission. We've only got two axes with the London stack. Note that the axe+cat from PC can get to the Nottingham hill in time to provide cover and tile sight for the stack walking from London, so we might be able to risk not sending an axe with the London walking stack.

It seems to me that SR forgot to work the unimproved fish when the border popped, and the improved fish when the workboat planted, so we are 5:food: behind the game there. So the first Taoist missionary arrives at CC about T198, so there's no rush on Paci, so there's no rush on Philo. If Drama gives 10% reduction to Philo, and we'll eventually get both, we should get Drama first. Our :gold: stockpile is enough to do both.

Accordingly, we want to focus on growth in CC, not specialists - effectively we're running "0%:gp:" now to get better multiplier later. However, happiness will force us to compromise. It turns out that CC didn't follow option 3, it did something else that grew more slowly and didn't provide a faster GPerson. So we can switch off the engineer and a scientist this turn and still get the GPerson, and grow to size 8 faster. (Note that size 8 is desirable to open the chance for "We Love the King" for no city maintenance) That roughly recovers the scenario from option 3. We probably can't keep growing at that rate, so I'm going to suggest some mines to get the Buddhist Monastery done sooner. Note PMine tile-sharing plan in the PDF. We might even have to pass the corn back for a turn, but it's hard for me to assess the happiness position. Don't grow :mad: anyway!

PC can send cat+axe on the existing galley chain on T189. Then Ferry rushes to FH, because FH can whip a settler on T193. Meanwhile PC can juggle tiles to put out another cat + axe ready to go T193, by which stage we have the galleys back from Nottingham to set up a new chain. The settler from FH links up with Hoover on the back of the galley chain, aiming at the silver site.

That silver site needs workboats, and we should send the workboat sitting in GH to help out. GH should switch off its archer and whip a courthouse ASAP, and then slow-build a workboat in time for its border pop.

SM should also whip a courthouse in a while and slow-build a workboat for the silver site.

BF should whip a courthouse and start a worker, because we haven't produced a galley out of FH, we won't be getting workers over to BF as well as missionaries to CC any time soon.

FC should whip a granary in a couple of turns (as the food box approaches half full) and slow-build a courthouse
 

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