[MODULE] JotnarL - Reworking of the Jotnar Giant Civ

Looks good!

I'm in the middle of a game of RifE (with Snarko's patch) right now, and don't want to risk breaking a save game, so will download and install after I finish that.

And again, not compatible with Panivo, right? So will have to make one of those modules inactive to play with the other, yes? Again, I have no problem with that, as my main interest would be in playing these two civs myself, since I'm not sure how well the AI will handle them, especially the Panivo.

Feedback when I (eventually) have some. And thanks again for your work on this.
 
Panivo and JotnarL modules are not compatible.

Panivo is a human player only civ. The AI has not been taught how to play the Panivo. I don't think that I play any civ to its full potential and was a bit intimidated by the scale of AI editing I'd need to do to make the Panivo AI playable.

If I get enough feedback on strategies that work well for them - really quick rules of thumb to avoid excessive python calculating, I might look at training the AI in the future. That would be on a very, very long finger though.
 
JotnarL and Unexplore with Ashes of Erebus:

Spoiler :
I put the Jotnar_L folder in the modules folder, then merged the AoE folder over it. I used the versions up on 24/10/2014. I think I did it right, but am still getting exceptions.
Eight pop-ups on game load:
1.) Tag: TERRAIN_GLACIAL in Info class was incorrect
Current XML file is:
modules\NormalModules\JotnarL\Units\JotnarL_CIV4PromotionInfos.XML
2.) Index is -1 inside function
(same file as above)
3.) same as #1, except TERRAIN_SNOW
4.) same as #2
5.) same as #1
6.) same as #2
7.) same as #3
8.) same as #2

TXT_KEY_JOT_GIANTKIN

The Civic change pop-up for Eugenics at Animal Handling says "Great People are rarer". This is inconsistent with F3 and F12.

Also, if I remember right, it says it allows racial choice at unit birth/ construction. It would be helpful to add this to the 'Pedia entry.

The Ikol (Giant wants pigs) event gave this exception:
File "CvEventInterface", line 30, in onEvent
File "CvCustomEventManager", line 138, in handleEvent
File "CvCustomEventManager", line 149, in _handleDefaultEvent
File "CvUnitStatisticsEventManager", line 305, in onUnitKilled
File "UnitStatisticsTools", line 291, in checkHighScoresCurrentUnit
TypeError: unscriptable object
-OTOH, it did successfully place a Bergrisar.
--I got the exception even if another civ got the event.

The Bergrisar mentions Midwives leaders, and there is a stub entry in Traits, but I see no mention under the Jotnar or their leaders.

The Civilizations entry for the Jotnar (The Jotnar?), says Construction allows the building of a Siege Battery which reduces the cost of District improvements. The Siege Battery entry says nothing about improvements.

The link to District Battery in Siege Battery: Strategy doesn't work.

The Siege and District Batteries seem to be exactly the same but for a tiny cost difference and the fact that the latter requires Plans. Possibly intended.

F2: mouseover Unit Cost: 6:gold: Extra Unit cost, -3:gold: Handicap cost.
If I remove 7 Citizens: 3:gold: Extra Unit cost, -2:gold: Handicap cost.
Turn 101: Unit Cost: 28:gold: Extra Unit cost, -12:gold: Handicap cost.
Less 49 Citizens: 5:gold: Extra Unit cost, -2:gold: Handicap cost.
And AI civs won't attack me because I have an enormous army of Citizens.
Perhaps you could have a two-stage District mechanism (New District/ Populated District?) instead? I think it would look better, too. Marking them with Runt/Troll/Giant leaves your World Spells usable.
OTOH, I am playing Mother Enningas; my maintenance is 3:gold:/city at a point where it was 13:gold: with Ydil. I can't make Ildset Mors fast enough to keep up with income.
-Turn 101, capital size 9 (but building Forum), biggest city pop 14.

Religion weirdness: the OO sound is the one I was getting with Ydil.
Converting to OO makes me Chaotic, to Leaves Neutral, to Hand Lawful, to Veil Evil, and to Runes, Esus, Empy or Order leaves me LG. Parts of this are not the way I remember RiFE, and make less sense.

The Jotnar civ entry says Religion (I assume the civic) allows the sacrifice of Runt units. I tried deleting a Runt Citizen before and after converting to Religion and saw no difference.

