Rat44 CCM - Ultimate Challenge

Played a few turns tonight.

A quick update: We bought the two tech and actually had a trade with Britain with us throwing in the rest of our gpt (before MM) to get Engineering. We are researching clockwork, which isn't yet known to the AI (which tells you our free tech).
We were equal in tech with Britain, and one tech behind 2 civs. The rest knew the 3 reachable techs other than clockwork.

I am mostly defending against the Mongolian hordes. Ulaangom is surrounded by hills AND a river crossing so attack is only reasonable in some situations. We may go on the offensive fairly soon. It looks like they may be petering out.
 
Sounds good. :goodjob: Getting a second tech for our free one is a big break.
 
nice news :D

Good to let the Mongols waste all their units. I am sure they enjoy their GA with the Mongol wonder
 
Preturn:
Babylon is cheaper than the rest so I go with 138 gpt and some gold. We go to the next era and get Theology which England doesn't have. We trade for engineering though we have to throw in 21 gpt and 247 gold leaving us with very little (15 gold and 1 gpt).

We now equal England and 2 civs are 1 tech ahead of us. The others are 3 techs ahead. No civ has the 4th tech of clockwork which we are now researching.

Looks like we could lose 2 Enslavers next turn. I would try to avoid attacks that leave them in the open because they are still useful for us.

I switched 2 cities to Pikes. We don't even have cover for 2 worker stacks.

IBT: A Cavalry and Spearman lost. Spear killed in Vitoria and we are down to 1 unit.
We get 2 Pike, War Elephant and Knight to help us out.
The Enslavers were not attacked even though they would have been easy kills.

750 AD: Victoria could be a problem. We have one unit and noone can reach in time. We just have to hope the unit got too injured to attack again. I can't attack out because I don't know where the attacker is. A supply Caravan actually feels it makes a difference. However, I also spend the cash to rush walls in the new town. It doesn't look secure.

IBT: Our single unit in Victoria red-lines but we win. Probably very lucky as the town would be Greece if we lost.

775 AD: Defend Victoria. Only use Catapults to attack into the hills otherwise I simply defend. Ulaangom is surrounded by hills so its hard to attack out.

IBT: Large Mongolian attack on ulaangom making the rushed walls a good investment. We lose 2 Pikes, but the rest of hordes are held off.

800 AD: Defend again, they have some Trebuchets but they are very well defended.
We are running low on cash (negative gpt) so I switch towns to some windmills rather than units for a bit. Want to build those some time in any case.

IBT: Two ancient Cavalry lost. Otherwise we do well. Our Pike is now Elite.
Sacred Music and Doggie Palace completed by Russia.

825 AD: The speed 1 and older units are near our town. .

IBT: We get a leader on defense. Kaaba and Art of Islam are completed. Buddistic Art is the only W Wonder still being built that we know about.

850 AD: Number of units is less now. Start moving some units in the direction of Bulgan. Both the closest two towns are on hills. Don't use the leader yet as our Windmill completes in 1.

IBT: Several attacks on Ulaangum. Lose a Pike.

875 AD Use Leader for the Great Monastary. We move on Bulgan and Capture it.
Also moved a Pike onto the Iron to prevent them connecting it (it was already roaded but when I move on, its not connected.
A Spear kills our Catapult near Ulaangom. That is our only attack there (spear has same number of HP and the rest of the attacks are less good.

Several Windmills complete this turn which will allow for more units starting next turn.

IBT: Japanese complete Buddhistic Art

900 AD: Fully move to Bulgan. Needs a road.

IBT: Japan demands all our cash. Decide we really need the happiness and it will allow us to take out the Japanese town nearby so I refuse. They do declare. Vatican and Potala Palace built.

925 AD: I don't like how Greece is moving. I set up for better defense and switch builds to Pikes just in case. Move some units.

Tech:
Our neighbors, Mongols and Greeks have Alchemy above us.
Other Civs (3?) have Sacred art as well
Rest have Navigation too.
Unfortunately, we can't afford anything.

The WW helps a lot at putting citizens to work. Lets hope it worth the rush later on.

IBT: Greece is not attacking which is good for us. However, we are bit strong in case they do. Maybe not strong enough though with our large front.

950 AD: Lose a Pike to an Invisble unit which I then kill.
We do badly losing 3 attacks flailing against 2 keshik.

IBT: We do well and win several battles vs Pikes on the Mongol front. Mongols have more Keshik again.

