Tourism Influence Victory Woes

thelibra

Future World Dictator
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So, I decided to go for a tourism win (using Morocco). Everything I did was in an attempt to increase tourism. Every artifact that could go into a great-work slot, did so. Specialists were always kept in guilds and great-works that applied. I achieved several wonders specific to culture and tourism, and put hotels in each city with a wonder, and by the late-game (around 1950) I was producing over 100 tourism a turn. I was quite proud of myself...

...then I get a popup saying Washington was the first city to achieve influence, a chart opens up, and voila, Washington has a whopping 200+ tourism. WTF? And even if I had been making 200 tourism a turn, how can that possibly catch up to cultures who are producing close to 500 culture per turn?

Is tourism win broken, or am I missing out on a key mechanic here? Is there a good guide for howto get a tourism win? There's very little useful information in the Civlopedia.

Some general specifics are that I chose as my policies:
Tradition (completed), Honor (completed), Exploration (completed - chosen instead of Aesthetics because it unlocked hidden antiquity sites), and Freedom Ideology.

I filled every city with a museum and nearly every single available great work slot with art or writing (music was slow in coming, but I got Broadway and started producing them).

So what are your best tips (aside from choosing France) for a tourism win?



On an unrelated note, why no "tourism" Post Icon on Civfanatics?
 
1. Aestethic is a very important Policy.. especially the finisher
2. THemeing Bonuses, you mention none of it, so I assume you haven't
3. Hotels, Airports and the National Information Agency or whatever
4. 100 is not much, by the near-end game you shoul be producing about 500, you will never win with only 100 per turn, the goal of Tourism is to make more Tourism than they are producing Culture.
 
Aesthetics is a very important tree for Culture Victory. You shouldn't really need the hidden archaeology sites - I usually only open Exploration to get Louvre (well worth going for as the theming bonus is HUGE) and ignore the rest of the tree. Also, just because you're going Culture, don't ignore science - open Rationalism and get to the business end of the tech tree - Refrigeration for Hotels, Radar for Airports and of course The Internet for the tourism boost - as fast as you can.

Try to ally Cultural city-states (or at least prevent culturemonger AIs from snapping them up).

Also, when the World Congress becomes active, don't neglect the World's Fair and International Games if they get proposed/passed. They are quite easy to win and will net you free Social Policies, Golden Age points and shedloads of culture/tourism. You can generate in excess of 700 tourism by the end of the game, at which point it should only take a few Musicians on concert tours to help push you over the finish line.
 
Did you pay attention to the cultural victory screen? Because that should've given you a clue that Washington is about to win... and you should've been able to see it from a mile away
 
Also, if possible, try to focus all of your bonuses into a single city (i.e capital). if you have a holy city there, try to pass World Religion.
 
Most has been said already, but
1. Tradition, Aesthetics, Exploration ...unless you were using Honor to take other people's great works, in which case it should be Tradition , Honor, Aesthetics

2. Theming Bonuses are important

3. Getting % Bonuses with civs (have them give you open borders, trade routes, sharing religion etc. is important)

4. Hotels, Airports, etc. are helped by 2 things
-Wonder Culture.. build lots of World Wonders and see if you can get the World Congress proposal Heritage sites passed (increases wonder culture)
-Tile culture.. landmarks that you can work with a Hotel/Airport city are better that Artifacts in a museum, and religious pantheons that give tile culture are useful

5. Cultural Victory is competitive... given your current setup..(full Honor) build up an Army and get the diplomatic situation good so you can work at conquering Washington (take all his big Wonder/Work filled cities)... sometimes a Culture Victory will require a later game war to take out the other major cultural players
So that you can get more tourism by stealing their wonders/works.. good against everyone, and also so that you can cut down the culture players culture enough to get by thier cultural defense
 
You went Freedom, did you get New Deal to go with your Landmarks? They can go up to 15 culture per tile which translates to 30 base tourism with Hotel, Airport, and the national wonder.
 
Why did you go for Honor? That was wasted culture that could have been used on the Aesthetics tree.
 
Thank you for the responses, all. A few answers (and more questions):

1. I went full honor because I thought I needed full policy trees for a cultural victory, though that no longer appears to be the case. I started honor initially because dead barbs = quick culture early on, and also garrisons give culture later. Lastly, I needed the Great General early on for a strategically critical island situated in a small bay between my capital and Babylon.