I discovered and converted to Runes of Kilmorph successfully, but am unable to spread it with the Gothi I received. If it's a replacement for a Thane, as the 'Pedia entry says, I think I should be able to. Or did I get an untyped one?
-Tablets of Bambur is spreading it ...slowly. I think a second religion is contraindicated.

The civ entry says "Young Trolls are vulnerable to Recon units and might even be subdued by them". I don't think this is right; they are Recon, not Animal. If Feral makes them Barbarian they don't seem to become especially vulnerable, either. The Feral trait entry only mentions "Animal Units" under "Available To", so possibly you meant to swap their combat categories when they became Barbs and then forgot.

Turn 86: a Cyklop shows up. Giantkin, so 5/6 Str & move 3 with no terrain cost. This certainly makes the game more interesting. The other civs can't kill them easily and have to hope they kill themselves attacking, because otherwise the Barb cities will just keep pushing them out until they can't be stopped.

Braduk built a Sea District on a Clam in preference to building on a wooded hill with no resource. (I have Bronze Working; it could have built there.) It should not do that.

A Cyklop took out a Citizen on a Volcano. I killed it, but for some reason it says it is a Savage District. Can I build there? -Yes I can!

Turn 96: Switched to Caste System: "Workers Build Improvements +50% Faster." Then I noticed only Egrass qualified as a Worker.

The 'Pedia entry for the Jotnar Crossbowman is fine, but the old Crossbowman has a red dome for the unit picture.

TXT_KEY_TECH_CARTOGRAPHY_PEDIA


Re Unexplore: I thought I'd try this - one of my design docs is for a short-sighted civ.
I didn't enjoy it; I have enough trouble with forgetting things already:). My auto-exploring Galleons just wanted to buzz back and forth until some Cyklops waded out and got them. (I hadn't gotten to Eng/Div/Nec when I quit.)
Are AI civs not expanding because they can't see city sites? If so, why not make it so that nearby tiles - say, within 8 squares radius of the capital or 4 or 5 of the border - are remembered for longer (or forever)? That ought to give them enough of a start to get to Cartography. And maybe move the second visibility trigger down to Sailing or so?
 
I put the Jotnar_L folder in the modules folder, then merged the AoE folder over it. I used the versions up on 24/10/2014. I think I did it right, but am still getting exceptions.
Eight pop-ups on game load:
1.) Tag: TERRAIN_GLACIAL in Info class was incorrect
Current XML file is:
modules\NormalModules\JotnarL\Units\JotnarL_CIV4PromotionInfos.XML
2.) Index is -1 inside function
(same file as above)
3.) same as #1, except TERRAIN_SNOW
4.) same as #2
5.) same as #1
6.) same as #2
7.) same as #3
8.) same as #2
Hi,
It's unfortunately "normal".
Basically, RifE introduced a third level of cold: glacial.
Some code was changed but not everything, leading to inconsistencies and bugs. (3 basic examples in column B)
I had to spend dozens of hours to fix it: bug 64

Advantage1: several bugs related to cold levels were fixed this way
Advantage2: any change relative to cold terrain has become far easier: no need for a modder to know that terrainclass_tundra is called taiga for players, and that tundra is in fact terrainclass_snow :crazyeye:
Now, the names are all logical.
Problem: added another incompatibility with jotnar and frozen modules. As these were already broken before I did any change, I didn't consider this vital.
And in case anyone was willing to fix the modules, I listed all variable changes in column I.

Good luck :)
 
Hi,
It's unfortunately "normal".
Basically, RifE introduced a third level of cold: glacial.
Some code was changed but not everything, leading to inconsistencies and bugs. (3 basic examples in column B)
I had to spend dozens of hours to fix it: bug 64

Advantage1: several bugs related to cold levels were fixed this way
Advantage2: any change relative to cold terrain has become far easier: no need for a modder to know that terrainclass_tundra is called taiga for players, and that tundra is in fact terrainclass_snow :crazyeye:
Now, the names are all logical.
Problem: added another incompatibility with jotnar and frozen modules. As these were already broken before I did any change, I didn't consider this vital.
And in case anyone was willing to fix the modules, I listed all variable changes in column I.

Good luck :)

This probably explains why the "End of Winter" option in RifE didn't work properly -- the terrain didn't thaw anywhere near as quickly as it was supposed to. I've noticed in Ashes of Erebus that "End of Winter" seemed to be working correctly and was wondering what you might have done.
 
Hi Lark,

Thanks for taking the time to let me know about these issues.

