Brazil is weak early game

All 4 games I've played with Brazil, I cannot seem to get enough productivity to build any wonder. I usually go liberty, and rack up stonehendge and the pyramids asap. I can't do that with Brazil.

Brazil's start bias usually sticks you in the jungle, and I want to save most of those jungles for Brazilwood camps. But I can't even get enough production to really even build garrison units. It literally takes way too long to build anything until the population gets high enough which by then, is too late. I'm either far behind on every victory front or being invaded with no chance of survival. Not even enough productivity to be able to put that tourism bonus to use.

How do you guys handle them early game? Is it just me?

interesting... I think I'll play them next. Haven't tried them out yet

You found the flaw: Not enough hammer.

So simply accept that like an alcoholic a drink is bad for you, so is saving jungle tiles with hills bad.

High food starts with any civ mean you need to play them with a different mindset. With high food starts, you either want to

1. Find a high production site for your main production city
2. Grow as high a population as you can quickly - More science early on can offset the lack of production and avoid wonders that are iffy
3. Use Trade Ships/Caravans to quickly populate your cities and don't be afraid to run a deficit. You want to grow as tall as possible. The +15% production follower belief will be useful for this. Remember, once you get a workshop in your high production city you can send hammers to your other cities

Plenty of MPers actually love high food and lack of hammer starts - You just can't use those cities though as you typically would as mentioned. Don't be afraid to leave jungles uncut on hills

You could like, you know spend 5-6 turns migrating your settler away from jungle to more temperate zone.. if you are lucky you can even find natural wonders.

It's gotta be where and how you start. There's little difference with hammers one civ to the next. I mean, what do you propose is different?

Adjuvant said:

There's little difference with hammers one civ to the next.

Click to expand...

This isn't the case, as Brazil is biased to start in jungle which is horrible for hammers.

VainoValkea said:

This isn't the case, as Brazil is biased to start in jungle which is horrible for hammers.

Click to expand...

Ok, I don't dissect the game script as some people do, so I may be way off base. I just play the game. But truly, someone who knows, is there a jungle bias start or is it a grassland bias start?

To your opinion, I've started half jungle in multiplayer with different civs and been frustrated it takes me an extra 8-10 turns to "turn my production on". I know what you mean there. But I'd really like to know, truly.

Is there such a thing as "jungle bias" or is it "grassland bias".

There are starting location biases. Venice, for example, always starts on the coast, Arabia is more likely to start near a desert, Celts near a forest etc.

VainoValkea said:

There are starting location biases. Venice, for example, always starts on the coast, Arabia is more likely to start near a desert, Celts near a forest etc.

Click to expand...

Yes, start bias. From someone who is familiar with the script tho. Is Brazil "grassland bias" or what?

Jungle bias, as far as I know.

Is there such a thing as jungle bias? Can you cite this in script?

Aztecs have had jungle bias since vanilla, what's so weird about that now?

Adjuvant said:

Is there such a thing as jungle bias? Can you cite this in script?

Click to expand...

Yes.


..\Assets\DLC\Expansion2\Gameplay\XML\Civilizations\CIV5Civilizations_Expansion2.xml

ok i stand corrected. i thought it was only grassland. thank you.

anyway, learn bronze working and mine hills.

Yeh they're production sucks because of the jungle. In my current game I made the mistake of going wide as well. I did this because I took Liberty to get the GE to rush build Chichen Itza.

I've struggled with production, science and happiness all game and missed most of the key wonders. I haven't had one Carnival either. Messed it up rather badly.

I should still win a culture or diplomatic victory (only playing on King) despite this because I lead the world in tourism - got a lot of artifacts, great artists etc and have adopted Order with the Hero of the People tenet for added great person production - it will also help tourism to other Order civs shortly but I could have made it a lot easier by going tall.

The other problem I have is that I want to smash the Inca a bit - they've got a lot of artifacts etc that I want to steal in the so called "Mussolini" approach to cultural victory but my production is so bad I can't actually build an army in time.

EDIT:

I'm going to try them again as soon as I finish this game - go with a Tradition/Piety start and go tall to maximise my production and science earlier. Hopefully will get to Leaning tower first - use the great engineer for Sistine Chapel or Globe Theatre and try and build Uffizi and Louvre instead of just relying on jungle and Brazilwood camps.

they start slow but when they explode they explode big time. If you keep a ton of jungle you even have extra beakers lying around everywhere to catch up where you fell behind on.

I just give up on the earliest wonders and use some trade routes to shuffle hammers when I am more caught up tech wise.

I was struggling a bit too. Beeline to NC, then go back down the tech route for workshops, or wait till university to do this. Try and found a second or third city in an area with better hammer opportunities, and you can use an internal caravan from the capital to provide even more hammers. Build iron works in this city, and use the capital for population/science/gold/GWAM production. Run an engi specialist in the capital to get GEs. It may be a change of pace, but you will probably have to forget about all ancient/classical wonders.

tbh, I'm not sure if it's better just to go all the way to university before going back for metal casting. In my last game I didn't get to architecture first, which was annoying. I haven't tried this enough yet.

Brazil doesn't really take off until you've got universities and machinery, but at that point you will be on the road to catching up and taking over in tech.

Haven't tried them yet but. they'll probably most dangerous enemy in late game.