OCC deity culture

poxpower

Prince
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I just tried with Venice on Continent standard/standard map with legendary start ( 4 whales)
Got absolutely wrecked lol.

I'd be curious to know if anyone has tried this.
I'll try with Babylon or Brazil next.

So far:
Venice - Turn 300
France - Turn 253
 
Yeah its possible to win cultural victory with one city chalenge. The key is getting your culture high enough. So use patronage and aesthetics. get allies with lots of maritime and culture CS. Find a way to pass world religion includig bribery. keep DoF with as many as poss. build infantry to protect yourself after ideology. keep the trade routes going and save up faith for 2 or 3 (4 is even better) musicians and dont sent them on tour until your tourism is over 1000.


As always it is best with Poland or Korea
 
Ok tried again, got it turn 300 with ice locked Venice ( sadness ). So good, no cargo ships but half my tiles taken up by water anyway! Yay. I could have won world leader vote twice before winning with culture but whatever :p It's worth finishing 30 turns slower.

I did get to build hanging gardens, petra ( for 4 tiles...) and forbidden palace ( to pass early world religion, but that doesn't help too much, probably better to build something else than the palace ).

Patronage is definitely mandatory for this... Yeah.

Was generating 384 tourism by the end with every single tourism wonder ( except parthenon), there's no way you could be making 1000. You can't win International Games against the AI with 10 cities. So with Brazil probably the best you could do is like 800. But if you did somehow win international games then yeah.. that's be some good musicians...

Time to try with a different civ and maybe not a crappy start :D
 
France's bonuses to tourism are very minmal. Poland, Korea, Arabia, Bablyon and Inca are all better for cultured victorys.
 
I tried two games, seemed bad without uffizi or louvre, which you get at random, but maybe just theming hermitage / sistine and... one.. museum.... is enough?

Seems bad though.

If you can't get Uffizi, theme the Hermitage (I find Uffizi pretty useless anyway frankly). I have the feeling you won't get enough Artists to theme everything anyway, especially if you get the Louvre. You also need to theme Oxford (generally doable from the very turn you complete it) and Globe Theater if you can get it.

Overall, it seems to me that the theming bonus bonus UA is only powerful if you can theme very early to give you a heads up. It becomes weaker and weaker in the late game (you get a cool boost when you finish Aesthetics though). After this you have to rely on Châteaux, landmarks and hotels I think.

But to be honest I have never tried OCC Culture with France, I don't know if you can reliably get a good enough tech rate to hit Acoustics early enough, make Sistine and then get to the Internet in time. You probably have to go to Scholasticism early I guess (maybe even before Rationalism and skip Consulates ?).
 
France's bonuses to tourism are very minmal.

I don't agree with this.

Although France's UA is not great (but still useful), two cheateaux = one landmark and it's really good.

To not only talk without any proofs I'm gonna play one France OCC game (means very straightforward game).

If anyone is interested in playing with me just let me know and I'll post starting save.
 
I don't agree with this.

Although France's UA is not great (but still useful), two cheateaux = one landmark and it's really good.

To not only talk without any proofs I'm gonna play one France OCC game (means very straightforward game).

If anyone is interested in playing with me just let me know and I'll post starting save.

I'm in !
 
Uffizi isn't great and on Deity you'll never get it anyway. I take Sistine, that one you always get for some reason and it's easy to theme early. Nice +4 as France. I also build the Oxford as soon as I can so tech into Astronomy. I did notice though that getting Oxford that early isn't that good because you can't theme it until 10-15 turns later because none of the AI have great works that aren't Medieval era :p

Louvre is really what you want with France, +16 tourism and quite easy to theme. But the AI almost always techs to archaeology and rushes Louvre / Archaologists. Considering saving Oxford for that and definitely you need to GE Louvre because you need that time to make fast Archaologists to steal as many sites as possible. Very soon they will all be gone and you'll see all the AIs with 3-4 archaeologists just roaming around their cities like idiots lol.

If anyone is interested in playing with me just let me know and I'll post starting save.

yay

My second game:
-Beaten to uffizi by 5 turns
-Beaten to louvre by 2 turns
-Beaten to Eiffel Tower by 1 turn ( after burning GE )
-Order ideology taken turn 151 ( wtf )

THIS JUST ISN'T MY GAME. Brazil was in there too both as culture runaway and top civ somehow. Also got a tundra start u_u

There's two kinds of game you can roll: Desert Petra, or NOT desert petra. I think France needs the petra start a lot more than any other culture civ because you rely heavily on building wonders and tons of archaologists, that's basically the only advantage you get and on Deity you just can't compete with the AI for wonders without some amazing start or petra. It also get a religion with which you can get that +5 tourism for Hermitage and you get to build Grand Temple, which allows you to then enhance your religion and maybe get a cathedral even...

Really two different difficulty levels. Or you can even roll a non-observatory start... then I dunno if you can do anything with that ...
 
... because you rely heavily on building wonders and tons of archaologists...
Or you can even roll a non-observatory start... then I dunno if you can do anything with that ...

Yes, I thought about non-observatory start as I've made few OCC cultural victories, but all with mountain.

Not sure why you want to build tons of archaeologist though, as you will have only 4 slots for artifacts (2 museum, 2 Louvre).
 