  • PromotionInfos was not included in the AoE patch. This was pure omission on my part. I'm adding it back in when I reissue.
  • TXT_KEY_JOT_GIANTKIN is correctly displayed as "Giantkin" when I check it in the game. I have not changed this. It may have been down to the PromotionInfos xml absence in the AoE patch.
  • Reduction in GP for Eugenics was removed in version 0.14. Text edited to reflect this. The Eugenics strategy mentions that it allows the race to be assigned but I can not find when this text is displayed, so I've added it to the Pedia entry as suggested.
  • Created JotnarL specific version of the pig giant event. Also fixed the wild hill giant unit, as it was referencing both old and new versions of giantkin.
  • Pedia entry added for the Midwives trait.
  • Reworded the Civilization entry wrt Construction. Construction reduces the build cost of Districts. Construction also allows the building of Siege Battery units. Its two separate effects of Construction.
  • Broken District Battery link in Siege Battery pedia entry fixed. The Siege Battery and District Battery are as intended. Both are immobile units. Siege Batteries and District Batteries are essentially the same but Siege Batteries are created within the cities that build them. District Batteries are created on the District where the Citizen has the Plans promotion.
  • Citizens are supposed to be the defenders of the JotnarL civilization. I've tried adjusting the iAsset, iPower and iTier values with no apparent impact on the civilizations Power rating due to the Citizens. Their power contribution seems to be about a half that of a warrior, which is fair enough given that they are purely defensive.
  • Regarding the city size - what difficulty do you play at? At more difficult levels, cities are allowed less growth before they have to have Citizens in Districts.
  • I haven't touched religious sound effects in any of my mods.
  • The Jotnar Civilization entry recommends choosing a religion, e.g. OO, which allows the player to convert Runts into undead units. Undead do not affect the race calculations but the more living Runts that you have, the more likely that any subsequent units will also be Runts. I've added a bit onto the Religion part of the Civilization entry to clarify the previous recommendation.
  • There are multiple Gothi units. I had only allowed for the buildable one to be able to spread the word. It was not available to the free gothi received for religions other than Empyrean. I've amended the python to fix this.
  • Added back in the weakness against recon as part of the Trollkin promo. They are supposed to be vulnerable until they get older.
  • Cyclops are Giants but don't get the aging benefits so they are not as dangerous in the long term as other savage giants.
  • Unoccupied Districts can be claimed by anyone who is at war with the current owner so an unoccupied savage district should be claimable. When you said you could build there, had you claimed it first?
  • Egrass is the only worker unit available to human JotnarL players. This is intentional. The JotnarL can build using all of the other units and do not have dedicated workers for the human player.
  • The crossbowman red blob has been fixed - I deleted an obsolete crossbow reference from the unit art defines and this seems to have resolved the issue.
  • The Cartography pedia entry displays correctly for me.

I don't have AoE on the laptop with me and it wouldn't unzip properly for me. I'll check the updates for the new AoE patch with AoE this week-end before issuing the corrections.



Regarding Unexplore, the module is specifically for someone who is manually controlling their exploration. A player needs to take an active interest in exploration, so they can remember the tiles revealed. The AI players do not suffer from forgetting previously explored terrain and so are not hindered. A human player's units set to automatically explore will suffer from running around in circles. The module was created as an experiment to see if that kind of additional fog of war effect would be of interest. Its good to get the negative feedback on it but I will not be making any further changes to the Unexplore module.
 
Version 1.1 issued.

AoE patch has been tested and text errors and xml glitches found by Lark have been resolved.

As well as the changes mentioned in the previous post, I've made a couple of extra changes to the UnitInfos based on Lark's comments.
  • Cyklops attack and defence lowered by one. They get boosted by the giantkin promo so they are still better than the original cyclops.
  • Citizens attack value removed and city defence bonus removed. This reduces the power value for these units so there is more of a chance of AI attacks when you've a load of citizens, whilst maintaining their defender purpose.
 
@Lplate:

Can you please clarify something under "Compatibility" in the first post of this thread?

To install for Ashes of Erebus, does one need to download and install *both* files? I understand that for RifE we just need the first zip file. My question specifically is whether for AoE we first need the "JotnarL' zip file and only then the "AoE Patch." (Given how much larger the JotnarL file is, I suspect the answer is yes, but it would be helpful if the first post clarified this.)

Thanks.
 
You need both for AoE.
 
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