Demand to AI

C

Chicoutimi

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 7, 2015
Messages
42
sometimes AI asks you to help them out through the "demand" diplomacy thing, you can fullfill their request to get a diplomatic boost with them for a while
is it possible for the player to demand something to AI? I tried it when allied, even 1 gold they act as if i offended them, and now i tried it with like military units all over their borders and they were frigthen by me; still they dont want to give me 1 gold :(


seems like this button is just to get them mad at you
 
I believe you need 10 times their military strength to have a demand be successful. Furthermore it must be "reasonable". I think the developers meant it for demands to make peace with CS but since it uses the trade screen you can try and demand anything. Would be interesting to learn if anyone has manged to demand a city.
 
It's a bit more complicated, a lot of factors go into whether or not the AI will give into a demand. First of all, after a demand is made, the AI will never give into any demands from the same player for a number of turns (random number between 20-30 by default), even if the initial demand was too much. AIs with whose opinion of the player is "Unforgivable" or whose approach is "Hostile" will never give in (opinion is the secret number of how much the AI likes the player, approach is the public approach the AI is taking towards the player). If the AI's military might is roughly greater than 85% of the player's military might, they will never give in. If the closest distance between one of the AI's cities and one of the player's cities is deemed to be "far" and the player does not appear to be posturing aggressively around the AI (they don't have a lot of units within "homefront" range of the AI's cities who are not also in "homefront" range of a city the player is at war with), the AI will never give in. If the AI has a Boldness value of 10 or greater, they will never give in.

Otherwise, the AI rolls a dice to determine whether they will give in to a demand. The base chance of them giving in is 100% - (boldness) * 10%. If they have the afraid approach towards the player, the chance increases by +50%, otherwise the chance increases based on the ratio of the player's military strength to the AI's: -10% for 0.85 to 1.14, +10% for 1.15 to 1.65, +20% for 1.65 to 2.49, and +35% for 2.50 and above.

If the random roll's result means that the AI gives in, it will still have a maximum value that it is willing to give up. This value is based on the ratio of the player's military strength to the AI's: 50 for 0.85 to 1.14, 120 for 1.15 to 1.65, and 200 for 1.65 and above. The value of flat gold is the highest between (gold amount) and (gold amount) * 10 / (AI's gold per turn), so 1 gold = 1 point if the AI has more than 9 GPT or less than 1 GPT, but 1 gold = 10 points if the AI has 1 GPT. The value of GPT is a constant (gold amount)*(turns)*4/5. The value of resources is 200 for luxuries and 40*(amount) for strategic resources. The value of Open Borders is 50. Any other item basically has a value of infinity for the purposes of giving into demands.
 
Iv'e only demanded successfully once, open borders to Cathy.
 
I don't think that's a "demand" when the AI's come begging for half your treasury or all your coal or your last copy of a luxury resource. I think it's just a trade. Try going to the trade screen and offer 1 GPT on their side and nothing on yours and see what happens. (they'll laugh at you, but no diplomatic hit)
 
Once while playing the Zulus, I marched past Germany down a peninsula to wipe out Carthage. On the way home, one of Germany's cities expanded its border cutting off my path (I didn't have embarkation yet). I tried to trade Open Borders, but he refused. So I demanded Open Borders from him instead and he said, "If it's the only way to keep the peace." Brilliant diplomacy Bismarck! You could have had an even Open Borders exchange, but you refused and in the end wound up giving Open Borders away for nothing.
 
The only time it worked was on a settler game I once lit up to get an achievement
 
shaglio said:
Once while playing the Zulus, I marched past Germany down a peninsula to wipe out Carthage. On the way home, one of Germany's cities expanded its border cutting off my path (I didn't have embarkation yet). I tried to trade Open Borders, but he refused. So I demanded Open Borders from him instead and he said, "If it's the only way to keep the peace." Brilliant diplomacy Bismarck! You could have had an even Open Borders exchange, but you refused and in the end wound up giving Open Borders away for nothing.
Click to expand...
I didn't know one-sided Open Borders was possible
 
Sfinks said:
I didn't know one-sided Open Borders was possible
Click to expand...

I didn't either until I did it. I never in a million years expected it to work, but I was the imposing Zulus after all.
 
I remember in Civ IV (and I think III) you could directly ask the AI for a loan, and sometimes they would give it to you. Would be nice if that feature existed in Civ V, although it should be unnecessary.
 
Biologist said:
I remember in Civ IV (and I think III) you could directly ask the AI for a loan, and sometimes they would give it to you. Would be nice if that feature existed in Civ V, although it should be unnecessary.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure you can effectively ask for a loan by offering GPT for flat gold from a Civ you have a declaration of friendship with...
 
Liegence said:
I'm pretty sure you can effectively ask for a loan by offering GPT for flat gold from a Civ you have a declaration of friendship with...
Click to expand...

... but you can't ask them to just give you some gold because you need it and you're friendly. In Civ4 (and maybe Civ3, I cannot remember), asking for something in return for nothing was only considered tribute if you were in poor relations with the AI leader, otherwise it would be considered asking for a gift.
 