2. I haven't the slightest idea on how to propose issues in World Congress. I never manage to found it, and they never asked me to pose any resolutions. Nor do I win the head seat.

3. I have no idea how theming bonuses work, either, not for lack of googling it. There just doesn't seem to be a good explanation of it anywhere.

4. When I dig up an artifact and it gives me the option for it to be My Civ or some other Civ, if I choose the other civ, does that mean I do not get the artifact? Or does it add to this "theming" thing I know nothing about.

5. I'll be honest... I don't even know how to swap artifacts, or get them to line up just right for theming bonuses.

6. Frankly, I'm kind of ashamed my game turned out the way it did... I was Morocco, started in the Desert, with 3 gold resources and an incense, got Petra (which together is Kasbahs is OMGPowerful), and even a religion (with idols as the pantheon). I probably could have won any other victory type with that kind of setup in my capital, but pursued Tourism because I hadn't tried it yet. Apparently I reeeeeallly fail at knowing anything about Tourism wins.
 
Winning by culture can be hard, it depends on what your opponents do and who they are. I finally accomplished it and I was Polynesia and I didn't use Aethetics. I was even an Autocracy.

Perversely one thing that makes it easier to win culturally is if some of your rivals are killed off. You don't necessarily have to destroy them yourself, but to domainate all the cultures it helps if there are less cultures.

I am a big fan of Exploration, I actually like it better than Aesthetic, but it depends on the map. On my map, as Polynesia, Exploration was a must.

Culture is still important as it earns you social policies and helps you defend your empire against a cultural victory but I think sending your musicians on tour is a very valid tactic. Art and Writing and Artifects and the odd early musician produce great works, but if there is a big culture civ you have to start sending in the musicians.

I'm not the hugest fan of piety, but I always found a religion and I always use my influence late in the game to make it the world relgion this helps with tourism. The hermitage belief isn't as useful. I like opening Tradition. I like using Engineers to build wonders. Broadway is worth sticking 3 musicians in, but it can be hard to get three in the same era which brings us back to Piety. The reformation belief where you can buy any Great Person with faith is pretty damn awesome.

In my current game I have gotten over 10,000 faith banked up, I then bought 3 or 4 Great Musicians at once and sent them all to Russia.

As Polynesia you need to late in the game, re sculpt your coast line to be full of Maoi. France is very good for Culture but for Tourism supposedly Brazil is the best.

Autocracy is obviously not the best ideology for a cultural victory, but I had to fight off Greece and Carthage and Venice in order to earn my peaceful victory. Choose the ideology that makes you friends with your most important trading partner.

You need to learn how the tabs work on the cultural screen, the one that looks like a pen/musical note/paint brush. It has four tabs, including the swap great works tab. You can also conqueror and capture great works as well as wonders. In the Brave New World, cultural victory is not necessarily peaceful. Dipomatic or Science can be peaceful, but to force your culture down the throats of your rivals can get messy.

Although I failed to win Culturally as Celts and France, look at some screen shots I posted. I was producing several hundred tourism just from my capital(s), but it still wasn't enough, hence the kill off rivals or relentlessly send musicians on tours suggestion. In the screen shot Edinburgh is doing better than Paris and I earned full double themeing bonus in Paris. It isn't all about art collecting, who your friends are, ie which ideologies they adopt matters. Lots of people converted to Autocracy which then made them easier to dominate culturally. Freedom or Order are better for cultural victory in theory, but sometimes you just have to force people to like you. ;-)
 
Autocracy is obviously not the best ideology for a cultural victory, but I had to fight off Greece and Carthage and Venice in order to earn my peaceful victory. Choose the ideology that makes you friends with your most important trading partner.

You need to learn how the tabs work on the cultural screen, the one that looks like a pen/musical note/paint brush. It has four tabs, including the swap great works tab. You can also conqueror and capture great works as well as wonders. In the Brave New World, cultural victory is not necessarily peaceful. Dipomatic or Science can be peaceful, but to force your culture down the throats of your rivals can get messy.

Autocracy has loads of happiness. It can be good for culture. But its kind of a negative approach; like saying our people are the best race of people. It also has the option of using the military to extinguish the other cultures...
 