975 AD: We are thinking of advancing. There are 2 stacks doing so. Its partly a test to see if the Mongols react. In one case a road to allow us to get past the hills.


Notes:
I am not so fond of the movements I made on the last turn. I don't think we had enough troops for two advances and I would have done better to do only one. Feel free to change completely.

I wanted a road to get over the mountains. Keshiks moving through mountain squares as 1 and us not able to get past the mountains makes it tricky. Thus the road

We have 10 turns until we get our cash back.

We may need a bit more strength on the north shore for landings by Japan. None have occurred but some ships showed up I think the are bombardment for now, but I can't be positive.

 
Sounds like a rough going. Let's hope Greek doesn't sneak attack us or we have a two front war.

If Greece does attack us, I'd say maybe get some more Mongol towns for peace and then turn our attention to Greece and take them out. Sooner or later that southern foe has to go anyway.
 
The Roster:
ThERat - on deck
Northern Pike
Greebley
Elephantium
CommandoBob - up
 
Fine work wearing down the Mongols. :thumbsup: We're listed as strong relative to them now, so we can definitely take the offensive and start scooping up their cities. I wouldn't automatically grant the Mongols peace even if the Greeks do attack, since it would be maddening to do the work of pushing them to the brink all over again.

It's good finally to have the Great Monastery, too.

The main complication at the moment is that we also have to put together a force to take Sapporo quickly, so that we can get peace in that war whenever we need it.

We should mine at least one plains tile at Washington to get the city to one-turn knight production (50 spt) as soon as possible.

I'd rather build a granary in Toronto than a regular pikeman. The town needs normal development, and if more pikemen are wanted to watch the Greeks we can send a couple of veterans east from our core.

It appears that we're receiving mediaeval inf not only from our own Royal Garrison in New York, but from the one the Canadians built in Thunder Bay. Is that meant to happen, Civinator?
 
Got it; working on a strategy post.

I am worried about a sneak Greek attack, too.
 
I agree with taking one or 2 Japanese towns so we get a good peace deal if need be.
 
The regular Pike was an oversight. It should be switched. We are fairly close to being able to have a decent chance of surviving a Greek attack now, given the AI's unorganized attack skill.

I agree getting the Japanese city should be soon. I am not sure if the forces are large enough to take Tsetzerleg. You could take that first and then Japanese town if they are judged enough. Otherwise just fall back and go for Japan first.

It would be nice to take out Tsetzerleg is that currently Keshiks not on screen can attack our city of Ulaangom. I think the forests around Tsetzerleg would be nicer than Ulaangom's hills.
 
I agree--having gotten a strike force so close to Tsetserleg, we might as well make the attack. It is a modest stack, but it might be sufficient to take one city, and if we fail it won't be a disaster.

I wouldn't think of trying to push the small stack outside Bulgan right into the Mongol heartland, though. Three or four covering pikes and eight to ten real attack units (excluding slavers) would be more like it. I'd suggest the Bulgan stack can form the nucleus of the force we send to Sapporo.
 
Concur with NP...do not move the stack into Mongol heartland, rather attack via their flanks
 
Monarchy
700% Tax
0% Science
30% Luxury

31 gold, -1 gpt

Clockwork in 40 turns.


City Builds
  1. Washington (17) vKnight in 1, grows in 2.
  2. Montréal (9) Castle in 13, grows in 1.
  3. Toronto (4) rPike in 5, grows in 1.
  4. Vancouver (10) vPike in 2, grows in 5 (1 clown)
  5. New York (12) vKnight in 2, grows in 6.
  6. Calgary (9) aqueduct in 19, grows in 1 (1 geek and 1 clown).
  7. Edmonton (4) Town Center in 10, grows in 3 (1 taxman).
  8. Boston (13) vPike in 1, grows in 7.
  9. Winnipeg (10) aqueduct in 7, grows in 10.
  10. Ottawa (5) Castle in 13, grows in 4.
  11. Halifax (6) Castle in 11, grows in 4.
  12. Quebec (5) Castle in 25, grows in 1.
  13. Vicotria (6) Castle in 15, grows in 5.
  14. Regina (7) Windmill in 4, grows in 5.
  15. Thunder Bay (7) vPike in 6, grows in 4.
  16. Charlottetown (4) Granary in 3, grows in 10.
  17. Philadelphia (13) vKnight in 1, grows in 4.
  18. Mississuaga (6) vKnight in 4, grows in 2.
  19. Bulgan (2) walls in 4, grows in 7.
  20. Fredericton (6) Castle in 11, grows in 4.
  21. Surrey (5) Town Center in 4, grows in 2.
  22. Gatineau (11) vPike in 1, grows in 10.
  23. Ulaangom (1) Castle in 27, grows in 7.
  24. Atlanta (13) vKnight in 1, grows in 3.

