Persia: Aesthetics or Patronage?

I'm torn on these 2. I want Aesthetics for Persia. I plan on building the Oracle so I'll have a few extra policies for my game. I burn all the great artists.

Aesthetics is only for BNW culture victory. Patronage is always helpful for any games. Just the Patronage Opener and Consulates is the minimum to help any game.

Aesthetics is almost a requirement for cultural victory.

Patronage is better for Diplomatic, but also assists for war.

I'd recommend Patronage. Just super Sayin'

This isn't actually dependent upon Persia, but is instead victory condition dependent.

If going for Diplomatic Victory, then following completion of your first tree (either Tradition or Liberty) then dip into Consulates while waiting to be allowed into Rationalism.

If going for Cultural Victory, the fillers after the first tree should be in Aesthetics, but you'll likely want to delay completing Aesthetics until Rationalism.

Going for Science Victory, the fillers after completing the first tree while waiting to be allowed into Rationalism don't matter as much, between these two, Consulates is better, but there are games in which other fillers are better.

I migh be wrong, but I see no use in opening Esthetic without intention to finnish it at some point and aim for cultural victory.

ON the other end Patronage is usefull in many ways and bcame an almost automatic after Trad... Sometimes I will go for left side of Piety, but most efficient seems to be Patronage for me.

I think you guys might be overthinking this one. Aesthetics will give you more great artists. You're burning the great artists for the longer Persian golden ages, so I'd go Aesthetics. Doesn't matter if it's for cultural victory or not.

Dr. D said:

I think you guys might be overthinking this one. Aesthetics will give you more great artists. You're burning the great artists for the longer Persian golden ages, so I'd go Aesthetics. Doesn't matter if it's for cultural victory or not.

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That is what I am thinking, but Patronage is still better if not a culture victory. I don't know if Persia's golden ages make up the gold saved from city states.

fallout3dc said:

That is what I am thinking, but Patronage is still better if not a culture victory. I don't know if Persia's golden ages make up the gold saved from city states.

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In my own games that's trivial to make up since I don't spend money to bribe city states. Instead I fulfill their quests to get influence for free and use spies for the ones I really want.

For Persia, I might lean towards aesthetics - it's going to get you possibly 3-4 extra golden ages. The opener will boost your great artist rate by 25%, which could be an extra or even two. Plus flourishing of the arts has a golden age, and artistic genius gives you a free great artists (golden age!) - though you have to push through two mediocre policies to get those.

That depends on the resources you want so if you want more science then go for patronage. If you want more culture then go for aesthetics.
Also, some city states give more of each different resource if you're their ally while aesthetics gives you more culture for more social policies that also give different resources that you need.

I'd take the Aesthetics opener even when going Domination for the increased Artist generation.

As with others, this is mostly a civ-neutral choice after finishing Tradition and waiting for Rationalism. I don't bother opening Aesthetics unless I can get the half-price culture buildings. If it will be just one policy, I would rather open Patronage or even Exploration.

As Persia I am sure to always open Aesthetics for that extra artist generation. Get those golden ages rolling. I would not go into Aesthetics any further than that though. Patronage is far more useful unless you're going for a culture vic.

CraigMak said:

As Persia I am sure to always open Aesthetics for that extra artist generation. Get those golden ages rolling. I would not go into Aesthetics any further than that though. Patronage is far more useful unless you're going for a culture vic.

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yea and patronage is more useful for a diplomatic victory.

Well you have to remember the opener alone is not likely to give you more than 1 extra great artist (and it takes a long time to reach that point) and if you grab both Chichen Itza and the TajMahal that may not even be required to be in a permanent golden age.

But you'll get faster great writers too. I would probably pick Patronage myself, keeping city states at ally status is more important than slightly faster GW GA in my opinion. Or commerce.

Edit: After some quick maths and assuming National epic + garden at turn 1(first turn your guild provides GPP), Pisa at turn 50, Ideology at turn 75.
With aesthetics the pop times are
8 22 43 69 98 131 170 214 264
Without
9 26 51 79 110 147 191 241 297

As you can see the opener never truly gives you an extra in the sense that some turns later you'll catch up without the opener (it takes 850 turns for the opener to be permanently at +1). It accelerates GA generation giving them to you faster. But since your game doesn't end that long you're still likely to generate one more very late in the game while without the opener your last GA (to catch up) would generate after you win.

The impact of the opener is also greater the less bonus you already have, like no Pisa or no Garden.