Handsome_Champ said:
You can sell it for like 8 gpt I think. At least 6.
Click to expand...

Well, if you read my post, I wasn't looking to sell my Open Borders. I was looking to obtains his Open Borders to get my troops back home, and he refused to make me an offer so I had to bully him.
 
shaglio said:
Once while playing the Zulus, I marched past Germany down a peninsula to wipe out Carthage. On the way home, one of Germany's cities expanded its border cutting off my path (I didn't have embarkation yet). I tried to trade Open Borders, but he refused. So I demanded Open Borders from him instead and he said, "If it's the only way to keep the peace." Brilliant diplomacy Bismarck! You could have had an even Open Borders exchange, but you refused and in the end wound up giving Open Borders away for nothing.
Click to expand...

That`s quite cool. And not unrealistic. He was needlessly stubborn, as some leaders are and paid the price for it. However, he was smart enough to avoid war over such a small thing.

I don`t think i`ve demaned anything successfully from the AI, but I don`t use it very much because it never worked.
 
phillipwyllie said:
I believe you need 10 times their military strength to have a demand be successful. Furthermore it must be "reasonable". I think the developers meant it for demands to make peace with CS but since it uses the trade screen you can try and demand anything. Would be interesting to learn if anyone has manged to demand a city.
Click to expand...

Never got a city through demand but usually after taking 1 or 2 they offer city on their own :)
 
After being informed by Cromagnus (a very good player, if you don't know him) that Demanding can be really powerful, I've started doing it a lot more. Circa T130ish if you've wiped out the other big armies and are facing down the remaining AI, you can get a lot out of them. Cromagnus says he's had cities from the AI. I've had decent GPT, stuff like that. You have to be an unrepentant bully and have by far the biggest army.
 
consentient said:
After being informed by Cromagnus (a very good player, if you don't know him) that Demanding can be really powerful, I've started doing it a lot more. Circa T130ish if you've wiped out the other big armies and are facing down the remaining AI, you can get a lot out of them. Cromagnus says he's had cities from the AI. I've had decent GPT, stuff like that. You have to be an unrepentant bully and have by far the biggest army.
Click to expand...

Hmm, we may be confusing two different things here. There are basically two ways you can "demand" from the AI: either as a demand when you two are at peace, or as a demand for a peace treaty. These two go through completely separate types of logic, with certain items being valued higher or lower in one case than in the other (eg. Open Borders valued higher in peacetime demand, GPT valued higher in demand for a peace treaty). For peacetime demands though, the AI will never be willing to give up any cities.

Remember, this is how peacetime demand logic works:
Delnar_Ersike said:
It's a bit more complicated, a lot of factors go into whether or not the AI will give into a demand. First of all, after a demand is made, the AI will never give into any demands from the same player for a number of turns (random number between 20-30 by default), even if the initial demand was too much. AIs with whose opinion of the player is "Unforgivable" or whose approach is "Hostile" will never give in (opinion is the secret number of how much the AI likes the player, approach is the public approach the AI is taking towards the player). If the AI's military might is roughly greater than 85% of the player's military might, they will never give in. If the closest distance between one of the AI's cities and one of the player's cities is deemed to be "far" and the player does not appear to be posturing aggressively around the AI (they don't have a lot of units within "homefront" range of the AI's cities who are not also in "homefront" range of a city the player is at war with), the AI will never give in. If the AI has a Boldness value of 10 or greater, they will never give in.

Otherwise, the AI rolls a dice to determine whether they will give in to a demand. The base chance of them giving in is 100% - (boldness) * 10%. If they have the afraid approach towards the player, the chance increases by +50%, otherwise the chance increases based on the ratio of the player's military strength to the AI's: -10% for 0.85 to 1.14, +10% for 1.15 to 1.65, +20% for 1.65 to 2.49, and +35% for 2.50 and above.

If the random roll's result means that the AI gives in, it will still have a maximum value that it is willing to give up. This value is based on the ratio of the player's military strength to the AI's: 50 for 0.85 to 1.14, 120 for 1.15 to 1.65, and 200 for 1.65 and above. The value of flat gold is the highest between (gold amount) and (gold amount) * 10 / (AI's gold per turn), so 1 gold = 1 point if the AI has more than 9 GPT or less than 1 GPT, but 1 gold = 10 points if the AI has 1 GPT. The value of GPT is a constant (gold amount)*(turns)*4/5. The value of resources is 200 for luxuries and 40*(amount) for strategic resources. The value of Open Borders is 50. Any other item basically has a value of infinity for the purposes of giving into demands.
Click to expand...
 
Well, if you read my post, I wasn't looking to sell my Open Borders. I was looking to obtains his Open Borders to get my troops back home, and he refused to make me an offer so I had to bully him.
Click to expand...

Well depending on your objective the transaction can work both ways.

I remember on MadDjinn's India LP he consistantly paid for AI open borders to spread his religion and culture faster / efficiently.
 
Well in the scenarios Cromagnus described, on Continents maps he would clear his continent, spam units, and demand things from the AIs on the other continent, including cities. I am sure having to DoW them first doesn't really change things that much in this case! :p
 
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