City Build Recap
vKnight [5]
Castle [7]
rPike [1] (Toronto)
vPike [4]
Aqueduct [2]
Town Center [2]
Windmill [A (Regina)
Granary [1] (Charlottetown)
Walls [1] (Bulgan)

Resources
01 Ivory
01 Iron
01 Horses

Luxuries
01 Furs

Military
  • 01 Worker
  • 03 Warrior
  • 03 Chariot
  • 21 Pike
  • 06 Knight
  • 01 Catapult
  • 03 Maces
  • 01 Trebuchet
  • 07 Ancient Cavalry
  • 26 Move 2 Slave (from civAssist II)
  • 15 Move 1 Slave (manual counting)
  • 05 Enslaver
  • 01 Transport
  • 03 War Elephant
  • 10 Northeuropean Workers
  • 04 Northeuropean Settlers
  • 17 Native Spears
  • 27 Tomahawk warriors
    • Current Units: 113
    • Allowed Units: 076
    • Support Costs: 111 gpt (3gpt/unit)

Turn 140 of 500

Compared to Greece (Theocracy) we are Weak.
Compared to Aztecs (Republic) we are Strong.
Compared to Mongol Khanates (Republic) we are Strong.
Compared to Babylon/Iraq (Monarchy) we are Weak.
Compared to Germany (Republic) we are Average.
Compared to Japan (Monarchy) we are Weak.
Compared to Spain (Monarchy) we are Weak.
Compared to Britian (Republic) we are Average.

City Counts
25 Spain
24 USA (Rat44 people)
17 Babylon/Iraq
17 Britian
17 Germany
17 Mongol Khanates
15 Greece
12 Aztecs
?? Japan


Notes
No Castles will complete this turnset. The closest one is 11 turns out.

Maces defend like Pikes, defense factor of 3. Had not noticed that before.

Six units will be trained next turn, adding 18 gpt to our unit upkeep. Both cities and towns in Monarchy support the same number of units, three, so city growth by itself won't help us reduce unit support costs any. The extra commerce will be helpful, of course.

We are in a cash crunch, with only 30 gold in the bank. At 30% Luxuries we are at -1 gpt. Dropping that to 20% we now gain +42 gpt, but seven cities, including Washington, go cranky. That is not a good first idea.

With five cities producing 2 Knights and Pikes every two turns and one city making 1 turn Pikes, we will soon be in financial trouble. To offset any shortfall, we'll need to add cities, hire taxmen or build markets. We have 4 Northeuorpean settlers and we could use some of them to expand our borders towards Tsetserieg and Sapporo. At the moment 3NW of Ulaangom and/or 3NE of Ulaangom look somewhat promising (not great but doable), execept that they are 2 tiles away from Tsetserieg and Sapporo. Hiring taxmen will work for a bit but slows down city growth and production. Markets cost more than Castles (100 vs. 80) so no quick help there. Town Centers cost only 70; they decrease corruption/waste, which is straightforward enough; not quite sure if the 50% luxury output adds gold or happiness.

Not matter what else, our economy wlll get a lot of attentionn during these turns!

Greek Border Cities Garissons (West to East)
Gatineau: 2 units (vPike, rTHawk)
Victoria: 4 units (vPike, rPike, vWE, vTHawk)
Winnipge: 4 units (vPike, vSpear, vChariot, vTHawk)
Halifax: 5 units (rPike, vSpear, rWE, 2 vTHawk)
Montreal: 2 units (vSpear, vTHawk)
Toronto: 3 units (rPike, vAC, vTHawk)
Edmonton: 3 units (vPike, vSpear, vTrebuchet)
Surrey: 2 units (vSpear, vTHawk)

Would like to add one unit, Pike or Knight, to each city. Not sure if that will happen or not.

Notable Military Units
1W of Ulaangnom: 7 units; 2 AC, 1WE, 2 Knight and 2 Pikes.
1SE of Ulaangnom: 3 units; Settler, Pike, Enslaver.
1W of Bulgan: 24 units; 2 AC, 2 Knight, 1 Chariot, 2 Enslaver, 1 Mace, 1 Pike, 9 Native Workers, 6 Move2 Slaves.

