Upgrading UUs

mappleby285

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Is there a good list that shows which UUs keep their special traits when upgraded? I understand that some of them do and some don't. Like the Chinese since the crossbow eventually upgrades to a rifleman I'm assuming you don't get a rifleman that fires twice. But what about some of the other civilizations? Does the Samurai keep it's bonus for producing GGs faster when upgraded?
 
Is there a good list that shows which UUs keep their special traits when upgraded? I understand that some of them do and some don't. Like the Chinese since the crossbow eventually upgrades to a rifleman I'm assuming you don't get a rifleman that fires twice. But what about some of the other civilizations? Does the Samurai keep it's bonus for producing GGs faster when upgraded?

Bwahhhhh?!?!?! Go get GaK already! Double tap gats!
 
I've only played 2 games on vanilla and I don't play videogames much anymore after getting married so it isn't worth paying $35 for G&K when I can still get so many good playthroughs of the original game.
 
Is there a good list that shows which UUs keep their special traits when upgraded? I understand that some of them do and some don't. Like the Chinese since the crossbow eventually upgrades to a rifleman I'm assuming you don't get a rifleman that fires twice. But what about some of the other civilizations? Does the Samurai keep it's bonus for producing GGs faster when upgraded?

Technically, the Chu-ko-nu does retain its special trait (Logistics) when upgraded to a Rifleman. However, Logistics (the double attack special trait of the Chu-ko-nu) is a promotion used by Ranged units, and since the Rifleman is NOT a Ranged unit, the upgraded Chu-ko-nu effectively loses its double attack.

There's not a list of which Unique Units pass their traits on when Upgraded, but the most important thing to realize about retaining Unique Unit special traits when Upgrading is to realize that the game treats retainable UU special traits the same as promotions.

This leads us to the basic rule of thumb for determining which UU special traits are retained, and which aren't.

A Unique Unit's special trait will be retained when the unit is upgraded IF AND ONLY IF the UU special trait is represented in one of those promotion icons (those little squares in the Unit Status window above Movement Points).

This, in turn, leads to more specific examples.

1. Boosts to numeric stats (Combat Strength, Ranged Strength, Movement) are not passed on when Upgraded. Example: Ballista has more Combat Strength than the Catapult it is based on. Upgrading a Ballista to a Trebuchet will not result in a stronger Trebuchet, because the Ballista's Combat Strength isn't represented as one of those promotion icons.

I'm pretty sure the Legion's ability to build and repair roads isn't retained, because that ability isn't represented as one of those promotion icons.
 
Thank you for clarifying that, mintcandy.

This does seem to present some inequities- as mentioned, the Roman ballista does not upgrade to a stronger trebuchet, but the Ottoman janissary does upgrade to a rifleman that heals 50 points every time it kills an enemy unit (insert evil laugh here).
 
*Says a small prayer*
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RIP mappleby285

Gravestone Dedication: You will have fun again... someday
 
Thank you for clarifying that, mintcandy.

This does seem to present some inequities- as mentioned, the Roman ballista does not upgrade to a stronger trebuchet, but the Ottoman janissary does upgrade to a rifleman that heals 50 points every time it kills an enemy unit (insert evil laugh here).

I think there is one big reason why +x to Combat Strength/+x to Ranged Strength with x never exceeding 5 sucks compared to abilities that don't directly affect the base combat stats, but it isn't because these bonuses aren't retained when Upgraded....I would still not like units like the Ballista and Musketeer even IF they retained their statistical bonuses upon Upgrading them.

The main reason is that increases to Combat Strength/Ranged Strength can be easily duplicated by non Unique Units through early promotions acquired through XP buildings, but non stat related Unique Unit abilities require three to four promotions to duplicate, assuming they can be acquired through promotions.

Now, one could argue that the same was true of Unique Units that only got a strength bonus in Civ IV, which is a valid point to bring up.

However, promotions were rarer in Civ IV than they are in Civ V. Why? Because units are more likely to survive battles to gain experience for promotions in Civ V than they ever were in Civ IV.

If Civ V combat was win or die, then yes, strength bonus Unique Units would be a lot better. Since Civ V combat usually isn't win or die, strength bonus Unique Units have to work very hard to be as useful as Unique Units that have special abilities that require numerous promotions to emulate.
 
the most important thing to realize about retaining Unique Unit special traits when Upgrading is to realize that the game treats retainable UU special traits the same as promotions.

This leads us to the basic rule of thumb for determining which UU special traits are retained, and which aren't.

A Unique Unit's special trait will be retained when the unit is upgraded IF AND ONLY IF the UU special trait is represented in one of those promotion icons (those little squares in the Unit Status window above Movement Points).
.

Not true. Quite a few "promotions" do not carry over with upgrades. The Carthage elephant UU fear -10% ability, for example.

Anyway, I use this:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=19946
 
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