Why did you go Honor and then Freedom? It seems like you should have went Autocracy and killed Washington my favorite culture games use Autocracy and Cult of Personality. I Influence Some Civilizations and totally kill off others

Also, when the World Congress becomes active, don't neglect the World's Fair and International Games if they get proposed/passed. They are quite easy to win and will net you free Social Policies,
On diety no way, on immortal probably if you have alot of hammers. On Diety and Immortal I usually aim for second place. Go kill the winner and steal his culture.

Thank you for the responses, all. A few answers (and more questions):

1. I went full honor because I thought I needed full policy trees for a cultural victory, though that no longer appears to be the case. I started honor initially because dead barbs = quick culture early on, and also garrisons give culture later. Lastly, I needed the Great General early on for a strategically critical island situated in a small bay between my capital and Babylon.

2. I haven't the slightest idea on how to propose issues in World Congress. I never manage to found it, and they never asked me to pose any resolutions. Nor do I win the head seat.

3. I have no idea how theming bonuses work, either, not for lack of googling it. There just doesn't seem to be a good explanation of it anywhere.

4. When I dig up an artifact and it gives me the option for it to be My Civ or some other Civ, if I choose the other civ, does that mean I do not get the artifact? Or does it add to this "theming" thing I know nothing about.

5. I'll be honest... I don't even know how to swap artifacts, or get them to line up just right for theming bonuses.

6. Frankly, I'm kind of ashamed my game turned out the way it did... I was Morocco, started in the Desert, with 3 gold resources and an incense, got Petra (which together is Kasbahs is OMGPowerful), and even a religion (with idols as the pantheon). I probably could have won any other victory type with that kind of setup in my capital, but pursued Tourism because I hadn't tried it yet. Apparently I reeeeeallly fail at knowing anything about Tourism wins.

1. I did an Honor/Aesthetics/Rationalism/Autocracy CV with Germany but honestly I feel like Tradition/Left side of Honor/Aesthetics/Right SIde of Rationalism/Autocracy would have been better. Don't finish all the tree unless you want the finisher and three points in Honor on the right side is alot to get gold for kills.

2. Have the 1st or second most delegates and you can propose, this is important because you can pass different things that benefit Culture Victories

3. Scroll over the tooltip in the "my culture" screen it will tell you what you need, trade your works for others to achieve theming bonuses.

4. It gives you the artifact but gives you the option of declaring whos it from Meuseums have a themeing bonus for different eras and different civs so find out what you need before they are excavated.
 
Theming bonuses, archaeology, hotels, etc. Multipliers especially. Get open borders, shared Ideologies, Maybe Order for the total potential multiplier of 68%, shared religion, is ideal, trade partners, all good to have. Diplomats for Civs with foreign ideologies.
 
Thank you for the responses, all. A few answers (and more questions):

1. I went full honor because I thought I needed full policy trees for a cultural victory, though that no longer appears to be the case. I started honor initially because dead barbs = quick culture early on, and also garrisons give culture later. Lastly, I needed the Great General early on for a strategically critical island situated in a small bay between my capital and Babylon.

2. I haven't the slightest idea on how to propose issues in World Congress. I never manage to found it, and they never asked me to pose any resolutions. Nor do I win the head seat.

3. I have no idea how theming bonuses work, either, not for lack of googling it. There just doesn't seem to be a good explanation of it anywhere.

4. When I dig up an artifact and it gives me the option for it to be My Civ or some other Civ, if I choose the other civ, does that mean I do not get the artifact? Or does it add to this "theming" thing I know nothing about.

5. I'll be honest... I don't even know how to swap artifacts, or get them to line up just right for theming bonuses.

6. Frankly, I'm kind of ashamed my game turned out the way it did... I was Morocco, started in the Desert, with 3 gold resources and an incense, got Petra (which together is Kasbahs is OMGPowerful), and even a religion (with idols as the pantheon). I probably could have won any other victory type with that kind of setup in my capital, but pursued Tourism because I hadn't tried it yet. Apparently I reeeeeallly fail at knowing anything about Tourism wins.

You have a lot to learn, grasshopper.

1. NEVER go full honor.
The only okay policy is the opener - which you were right in taking perhaps - but NEVER go into it more unless you are on a Pangaea map and you are going to take everyone out. The culture bonus from garrisions don't even help with tourism.