Plans
The 7 unit stack outside Ulaangom doesn't appear to be strong enough to take on Tsetserieg. In two turns we can add 2 Pikes and 2 Knights to that stack and then go greet our neighbors.

The big stack outside Bulgan will head towards Sapporo. But not right away. Since our workers are here, we should at least road this hill and maybe even mine it.

Washington, Atlanta, New York and Boston will send forces fight Mongols and Japan. Gatineau and Philadelphia will focus on beefing up the Greek border forces.

Might build one or two cities to help with unit support but this seems like the wrong fix for unit support, especially if we can capture cities and have the same effect.

Worker Tasks
Have stack 1W-1SW of Washington, mining, 2 turns. Once done, they will change an irrigated plains into mined plains for Washington, to give us 1 turn Knights.

Stack 1S-1SE of Mississauga: after mining, road 2 tiles eastward, to give more direct access to Montreal (bypasses Halifax).

Stack 1NE of Edmonton: chop the Fur forest for Edmonton's Town Center? And maybe other chops for Surrey after it completes its Town Center? Improve after chopping, of course (road and mine). Will not road the Furs, unless we need it as trade bait.

Next City Builds (Proposed Preflight Changes in Bold)
  1. Washington: vKnights.
  2. Montréal: Castle in 13, no change.
  3. Toronto : rPike in 5 -> Town Center in 15
  4. Vancouver: vPike in 2 -> Town Center in 8, then back to vPikes.
  5. New York: vKnights.
  6. Calgary: aqueduct in 19, no change.
  7. Edmonton; Town Center in 10, no change.
  8. Boston: vPikes.
  9. Winnipeg: aqueduct in 7, then vPikes.
  10. Ottawa: Castle in 13, no change.
  11. Halifax: Castle in 11, no change.
  12. Quebec: Castle in 25 -> Town Center in 22.
  13. Vicotria: Castle in 15, no change.
  14. Regina: Windmill in 4 -> Market in 6, then back to Windmill.
  15. Thunder Bay: vPikes.
  16. Charlottetown: Granary in 3, then Town Center.
  17. Philadelphia: vKnights.
  18. Mississuaga: vKnight in 4 -> Market in 7, then back to vKnights.
  19. Bulgan: walls in 4, then American Flag, then Christian Community.
  20. Fredericton: Castle in 11, no change.
  21. Surrey: Town Center in 4, then vPikes for local defense.
  22. Gatineau: vPikes.
  23. Ulaangom: Castle in 27, no change.
  24. Atlanta: vKnights.
 
It appears that we're receiving mediaeval inf not only from our own Royal Garrison in New York, but from the one the Canadians built in Thunder Bay. Is that meant to happen, Civinator?

No, this is not intended. :eek: The Royal Garrison is a Small Wonder and therefore in theory it should always be lost when a city is captured. This sounds like a bug in the game. In the CCM 1.8 biq I will give the garrison an additional 1-culture-point - that in theory also should always raze that building when the city is captured - and hope that the captured Royal Garrison now always will be razed. Thank you very much for reporting this bug. :)
 
Delaying the attack on Tsetserleg two turns to bring up reinforcements sounds like a good idea.

I wouldn't delay the extremely time-sensitive attack on Sapporo for a minor goal like mining Bulgan, though. If we don't beat the Japanese SoD to the Sapporo area we'll have great problems.

Yes, our accumulated settlers will be a great asset eventually and we shouldn't build junk towns just for short-term financial relief.

Battle losses will help our gpt position, of course.

Toronto does need a town centre, but almost nothing comes before a granary in the natural order of CCM builds and I'd stick with that. The granary will give more and quicker financial help, too.

Civinator, thanks for your response.
 
Ya, I was not intending on striking into the Mongols land from Bulgan yet. The force is really to road the square to allow us to hit the mongols before they can attack our city. That square can see 3 squares of road in Mongol lands, so I think it can spot units that would otherwise just appear and attack our city without warning (Keshiks only can do that).

So I would keep a support force including 2 Pikes on that square to allow strikes when its to our advantage.
 
BTW, Thunder Bay has to get its cheap cultural builds done soon, though if you want the pikeman first for added security against the Greeks, that's fine.
 
CommandoBob, it's been almost a week and no status update since your strategy post. It's fine to play slower, but at least let us know what is happening.
 
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