fallout3dc
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2014
- Messages
- 289
Which is the better wonder for happiness and growth potential?
I disagree, first of all opening Patronage is never a bad choice imo. because top 3 policies (opener + first level left and right) are all quite powerful. Opening Aesthetics - why? Secondly, the extra votes from Forbidden Palace is exactly useful in early game because so few other votes are in circulation. FP will secure you right to suggest resolutions until world enters industrial era and city states come into play, and apart from the benefit of controlling one of the resolutions being put up for vote, those two votes combined with a bit of diplomatic leverage is often enough to secure you a world religion if you want to go that way.I'd definitely say Notre Dame. Forbidden Palace requires you to open Patronage at a point where you should be going for Rationalism. I'd even open Aesthetics before Patronage unless I was specifically heading further down the tree.
Notre Dame doesn't actually just give you 10 population, it has the possibility of up to 20 population in your Capital if you went Tradition, or at least two cities if you consider 4 happiness = 1 city to start with. Either way, it gives a lot more happiness than Forbidden Palace which is key in my games. World Congress votes don't really matter early game as you can't even propose any of the useful things (World Ideology), and by the time you can, City States play a much greater role than the 2 votes from Forbidden Palace.
Yes, but ... seriously, how much does Aesthetics really help you in this regard? I mean, opener gives you +25 % artist growth, but how much is that really going to change in the big picture? At least for me, my main contribution towards Tourism only comes once archeology comes into play, and ironically, Aesthetics gives you zero help in this regard.Opening aesthetics is important on non-domination games, because you need that defensive tourism against ideologies. Whether it's more important than opening patronage depends on your city-states.
Yes, but ... seriously, how much does Aesthetics really help you in this regard? I mean, opener gives you +25 % artist growth, but how much is that really going to change in the big picture? At least for me, my main contribution towards Tourism only comes once archeology comes into play, and ironically, Aesthetics gives you zero help in this regard.
I disagree, first of all opening Patronage is never a bad choice imo. because top 3 policies (opener + first level left and right) are all quite powerful. Opening Aesthetics - why? Secondly, the extra votes from Forbidden Palace is exactly useful in early game because so few other votes are in circulation. FP will secure you right to suggest resolutions until world enters industrial era and city states come into play, and apart from the benefit of controlling one of the resolutions being put up for vote, those two votes combined with a bit of diplomatic leverage is often enough to secure you a world religion if you want to go that way.
Consulates? But yeah, if you ONLY want to invest in one policy in the tree, you might be better off with opening Commerce than Patronage, because the flat gold bonus from Commerce is more flexible than the CS discount from Patronage.Opening Patronage does not mean taking the top 3 policies. I'm normally at the Renaissance after 7 policies, meaning 6 in tradition and 1 more somewhere else. While the Patronage opener is reasonably decent, I find that if I'm making enough gold to be spending it on City States, that 20% isn't going to make much of a difference. Opening Patronage has never won me a game is basically what I'm saying. I'd much rather open any of the other trees than Patronage.
If you build FP, you have three votes yourself. On a standard 8 civ map, there will be 3 civs who haven't founded a religion, and you will frequently be able to buy these civs over to your side without too much effort, even more so if you have converted them to your religion. That's 6 votes for you out of the 12 votes in game at this point (asuming you are not yourself host). If just one of the remaining 6 votes is cast on the other resolution, that means you pass World Religion.If you're not founding the World Congress, those extra votes make VERY little difference, as the likelihood is that you'll still be outnumbered if you try to propose anything that might benefit your own situation more than any of the AI's. For example, if you go for World Religion, the likelihood is that at this point in the game, AI religions are just as strong, if not stronger than your own, meaning it'd be voted down like 5 to 3, with the remaining 2 civs putting their votes on the other proposal (On a standard size map, 8 civs).