2. How does the World Congress work?
The World Congress is established when a civ is the first to both 1) meet every major civilization in the game and 2) research Printing Press. Doing so will make them the host and give them one additional delegate to vote on issues with. The person with the next most delegates may also propose resolutions. If there is a tie for second, turn order is taken into account. (So if you are player 1 as always in single player and you are tied in second place then you will be able to propose resolutions.)

3. How does theming work?
Every Wonder or building with 2 or more Great Work slots has the opportunity for a theming bonus. The easiest way to see the theming bonuses is to hover over the +0 next to the slots, and it will tell you what you need to put in those slots to gain the full theming bonus. For museums and most Great Artist wonders the theming bonus is making sure the pieces are from the same civilization and same era, but some will require you to trade with other civilizations.

4. How do I swap Great Works?
Go to the Culture Overview screen, and there are multiple tabs present. The default one is the "Your culture" screen, which allows you to move great works around within your empire, just click on the Great Work and it will show you which spots you can reassign it to. To trade with other civilizations, go to the "Swap Great Works" tab, and you'll see a bunch of rows, with different civilizations for rows and different kinds of Great works for columns. Go to the row for your civilization and select one of your great works that you would be willing to trade. Then, click on another Great work from another civilization (make sure it's the same type) and the option will appear on the bottom of the screen to swap.

5. Artifacts.
If you are digging within your own territory it is often best to create a landmark, but if you have a lot of cities with museums then creating artifacts would be understandable. The different options for different civilization origins does not effect who the artifact goes to - as long as you have space in your museums you can always take artifacts from foreign lands. Depending on what theming bonuses you have you may want to chose different civilization origins for your artifacts.

6. How to win a culture victory:
Get as many open borders as you can, also try to get the same religion and ideology as other civilizations to improve your tourism output against that civilization. You can see how your influence, as well as other civilizations influence, is doing if you look at the "Influence" tab, I think it's called, it's the last tab. Wait a bit longer to build your Musicians Guild, then use Great Musicians to tour foreign lands to convert the culturally stubborn civilizations. Prioritize science and culture technologies to unlock new culture Wonders and buildings. Propose or vote for resolutions in the World Congress that will boost your tourism (international games if you have the production, extra culture from wonders if you have a lot of wonders, or more culture from landmarks.) Remember that improvements that generate a culture yield will be converted to tourism once you get Hotels and Airports.
Hope this helps!
 
Tourism multiplies during the late game. Your 100 culture now might become 200 with hotels/airports, 300 with national visitors center, 600 with the Internet, and 1200 if you win international game (just an example, actual numbers may vary). These numbers get multiplied AGAIN with open borders, trade routes, etc. Don't give up!

You might need to kill Washington first, though
 
Tourism multiplies during the late game. Your 100 culture now might become 200 with hotels/airports, 300 with national visitors center, 600 with the Internet, and 1200 if win international game (just an example, actual numbers may vary). These numbers get multiplied AGAIN with open borders, trade routes, etc. Don't give up!

You might need to kill Washington first, though

Or get the other guy to do it for him.
 
Great advice and replies, y'all. Thank you so much! Now to put it to good use...
 
On diety no way, on immortal probably if you have alot of hammers. On Diety and Immortal I usually aim for second place. Go kill the winner and steal his culture.

I'm guessing the OP isn't playing on Immortal or Deity, though. I can always win them with minimal effort on King so I'm sure it's possible on Emperor as well.
 
It was mentioned before but never really explained.

The multiplier that you can get can really up your tourism against a particular civ. Try and stack them as much as possible.

Having a trade route will give you an extra 25% tourism against a particular civ.
You can get another 25% if you have the same religion in the majority of both your cities.
The next multiplier comes from using one of your spies as a diplomat in their capitol and you can get even more if you share an ideology. This works the other way around aswell so if you have different ideologies you will get a negative multiplier.
The last tip is open borders. A good and easy tip is to buy open borders from the other civ without giving up your own. If you give up your own you will give the others the same 25% as you get, you want to avoid this. The price is usually the same as the AI pays you. Up to 50 gold or 1 gpt. It's not that bad tbh. You should be making so much gold that the 5-10 gpt you pay to have open borders with everyone (depending on the number of players ofc) really wont make a difference.
 
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