Yes, I thought about non-observatory start as I've made few OCC cultural victories, but all with mountain.

Not sure why you want to build tons of archaeologist though, as you will have only 4 slots for artifacts (2 museum, 2 Louvre).

It depends what buildings you get.
Sistine is +2, uffizi is +2 ( since it gives a free one ) and a cathedral is +1.
So depending on the game you get you would have to make more archaeologists to just fill those.
Is also depends how many landmarks you have. So in a game you could be building anywhere from 2 to 10-11 archaologists...
 
For OCC, I think the archaeologists can help fill the gaps and you can safely use most or all of the artists for GA. For example, the Uffizi if I ever build it won't be themed and will just be 3 artifacts. The theming bonuses is really only good for French game. On deity, getting those golden ages help if you have some competition on the wonders. For example building LToP, GE for Globe which is usually iffy on deity if LtoP is in competition.
 
For OCC, I think the archaeologists can help fill the gaps and you can safely use most or all of the artists for GA. For example, the Uffizi if I ever build it won't be themed and will just be 3 artifacts. The theming bonuses is really only good for French game. On deity, getting those golden ages help if you have some competition on the wonders. For example building LToP, GE for Globe which is usually iffy on deity if LtoP is in competition.

I'd probably at least keep 2 for louvre, but you're right, early GA aren't really useful. You'd get like 1 for 100 turns and another one for say 75 turns before you put them into your Louvre and since that all happens before all the big tourism modifiers you're really losing out on only like 300-400 tourism which is around one turn of tourism in the endgame and like 5% of your GM pops... So..yeah you might be right.
 
OCC culture victory should be fairly doable, if you go for quick non SS CV you find that all of your tourism comes from your capital anyway.

Painful part would be if the culture runaway is on the other side of the map; with OCC you cant sell city and GM bomb.
 
OCC culture victory should be fairly doable, if you go for quick non SS CV you find that all of your tourism comes from your capital anyway.

Painful part would be if the culture runaway is on the other side of the map; with OCC you cant sell city and GM bomb.

I usually don't set the game to OCC so I do have the option to do that.
Though so far the one game I won was Venice on turn 300.

I also start with "Legendary Start" and I reroll a couple times until I don't start on a desert river with 4 desert incense...
 
It depends what buildings you get.
Sistine is +2, uffizi is +2 ( since it gives a free one ) and a cathedral is +1.
So depending on the game you get you would have to make more archaeologists to just fill those.

I was talking obviously about theming bonuses for artifacts and only museums and Louvre are appropriate for that.

For OCC, I think the archaeologists can help fill the gaps and you can safely use most or all of the artists for GA. For example, the Uffizi if I ever build it won't be themed and will just be 3 artifacts. The theming bonuses is really only good for French game.

I don't agree with that, but we can compare our strategies by playing the same game ;)

I'd probably at least keep 2 for louvre, but you're right, early GA aren't really useful. You'd get like 1 for 100 turns and another one for say 75 turns before you put them into your Louvre and since that all happens before all the big tourism modifiers you're really losing out on only like 300-400 tourism which is around one turn of tourism in the endgame and like 5% of your GM pops...

You start influence other civs if you have any tourism and you can't compare eg. 100 turism on turn 100 with 100 turism on turn 300

I also start with "Legendary Start" and I reroll a couple times until I don't start on a desert river with 4 desert incense...

So, it's time to win real OCC cultural victory ;)
 
I was talking obviously about theming bonuses for artifacts and only museums and Louvre are appropriate for that.

Just saying you can get more buildings with more slots for that just +2 tourism for each extra artifact. You can't get enough artists to theme all the possible buildings but you can potentially at least fill them with artifacts.

As for the GA thing, I dunno. They're just +2 tourism when you get the first one and you have no modifiers to that until way later so maybe it's better to pop the first 2-3 for golden age, who knows. In the end I doubt it makes much of a difference.
 
Ok here's a pretty dumb petra France game, turn 253 victory. I didn't do this on purpose I just rolled this start after coming back from biking tonight haha. Sure enough I got desert faith and Petra.

I had ridiculous amounts of faith and in the end didn't get to use my last 2 great musicians. The way the game works out, after you get internet and National Visitor Center, it's over very fast, usually within 40 turns naturally and it only takes one or two great musicians to finish the job.

So if you have tons of faith, it's probably good to plan on buying just one musician, timing a natural one right after you get the two good techs, and then using the faith to get a great scientist and a great engineer. I engineered Louvre to get faster archaologists and the AI was still already roaming around with theirs.

I gifted a city to the AI to speed it up as well. He razed my city instantly lol I should have built a bunch of railroads to that city so I could spam him all in the same turn but I am dumb so I didn't do that. Next time. This shaves off about 30 turns so I'd definitely always allow that rule because it's just RNG otherwise.

I'm sure I could have easily won this around turn 245 with this start, probably faster.

France's theming bonus in the end let me generate around 200 tourism over what I was doing with Venice. Basically 50% more, so it's definitely very relevant and strong.

Spoiler :


Here's the save if anyone wants it: ( I have CIV 5 complete from Steam so you might need a bunch of those DLCs )
 

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How did you gift a city while playing OCC? Perhaps you didn't tick the OCC box in Advanced Startup, but just played as a self-imposed OCC style?
 
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